GOGSoc Episode V: The GOG Strikes Back

Reply 1180

Piggsil

16

the_alba

x

So sorry

Reply 1181

the_alba

12

Original post

by sj27

oh no...

so sorry.

Original post

by Becca

So sorry

It's okay. Sorry for the rant :redface:

It *is* just very horrible how this keeps happening. People like to feel in control of their lives, and as an academic with no-one 'helping' you, one just doesn't feel in control at all. It's an unpleasant feeling. He hasn't done anything wrong. Oh well. I probably would have been deported from the US anyway for rescuing piglets from NC's many hog farms or something.

Reply 1182

Craghyrax

17

Sorry to hear that.

Original post

by sj27

Popping a motion sickness pill, or chewing some ginger and/or mint seems an easy solution...?

I've been meaning to but I keep forgetting.

Original post

by scarlet ibis

Apparently, the paper I wrote is only a few tweaks and a little extra section away from submission standard. This came as a bit of a shock! It also means that I have to decide what my name is going to be for the rest of my academic life. This may sound trivial but I have a double barelled first name and so have a choice between a name that's standard and easy to spell or memorable and susceptible to mispronounciations/mis-spelling. Hmm.

Well done! That must be a good feeling.
I had the supervision on the first draft of my first chapter today, which I also want to publish as a side paper. Unfortunately it wasn't nearly as flawless as yours and will need a lot more work. However the good thing is that they really liked all of the second half which was on my favourite theorist, and it was just the first half that needs mending. And also I think the sorts of changes needed are things I know how to do, rather than impossibly hard. Plus I wrote the 'first draft' overnight in an 18 hour stretch, so obviously it wasn't going to be brilliant.
If anything I'm surprised that they like the second half so much, since that's the bit which was generated between 3am and 9am :lol:

Original post

by The Lyceum

What do female academics who marry do in general? I'm guessing continue writing under their maiden name?

Dave and I are joining our surnames. I hope this would mean that if I did publish something under my current name I would still be recognisable with my new, double-barrelled name.

I'm a bit confused why people seem so worried about losing their record under a particular name? Surely for jobs and things you'd put it all on your CV and the person reading it would work out that you'd gotten married?

Original post

by flying plum

I mentioned once to my other half that, if we ever got married, i probably wouldn't change my name. He got really offended and upset, and we've never discussed it again :s-smilie:

I don't really understand why....I think he just thinks I'm being difficult, and just rejecting 'tradition' for the sake of it...

I think your partner is being a little bit silly. Now that you've planted the idea hopefully he'll have gone away and thought about it a bit more and realised that its completely normal and that he's having a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.
My fiance was willing to change to my name if I wished it, although on discussion it turned out that both of us had a sense of attachment to our present names. We felt it would be really unfair for either of us to impose our names on the other, and that each of us had an equal right to holding on to it.

Oh and I'm totally with you on the frustration of house hunting and work. That's actually one of the biggest reasons I'm so upset by having to move again so soon. The last thing I want is the distraction of looking for houses and sorting out viewings and things while I'm trying to prepare for my transferring up!

Reply 1183

hobnob

14

Original post

by Craghyrax

Dave and I are joining our surnames.

'Motzig'?

Edit: Sorry, I should have explained: a blend of your two surnames sounds like a regional German word meaning 'ill-tempered and given to complaining'. :wink:

Reply 1184

apotoftea

OP

19

Original post

by the_alba

David didn't get the NC job :cry2:

Sorry to hear that :hugs:

Reply 1185

Craghyrax

17

Original post

by hobnob

'Motzig'?

Reply 1186

hobnob

14

Original post

by Craghyrax

No,

is the smiley you're looking for...

Reply 1187

flying plum

14

Original post

by Craghyrax

I think your partner is being a little bit silly. Now that you've planted the idea hopefully he'll have gone away and thought about it a bit more and realised that its completely normal and that he's having a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.
My fiance was willing to change to my name if I wished it, although on discussion it turned out that both of us had a sense of attachment to our present names. We felt it would be really unfair for either of us to impose our names on the other, and that each of us had an equal right to holding on to it.

Well, I'm not sure I would class it as 'silly', but he isn't minded the same way as I am, or many of the people on here. He's not an academic, and does particularly like to over analyse things, and the idea of power dynamics, historic or otherwise are me being silly and overanalysing. I think, to him, changing your name is somehow a symbol of love, commitment etc etc. I pointed out that it was actually a symbol of ownership that I didn't want to really subscribe to (just as I don't really want my dad to walk me down the aisle), but he just sees this as overthinking something that he sees as a 'nice tradition'. I questioned why, if it's such a sign of love or committment, he wouldn't take my name. 'That's not how it's done', apparently, and 'why do I always have to question everything'.

I wonder why we've been together so long, sometimes :biggrin:

Oh, and as for him going away and thinking about it - I think the whole argument (which took place almost three years ago now) was never really to do with changing names. If we want to overanalyse, it was also a lot to do with some insecurity and subsequent control issues that he had, which have been quietly eroded by me over the years. The same argument pops up frequently whenever I challenge anything in the status quo (eg. another frequent one is my veganism). It's just the way he is, and he has many other redeeming features, I can forgive the inability to engage in critical analysis or an engagement with feminist theory :smile:

Reply 1188

Cora Lindsay

10

Original post

by Craghyrax

Dave and I are joining our surnames. I hope this would mean that if I did publish something under my current name I would still be recognisable with my new, double-barrelled name.

I'm a bit confused why people seem so worried about losing their record under a particular name? Surely for jobs and things you'd put it all on your CV and the person reading it would work out that you'd gotten married?

Errrr...no! It matters a lot in things like RAE or its satanic successor, REF. These will look at daft metrics like publication lists and citation rates and this information will be generated by computerised searching. I don't think it is smart enough to keep up with name changes. In the past it has missed papers where an author has omitted their initial- thus it sees A B Cook and A Cook as different people, even when the addresses are the same.

Reply 1189

The Lyceum

13

At first I didn't want my girlfriend to take my name. Then she said she didn't want to take it, so now I want her to take it...

Reply 1190

*Corinna*

16

Original post

by The Lyceum

At first I didn't want my girlfriend to take my name. Then she said she didn't want to take it, so now I want her to take it...

at first I didn't mind taking my bf's name, then he said he wanted me to take it (because "it shows ownership") and now I don't want to take it.

Reply 1191

Drogue

19

Original post

by flying plum

Well, I'm not sure I would class it as 'silly', but he isn't minded the same way as I am, or many of the people on here. He's not an academic, and does particularly like to over analyse things, and the idea of power dynamics, historic or otherwise are me being silly and overanalysing. I think, to him, changing your name is somehow a symbol of love, commitment etc etc. I pointed out that it was actually a symbol of ownership that I didn't want to really subscribe to (just as I don't really want my dad to walk me down the aisle), but he just sees this as overthinking something that he sees as a 'nice tradition'. I questioned why, if it's such a sign of love or committment, he wouldn't take my name. 'That's not how it's done', apparently, and 'why do I always have to question everything'.

Even if thought about critically, there is the issue that the guy taking the girl's name raises questions from people, precisely because it's unusual. Were it not for social stigma I'd have had no issue taking Helen's name, but I'd rather not open myself to that many comments, jokes and assumptions from people.

It's such a hard problem in modern times. I'm no fan of double-barrelled surnames, and that gets worse a generation later as going triple- or quadruple-barrelled seems pretty silly. Keeping separate names presents the problem of which the kids take, and somehow it seems like less of a family if you have different surnames. Which leaves two options that I'd have been ok with: the girl takes the guys name (tradition making it common enough not to lead to assumptions) or they create a new surname for the new family. Helen didn't like the latter idea, though she'd decided she wanted to take my name before it was suggested as an idea. In fact, the first time we ever discussed this was Helen telling me she'd like to take my surname. I hadn't really thought about it before that, I was too preoccupied with proposing and then being generally excitable :o:

I didn't want something to show ownership, I just wanted something to show we were a family but that wouldn't get commented on or lead to assumptions whenever anyone found out. Sadly there aren't too many options for this.

Reply 1192

Hylean

15

Just do what the Icelanders do and not have surnames and just make the last name a patronym or matronym. So much easier.

Reply 1193

Piggsil

16

Original post

by Hylean

Just do what the Icelanders do and not have surnames and just make the last name a patronym or matronym. So much easier.

I love this idea. Rebecca Annesdottir :awesome:

Reply 1194

flying plum

14

Original post

by Drogue

Even if thought about critically, there is the issue that the guy taking the girl's name raises questions from people, precisely because it's unusual. Were it not for social stigma I'd have had no issue taking Helen's name, but I'd rather not open myself to that many comments, jokes and assumptions from people.

It's such a hard problem in modern times. I'm no fan of double-barrelled surnames, and that gets worse a generation later as going triple- or quadruple-barrelled seems pretty silly. Keeping separate names presents the problem of which the kids take, and somehow it seems like less of a family if you have different surnames. Which leaves two options that I'd have been ok with: the girl takes the guys name (tradition making it common enough not to lead to assumptions) or they create a new surname for the new family. Helen didn't like the latter idea, though she'd decided she wanted to take my name before it was suggested as an idea. In fact, the first time we ever discussed this was Helen telling me she'd like to take my surname. I hadn't realluy thought about it before that, I was too preoccupied with proposing and then being generally excitable :o:

I didn't want something to show ownership, I just wanted something to show we were a family but that wouldn't get commented on or lead to assumptions whenever anyone found out. Sadly there aren't too many options for this.

Regards him taking my name, I wasnt serious, and yes I take your point. Also, what you're saying about 'being a family' is I think a lot of what he means by wanting to keep with tradition. I think, for him, it's an easy way to show the world
that you've taken the step to get married. I understand that, and there is, if I'm honest, part of me that likes that. But the other part of me doesn't,because of the history; I think what he finds hard is that I'm his view it isn't about ownership anymore, so why am i making a cuss over nothing? In the end, I'll prob keep my name as professionally I have some publications under my name now.

Reply 1195

Feefifofum

16

Sorry Alba :frown:

That's a really rough situation.Your line about being deported for rescuing pigs made me smile though! :biggrin:

Original post

by scarlet ibis

Yes, now I am going into academia at least for a while, I will be publishing under my 'maiden' name even if I get married. It's a tradition in my .family, as my mum kept her name (and not just because she had a PhD). FTB gets a thwack if he says 'now you're going to be Dr Ibis that means you can keep your name'. I can keep it anyway, dammit!

I just tried to double-barrel your names in my head. Yours-His sounds like a kitchen caddy you'd buy from Lakeland, and His-Yours sounds like a Dickens character!

Reply 1196

The Lyceum

13

It's all about external show really. When I think about it in depth I can't even see the point in getting married. I don't think it's the right move for me. Either way I shall remain Mr The Lyceum anyway.

Reply 1197

the_alba

12

Thanks fi and potty and craggy. I'm not overly gutted that I won't be moving to NC: the change would have been really fun for a while, but there would have been problems - my visa, moving the cats, my work prospects, etc.

It's the personal disppointment for David that is so crappy, because it's turned into such a pattern. I remember ranting on here when he got rejected after his previous interview - at his alma mater, the famous university in Dublin - in favour of someone with one article and demonstrably less knowlege and experience and everything else, who'd only just finished his DPhil. It was crap and he is still in formal negotiations with them about an official complaint.

Now history has repeated itself, because again the other two candidates were demonstrably junior to him (even the one who is older than him is much more junior career-wise). He has had the feedback, which was that he performed 'magnificently' and was the favourite candidate of a large proportion of staff, including the Departmental Chair. But one head was obviously against him (D noticed that this guy was making no attempt to engage with him at interview or at the dinners, and didn't even ask him any questions at any point. He just didn't want to know). It is unfortunate that D's ex-girlfriend, who is a *ahem* very difficult person *ahem* currently works there and would have had a lot to say about why no-one should give him a job.

The whole thing seems, like with Dublin, both poisonously political, deeply unfair, and objectively iffy. So, another formal complaint will have to be launched, if only to find out what actually happened.

Edit: I realise talk of complaints might make us seem uppity and entitled: we're not like that at all. If he loses fairly to similarly qualified or better qualified candidates that is totally fine and correct and would be a result he could be happy with. But when a job asks for one thing and then hires much less qualified candidates, we feel it's important to question these things.

Reply 1198

Kitty Pimms

17

Original post

by Feefifofum

Sorry Alba :frown:

That's a really rough situation.Your line about being deported for rescuing pigs made me smile though! :biggrin:

I just tried to double-barrel your names in my head. Yours-His sounds like a kitchen caddy you'd buy from Lakeland, and His-Yours sounds like a Dickens character!

The 'yours-his', new from JML! Now you can put away ALL your kitchen utensils in this stackable draw unit!

Edit - Alba, that is beyond awful. I can't believe that happened. Much as I usually defend academia against claims that it's a unique bastion of elitism and plotting, there are points when I'm forced to conclude that this **** just doesn't happen anywhere else.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 1199

hobnob

14

Original post

by the_alba

Now history has repeated itself, because again the other two candidates were demonstrably junior to him (even the one who is older than him is much more junior career-wise). He has had the feedback, which was that he performed 'magnificently' and was the favourite candidate of a large proportion of staff, including the Departmental Chair. But one head was obviously against him (D noticed that this guy was making no attempt to engage with him at interview or at the dinners, and didn't even ask him any questions at any point. He just didn't want to know). It is unfortunate that D's ex-girlfriend, who is a *ahem* very difficult person *ahem* currently works there and would have had a lot to say about why no-one should give him a job.

'Don't hire him, he always leaves his socks lying around, and he snores! Also, I'm pretty sure I once heard him express a preference for eating puppies for breakfast.' :wink:

Seriously, though, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. :frown:

GOGSoc Episode V: The GOG Strikes Back

Related discussions

Articles for you

How The Student Room is moderated