This discussion is now closed.
Check out other Related discussions
is this unfair dismissal?
After attempting suicide in late April, I have been given 4 weeks off work by my GP as we both agreed that I would benefit from this. I have now been diagnosed with severe depression.
I returned to work on Saturday, and I checked the rotas and I saw that I have been put in to work on a Sunday, I mentioned it to my manager as I told him months ago that I am unable to work on Sundays anymore and he replied to me saying 'you can't afford to me so picky with your shifts when you have been off ill for so long, it's not on' I was very shocked by his reply up to a point where I rang in sick the following shift because I felt so stressed out, and unfortunately he was the one to answer the phone and his reply was 'what even is wrong with you? we will need to have a serious talk about this during your next shift.' I think he wants to dismiss me, but would this class as unfair dismissal? I have only worked here since January this year if that changes anything...
Thank you for any help in advanced
I returned to work on Saturday, and I checked the rotas and I saw that I have been put in to work on a Sunday, I mentioned it to my manager as I told him months ago that I am unable to work on Sundays anymore and he replied to me saying 'you can't afford to me so picky with your shifts when you have been off ill for so long, it's not on' I was very shocked by his reply up to a point where I rang in sick the following shift because I felt so stressed out, and unfortunately he was the one to answer the phone and his reply was 'what even is wrong with you? we will need to have a serious talk about this during your next shift.' I think he wants to dismiss me, but would this class as unfair dismissal? I have only worked here since January this year if that changes anything...
Thank you for any help in advanced
Scroll to see replies
It is perfectly within your bosses rights to fire you at this point. I don't mean to worry you, I'm just telling you the facts.
First of all you haven't been working there for long, and for a month of that time you have been off. Most places have a certain period in which their new staff must show full commitment. Through no fault of your own, you haven't.
Your manager could count that as a warning - something which is necessary for him to be able to fire you due to absences. The fact that you rang in sick really did not go in your favour.
Are you part of a union? If so you should speak to them.
If not, the best thing you could do is bring in all the information about your illness and be as hands-on with work as you can be. Taking shifts off isn't going to help you.
First of all you haven't been working there for long, and for a month of that time you have been off. Most places have a certain period in which their new staff must show full commitment. Through no fault of your own, you haven't.
Your manager could count that as a warning - something which is necessary for him to be able to fire you due to absences. The fact that you rang in sick really did not go in your favour.
Are you part of a union? If so you should speak to them.
If not, the best thing you could do is bring in all the information about your illness and be as hands-on with work as you can be. Taking shifts off isn't going to help you.
Have you been upfront with them about the problems? If so it could be a little more tricky. Depression is covered under the DDA, but if they don't know about it, then how are they supposed to support you? Its time to be open and upfront about things. If they do know about the problems, and the extent of them, then it does amount to discrimination. It doesn't matter how long you've been there. If they don't know, it can hardly be called discrimination if, to the best of their knowledge, there isn't a big problem apart from you being ill a lot.
You need to have a conversation with your boss about things and about how best to support you. If you do get fired, then it amounts to disability discrimination and you could take it further
You need to have a conversation with your boss about things and about how best to support you. If you do get fired, then it amounts to disability discrimination and you could take it further
Original post by Kabloomybuzz
Have you been upfront with them about the problems? If so it could be a little more tricky. Depression is covered under the DDA, but if they don't know about it, then how are they supposed to support you?
It depends on how long the depression has lasted.
You may as well quit. Sounds like you can't really commit due to your illness and it also sounds like your boss is losing patience. I know it's not your fault but companies are like that. You're a dead weight to them. If it proves that I'm not just denigrating depression, my dad was made homeless and his employer gave him a month off. After the month there was still some problems and they terminated his contract.
Original post by OU Student
It depends on how long the depression has lasted.
There isn't a time limit. The DDA definition of a disability is a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long term effect on your ability to do your job. That's quite subjective. 4 weeks off work is a long time when you think about it and it says its substantial.
Saying that, I wonder if the OP had kept their employer informed that they would have been able t cut down on hours a bit rather than taking all that time off??
Original post by Kabloomybuzz
You need to have a conversation with your boss about things and about how best to support you. If you do get fired, then it amounts to disability discrimination and you could take it further
It only necessarily amounts to discrimination if there is proof that it was impossible for OP to go into work for that entire time. And it is covered by DDA but only as a medical term, not a legal term. HIV, MS and cancer are the only medically treatable disabilities that are covered under all circumstances (I believe, my info may be outdated) from diagnosis onwards. All other conditions will have to be examined in each individual case by a judge.
Depression is a tricky one as it is only in respect to the person who is suffering. So one word against another. It would be discrimination, for example, if OP got fired for leaving work after notifying them in due time that they had to leave work to go to counselling. It is not discrimination if it is seen that OP could have gone into work but didn't, which is why the whole skipping shifts because they were scared will certainly not bow in their favour.
Trust me, I am absolutely sympathetic towards the OP, but if they get fired then there is hardly any chance a court will consider this as unfair dismissal.
Original post by LittleRedMonster
It only necessarily amounts to discrimination if there is proof that it was impossible for OP to go into work for that entire time. And it is covered by DDA but only as a medical term, not a legal term. HIV, MS and cancer are the only medically treatable disabilities that are covered under all circumstances (I believe, my info may be outdated) from diagnosis onwards. All other conditions will have to be examined in each individual case by a judge.
Depression is a tricky one as it is only in respect to the person who is suffering. So one word against another. It would be discrimination, for example, if OP got fired for leaving work after notifying them in due time that they had to leave work to go to counselling. It is not discrimination if it is seen that OP could have gone into work but didn't, which is why the whole skipping shifts because they were scared will certainly not bow in their favour.
Trust me, I am absolutely sympathetic towards the OP, but if they get fired then there is hardly any chance a court will consider this as unfair dismissal.
Depression is a tricky one as it is only in respect to the person who is suffering. So one word against another. It would be discrimination, for example, if OP got fired for leaving work after notifying them in due time that they had to leave work to go to counselling. It is not discrimination if it is seen that OP could have gone into work but didn't, which is why the whole skipping shifts because they were scared will certainly not bow in their favour.
Trust me, I am absolutely sympathetic towards the OP, but if they get fired then there is hardly any chance a court will consider this as unfair dismissal.
I know what you're saying, the DDA is very subjective, as it must be, and whether the OP would have a case under it is circumstantial, which is why I've asked how much their employer knows about the depression.
Saying that, if the doctor has actually signed them off as unfit for work for that time and the OP has provided work with the form, it gives the OP a stronger case and the employer less of a case to dismiss at this point.
Original post by Kabloomybuzz
I know what you're saying, the DDA is very subjective, as it must be, and whether the OP would have a case under it is circumstantial, which is why I've asked how much their employer knows about the depression.
Saying that, if the doctor has actually signed them off as unfit for work for that time and the OP has provided work with the form, it gives the OP a stronger case and the employer less of a case to dismiss at this point.
Saying that, if the doctor has actually signed them off as unfit for work for that time and the OP has provided work with the form, it gives the OP a stronger case and the employer less of a case to dismiss at this point.
It also depends on how large the business is that OP is working for. Whether or not they can actually afford a worker to be off sick for that long.
Usually though, a court will not rule in favour unless the depression has been having a major effect on the person's life for about a year, then it is classed as a disability, as it can be deemed as chronic. The fact that OPs doctor suggested time off with a note may hold as some kind of evidence if OP decided to take it to court, but the fact that it is very short term, they have skipped work and that they may not have made it clear to their boss what was going on will not go in their favour. Any other absences will also hinder chances of a tribunal going in OPs favour. It would be necessary to prove that the depression made OP unable to complete tasks that were necessary for their job.
If, however, OP was deemed incapable of working at that job (as they are for not showing up due to the depression itself rather than any medical commitment such as counselling and skipping) then their boss is completely within their rights to fire them.
Original post by Kabloomybuzz
There isn't a time limit. The DDA definition of a disability is a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long term effect on your ability to do your job. That's quite subjective. 4 weeks off work is a long time when you think about it and it says its substantial.
Saying that, I wonder if the OP had kept their employer informed that they would have been able t cut down on hours a bit rather than taking all that time off??
Saying that, I wonder if the OP had kept their employer informed that they would have been able t cut down on hours a bit rather than taking all that time off??
There is a time limit, with a few exceptions. The OP doesn't fit that exception.
The "long term effect" means it has to have lasted for at least 12 months.
(edited 10 years ago)
I've been off work since March with depression, I've suffered for 4 years and it comes back in waves. I work for the nhs, and as yet have not been fired! I think if you ate honest with your work you could possible get away with unfair dismissal as you've not had any meetings to discuss hoe to improve etc.., I've had meetings each month with my employer and a return to work plan, so that if I falter they can say they tried!
Depression is a difficult one from experience as so many dont understand it!
Posted from TSR Mobile
Depression is a difficult one from experience as so many dont understand it!
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Kabloomybuzz
There isn't a time limit. The DDA definition of a disability is a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long term effect on your ability to do your job. That's quite subjective. 4 weeks off work is a long time when you think about it and it says its substantial.
Saying that, I wonder if the OP had kept their employer informed that they would have been able t cut down on hours a bit rather than taking all that time off??
Saying that, I wonder if the OP had kept their employer informed that they would have been able t cut down on hours a bit rather than taking all that time off??
I did let me employer know that I suffer from depression, and I only manage to work 10 hours a week due to other commitments, however my family really depends on money from this job. I have only been diagnosed recently, however I have been suffering from depression since 13 after a traumatic event but I never thought that I needed help...
Original post by Anonymous
I did let me employer know that I suffer from depression, and I only manage to work 10 hours a week due to other commitments, however my family really depends on money from this job. I have only been diagnosed recently, however I have been suffering from depression since 13 after a traumatic event but I never thought that I needed help...
Unfortunately the fact that you didn't get help is going to go against you, unless you can prove of at least a year where you have had constant depression.
Have you spoken to your boss? I think it would look better for you if you arrange to meet with him rather than the other way round, as it will show that you are invested in keeping your job.
Oh and whoever negged you for your first post is an idiot. They obviously have no empathy whatsoever and haven't taken into account that it was very brave of you to post this on here in the first place.
(edited 10 years ago)
You can't take them to an employment tribunal anyway as you've only been working there for 5 months and it doesn't seem like your situation qualifies for automatic unfair dismissal- i may be wrong though. http://www.xperthr.co.uk/article/104812/automatically-unfair-reasons-for-dismissal.aspx
Does your boss know about your suicide attempt? If he does he sounds like he's got a heart of stone.
Does your boss know about your suicide attempt? If he does he sounds like he's got a heart of stone.
Hey, sorry to hear about your problems. 
I can't help you with your current employment problems, but I thought you'd like to know you're quite possibly eligible for DLA (disability living allowance), which you can claim even while working, and if you do have to leave your job/ if you're working less than 16 hours a week (although I'm less certain of that part) because of your health problems then sounds like you're an ideal candidate for ESA (employment and support allowance) - it's kind of like JSA only they don't always require you to be seeking employment. Money from these benefits can really add up, and can make being ill a lot less stressful in one respect at least. 
I can't help you with your current employment problems, but I thought you'd like to know you're quite possibly eligible for DLA (disability living allowance), which you can claim even while working, and if you do have to leave your job/ if you're working less than 16 hours a week (although I'm less certain of that part) because of your health problems then sounds like you're an ideal candidate for ESA (employment and support allowance) - it's kind of like JSA only they don't always require you to be seeking employment. Money from these benefits can really add up, and can make being ill a lot less stressful in one respect at least. I didn't think dla covered depression, I've been signed off for weeks and I thought dla, only covered if you needed day to day support, cooking cleaning etc? You'd qualify for ESA it's £70 a week...
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by kmcgowan13
I didn't think dla covered depression, I've been signed off for weeks and I thought dla, only covered if you needed day to day support, cooking cleaning etc? You'd qualify for ESA it's £70 a week...
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
Nobody has said anything about dla. DDA, is the disability discrimination act which protects people from discrimination in the workplace and for access to goods and services
Original post by kmcgowan13
I didn't think dla covered depression, I've been signed off for weeks and I thought dla, only covered if you needed day to day support, cooking cleaning etc? You'd qualify for ESA it's £70 a week...
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
Depression counts - if say you've no motivation to eat/have such poor concentration that you can't safely cook, then that means you're eligible. Or if you're a danger to yourself you might need someone to mind you. And for the mobility aspect then you can take into account stuff like anxiety meaning you can't go to new places unaccompanied. I'm on DLA for depression without having any other disabilities - I (cynically) think the government deliberately doesn't publicise this aspect of these benefits, but mental illness is equally valid as physical.
Original post by Kabloomybuzz
Nobody has said anything about dla. DDA, is the disability discrimination act which protects people from discrimination in the workplace and for access to goods and services
I mentioned it as a means to supplement OP's income whether they can continue to work or not.
Sorry to double post: OP, here's a link to the government website listing disability benefits.
It would depend on how long you have been working there, whether you have a contract or not and many many other factors. Go to your local Citizens advice who would make you an appointment with an employment adviser.
