I don&#x27;t believe in dyslexia.

Original post by Chlorophile

Okay, so are you saying that Autistic people are just lazy people who can't be bothered to communicate? That depressed people are just pathetic idiots whining about nothing? That people suffering from schizophrenia are making up things for attention?

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about!

No. They're just being people who are different from you and I. Stop labelling them and stop being ignorant. Just because they're different and do not conform to societies normal ways it does not mean they have an illness or mental disorder.

Maybe in their eyes you're the one with a mental disorder.

Reply 83

Adamk_14

5

Your post basically mocks doctors and most scientific research on Dyslexia. It wouldn't be considered real if research didn't back it. Furthermore it wouldn't be considered real if it was evident that they just had difficulty reading, because obviously that problem will be solved in future, however if the 'reading and writing problem' isn't solved wouldn't it be more logical to diagnose it as a condition. Plus there are many types of dyslexia, how can you actually judge them all like that. It isn't a fake condition. However, i do agree with you on one point teaching around the UK and the world needs to be improved.

Reply 84

james22

16

Original post by Jon Snow

No. They're just being people who are different from you and I. Stop labelling them and stop being ignorant. Just because they're different and do not conform to societies normal ways it does not mean they have an illness or mental disorder.

Maybe in their eyes you're the one with a mental disorder.

Should we label people who have any illness then? What about people who have lost limbs, or are blind or death. After all, they are just different from you or I.

Reply 85

Chlorophile

20

Original post by Jon Snow

No. They're just being people who are different from you and I. Stop labelling them and stop being ignorant. Just because they're different and do not conform to societies normal ways it does not mean they have an illness or mental disorder.

Maybe in their eyes your the one with a mental disorder.

I understand where you're coming from to a certain extent, but I think you're misunderstanding the benefits of labeling. I've got Asperger's so I'm used to the idea that "It's not a mental disorder, it's a different way of thinking". Well yes, fair enough, but that still doesn't mean that we can't give it a name. The fact of the matter is that I do behave and think very differently to most 'ordinary' people and it helps a great deal to help people understand me if I can tell them that I have Asperger's, something that a lot of people know about and understand to a certain extent. Of course, if we lived in a perfect society where everyone was completely accepting of everyone's differences that wouldn't be necessary... but we're not, and it is.

But I also think it's important to understand that whilst from an objective point of view, things like dyslexia and Asperger's might appear to 'just be a different way of thinking', from the point of view of society in general, they are a disorder because they impair the individual's ability to function in society, be it socially or through a difficulty in writing/reading. And other things like depression and schizophrenia really can't be brushed away as being another way of thinking. Regardless of what you name them, they are serious and they can massively harm a person.

Reply 86

Original post by Jon Snow

A lot of people with 'dyslexia' are intelligent and bright individuals I agree. However, reading and writing is a fundamental part of education. You are nurtured to read and write. My parents along with my teachers helped nurture me to read and write. I wasn't born with the ability to read and write but I developed the ability from being taught how to do so.

As I've said many times, you were born (and able to develop) cognitive skills that allowed you to learn to read and write. In someone with dyslexia these skills are impaired to a level that is not otherwise expected (for someone of their intellectual ability).

It is not the case that you are born, nothing happens, then you start learn to read and write in primary school.

Brain scans have even suggested a difference in the brains of pre-school children who are later diagnosed with dyslexia.

Its not a disability at al

So you respect that a person may be disadvantaged (disabled) by the fact that reading and writing is a fundamental part of education, and little thought can be given to their needs, but then you don't think it's a disability?

But we'll come on to this later.

but it shows failings by either teachers or parents to cater to the needs of the child. These are skills you pick up.

Not if core cognitive skills are impaired. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Are you aware of the psychological testing involved in diagnosing dyslexia?

Whether we believe in it being calling it dyslexia, or just a reading disability, the evidence that there are cognitive differences between people with "dyslexia", and people without dyslexia, is undeniable, surely?

While recognising that education can adopt a bit of a one size fits all approach, which does not help certain pupils, I don't see how dyslexia can only result from "poor teaching".

If a teacher or parent or a combination has failed to teach children these vital skills then that does not mean the child has a reading disability. If my gym teacher fails to adequately teach me how to throw the javelin does that mean I'm disabled at throwing? No it does not. It just means I haven't had sufficient education and practice in perfecting that skill.

In that example you are already making the assumption that your gym teacher failed to teach you to adequately. You are therefore begging the question.

A number of things can explain why someone is poor at throwing a javelin. Maybe they aren't very good at it. They could have a co-ordination disorder such as dyspraxia (especially if they have difficulties in other areas) or, yes, perhaps they weren't taught the proper technique.

Same with someone who "isn't very good at reading".

The term dyslexia is often thrown about by people who do not have the patience to help and assist and give those who maybe need a different approach to understand the time and effort it requires.

You do realise the specialist support offered to those with dyslexia? Whether this is helpful and allows all people with dyslexia to fully meet their academic potential is one thing, but it's not the case that people are told "you have dyslexia, there's no point in teaching you as you'll never learn to read properly and we just can't be bothered" as you seem to suggest.

Just because someone requires some more effort and time it does not make them disabled. Again, its a disgraceful and damaging label to the psyche of these people. These people will never try and learn and improve the situation if they're told they're disabled and they cant. Its massively damaging.

Rubbish. It need not be such a dirty word.

Firstly, are you aware of the Social Model of Disability, which has largely come to replace the old Medical Model? This stresses that society is the main factor in disabling people through things like barriers and attitudes.

The onus is therefore not placed on the individual, which it is in the Medical model. The individual isn't seen as someone "damaged" who needs to be "fixed". It's recognised they may have variations or differences but it doesn't think they are strictly "disabled" as a result of these differences. Rather the disability results in the way society treats those with the "disability".

People do prefer to call it a "learning difference", or learning difficulty, rather than a disability. It promotes the idea of people still being of sufficient intelligence, but still have poorer than expected functioning in certain cognitive functions, but may also have strengths in other areas, and learn in a different way.

The situation is therefore not hopeless for the person with dyslexia. Instead they are offered specialist support and reasonable adjustments. The use of coloured overlays and tinted lenses (if helpful), more visual learning methods such as mind maps, additional time in exams, specialist tutoring and so on.

Nor is a future necessarily so bleak for anyone else with a disability, especially with improving public attitudes and adjustments.

Deafness is a disability. You cant learn to hear something. The ability to hear something is something you are born with or not born with and is predetermined. ADHD and Dyslexia are terms thrown around by people who either don't have the want to understand and assist these people and giving them the extra effort they require, which we all do in different aspects and subjects in our life.

This isn't quite true. As already covered in this thread certain people who are deaf can receive cochlea implants and then, through auditory training, be "taught" to hear and listen.

You seem to suggest that a disability can only be something you are born with? This is not true.

Once people are no longer willing to help said individuals they label them with absurdities like ADHD and Dyslexia as it gives them a way to shift responsibility and basically say 'theres nothing we can do'.

This completely contradicts what the experience of many who are diagnosed with dyslexia. I wager for most that, although it can bring some anxiety, it is often a relief. It allows them to access specialist support and provides a reason for why they did struggle.

Calling somebody dyslexic or reading disabled because they haven't learnt to read and write to your level and accepted threshold is like Messi calling somebody football disabled because they haven't learnt how to master the game to his level. Would you accept such a judgement and label? I highly doubt it.

It really isn't. Not at all.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 87

Original post by james22

Should we label people who have any illness then? What about people who have lost limbs, or are blind or death. After all, they are just different from you or I.

We shouldn't label anyone at all. We should accept people for who they are. All labelling does is create a state of you and us which is not going to benefit anyone in the long run.

Reply 88

Original post by Jon Snow

No. They're just being people who are different from you and I. Stop labelling them and stop being ignorant. Just because they're different and do not conform to societies normal ways it does not mean they have an illness or mental disorder.

Maybe in their eyes you're the one with a mental disorder.

Maybe, which is why again I direct you to the Social Model of Disability.

Please see the link below if you're unaware of the Model.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_model_of_disability

I take it you aren't a believer in Autistic Spectrum Disorders either, then?

Reply 89

Networking Nerd!

6

Original post by Jon Snow

We shouldn't label anyone at all. We should accept people for who they are. All labelling does is create a state of you and us which is not going to benefit anyone in the long run.

Agreed +Rep

Reply 90

Original post by River85

Rubbish. It need not be such a dirty word.

Firstly, are you aware of the Social Model of Disability, which has largely come to replace the old Medical Model? This stresses that society is the main factor in disabling people through things like barriers and attitudes.

The onus is therefore not placed on the individual, which it is in the Medical model. The individual isn't seen as someone "damaged" who needs to be "fixed". It's recognised they may have variations or differences but it doesn't think they are strictly "disabled" as a result of these differences. Rather the disability results in the way society treats those with the "disability".

I suffer from a 'disability' as you like to call it or use as a label. In my eyes however I see you as the person with the 'disability'. I see you as someone clearly suffering from a mental disorder - you seem unable to empathise or understand those who are different and therefore have to label us to give us a defined descriptive term.

Adding labels to things creates a degree of separation and segregation by default. You label things such as notebooks that you wish to distinguish from one another. You identify by these things. I see you as 'disabled' because you're clearly unaware of this - you therefore must suffer from some of the traits you like labelling people with - sociopathy? Possibly. Narcissism? Most likely. A lack of empathy? Certainly.

I've just proven to you how we can all label one another if we wish. Its down to the person doing the labelling. One person may label a car a car, another may label it an automobile and another may label it a vehicle.

You all love to have your labels - healthy, overweight, mental disorders, physical disabilities, etc.

Get over yourselves! People are just people. If you wish to segregate people then fair enough but I see the labelling of someone like myself as disabled just because I'm different as no different to labelling another minority something bad.

Im still being judged on the basis that I'm different and therefore I'm given a label on that basis as well. Its a disgrace.

In your eyes I may not understand medicine or psychiatry or any other of those fields. In my eyes you don't understand humans or life.

Reply 91

Original post by River85

Maybe, which is why again I direct you to the Social Model of Disability.

Please see the link below if you're unaware of the Model.

I take it you aren't a believer in Autistic Spectrum Disorders either, then?

I don't believe in the term disorder for a start. I believe everyone is different and society, especially those who think they are better off should stop being judgemental bastards. Everyone has a purpose in society and we should embrace people as people. We should do away with the labels. I don't see colour and was brought up in a house hold whereby it didn't matter because of my mixed raced family. I don't see disabilities.

What I do see is a world full of different people from a variety of different backgrounds. I see a world where some people excel in one area and struggle in others. Im not going to judge them on the areas they excel or struggle in. I have areas in which I excel and areas in which I struggle. That is life. That is the human race and has been since the first human was on this planet.

Theres no need to throw all these labels about.

Reply 92

Oh, and when I refer to the Social Model I'm well aware it became popular in the 1980s and 1990s, and has been increasingly attacked in sections of academia especially this last decade.

The point stands that disability need not be a dirty word, and people with dyslexia do, in theory, have access to specialist support and are legally entitled to reasonable adjustments in areas such as education and employment.

Original post by Jon Snow

We shouldn't label anyone at all. We should accept people for who they are. All labelling does is create a state of you and us which is not going to benefit anyone in the long run.

Though I endorse your point about being more accepting of who people are, this still doesn't mean we shouldn't recognise peoples differences and be willing to make adjustments when needed. We will never be more accepting until we're able to do this. Not every person is alike, after all.

Though labelling can, at times, cause damage or confusion, more often than not at least in my experience, it can also be important by providing many people with relief, an identity, and access to support. Take a person with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder who has struggled throughout their life feeling "different" to other people, but not knowing why. Having few friendships, struggling in Education and/or employment, and developing anxiety and depression. Well into adulthood they receive this diagnosis and, though it can taken many aback, is often able to answer a lot of questions for them.

I don't know how much experience you have, but as someone with a number of conditions/disabilities myself, supports and empowers people with a disability both as an interest and a job, and studies disability at an academic level (MA), I can say that I do know what I'm talking about.

Reply 93

pane123

16

Original post by SoftPunch

Nope; the articles wasn't written when I had that thought. Try again. :wink:

Where is the date on the Daily Mail article, just out of interest? It may be that I am skimming over it.

Sorry if this seems intrusive, but what age are you?

Reply 94

Original post by Networking Nerd!

Agreed +Rep

You either repped or quoted the wrong person. Unless you wanted to rep is both, but I'm not sure if you repped Jon Snow.

Reply 95

pink pineapple

14

Original post by Abdul-Karim

I believe dyslexia and the likes are a hoax to make kids/parents feel a little happier about potential educational failure.

Academic failure and things like dyslexia are two completely separate things. I went to a academically successful school where there were students who struggled with dyslexia. Someone who I know has Aspergers and is in their first year at Cambridge.

Reply 96

Original post by River85

The point stands that disability need not be a dirty word

To me I am being labelled and I am being judged. I am therefore being made an outcast by default because I am different. Why label me? Why not just accept me for who I am and just say you're a human being?

Though I endorse your point about being more accepting of who people are, this still doesn't mean we shouldn't recognise peoples differences and be willing to make adjustments when needed. We will never be more accepting until we're able to do this. Not every person is alike, after all.

No. We'll never be more accepting until people are willing to drop using labels and instead see people for who they are deep down, human beings. Using labels is what has led to numerous religious related attacks, race riots and wars yet the human race loves to do it and continue to distinguish and separate one another. Its fine for those on top but those with 'disabilities' or 'disorders' see it very differently.

Though labelling can, at times, cause damage or confusion, more often than not at least in my experience, it can also be important by providing many people with relief, an identity, and access to support. Take a person with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder who has struggled throughout their life feeling "different" to other people, but not knowing why. Having few friendships, struggling in Education and/or employment, and developing anxiety and depression. Well into adulthood they receive this diagnosis and, though it can taken many aback, is often able to answer a lot of questions for them.

All the times it does. Whenever I speak to other 'disabled' people and get down to it a lot of them have other 'issues' that stem from being labelled in the first place. They're labelled with something such as dyslexia and then they get called something like a ******* at school or belittled in the workplace which leads to other labels such as depression and social anxiety which all stemmed from the original labelling. This can lead to them doing drugs or requiring prescription drugs or even worse, self harming or suicide. That didn't stem from something deep down to begin with. That stemmed from the socially accepted labelling and institutional victimisation and bullying of people who are different.

The world would be a better place if people weren't such judgemental ***** and had to label everyone who was different.

I don't know how much experience you have, but as someone with a number of conditions/disabilities myself, supports and empowers people with a disability both as an interest and a job, and studies disability at an academic level (MA), I can say that I do know what I'm talking about.

In your opinion. You cant speak for everyone so please don't pretend you can. There are people like myself with real world experience who have been through all of this. I know people who've committed suicide due to people being judgemental and labelling others. Why? The human race is disappointing at times. It truly excels in one area but suffers and is unable to learn in others.

Maybe the human race is 'disabled'. Theres a thought.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 97

Jjj90

19

Why would the middle classes want to cover up bad teaching? The duty of the British middle classes is to identify a scapegoat and then to stamp on them with all the ferocity they can muster. They'd love a chance to try their hand at teachers.

Reply 98

You'd think my sig would give certain things away, but nevermind.

Original post by Jon Snow

I suffer from a 'disability' as you like to call it or use as a label. In my eyes however I see you as the person with the 'disability'. I see you as someone clearly suffering from a mental disorder - you seem unable to empathise or understand those who are different and therefore have to label us to give us a defined descriptive term.

I have dyspraxia (possibly Asperger's, never been properly investigated or care as it's just "a label" after all), bipolar disorder (though I prefer to call it a mood disorder as the hypomania is mild, even for hypomania.) and also epilepsy (controlled).

So, yes, I do a disability. More than one. :hat2:

It should be noted that rarely do I call dyslexia a disability. I call it a learning difficulty or difference. However, it may be considered a disability according to the Equality Act (2008).

I will still call many other conditions disabilities and I don't apologise for doing so. It is not a dirty word, nor does it mean I don't treat people as individuals.

Ultimately you don't know me.Treating people as individuals is a core part of my role as a Community Enabler. To recognise people are individuals are have different strengths and weakness'. That every person needs support in some areas and that everyone has their own ambitions in life and values.

I wouldn't have got the job if I couldn't see and treat people as individuals.

Adding labels to things creates a degree of separation and segregation by default. You label things such as notebooks that you wish to distinguish from one another. You identify by these things. I see you as 'disabled' because you're clearly unaware of this - you therefore must suffer from some of the traits you like labelling people with - sociopathy? Possibly. Narcissism? Most likely. A lack of empathy? Certainly.

OK, please stop that. This isn't relevant to the thread.

I've just proven to you how we can all label one another if we wish. Its down to the person doing the labelling. One person may label a car a car, another may label it an automobile and another may label it a vehicle.

There's often some subjectivity in labelling, yes.

Get over yourselves! People are just people. If you wish to segregate people then fair enough but I see the labelling of someone like myself as disabled just because I'm different as no different to labelling another minority something bad.

If you don't see yourself as disabled then you are not disabled.

In your eyes I may not understand medicine or psychiatry or any other of those fields. In my eyes you don't understand humans or life.

Again, stop it.

I notice that you haven't replied to many of the points I made in reply to your post. Namely that one isn't simply "taught how to read" but that it depends on a person's cognitive ability and functioning, or that people with dyslexia aren't offered support.

But I think we best leave this here. You clearly have an axe to grind and it's affecting your ability to actually engage in sensible discussion.

Reply 99