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Didn't study science A Levels? Then your grades aren't worth as much
That may be the case if the Tories ever get to bring in their most recent 'idea'.
They want to tackle the lack of science graduates by making science A Levels worth more points in UCAS applications than non-science subjects, maybe up to as much as 50% more points.
Something probably does need to be done to ensure we're producing more scientists, but this crazy idea the Tories have come up with is not tackling the problem properly. At best it's trying to bribe people into science degrees. At worst it's devaluing every non-science subject at A Level, making them second class. Splitting A Level subjects in a two tier system 'good subjects' and '****e subjects'.
I think it's just not no. They need to think up of better ways to tackle the problem. If this is the best the Tories can come up with with all their expertise then they are in serious trouble.
The story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4796937.stm
They want to tackle the lack of science graduates by making science A Levels worth more points in UCAS applications than non-science subjects, maybe up to as much as 50% more points.
Something probably does need to be done to ensure we're producing more scientists, but this crazy idea the Tories have come up with is not tackling the problem properly. At best it's trying to bribe people into science degrees. At worst it's devaluing every non-science subject at A Level, making them second class. Splitting A Level subjects in a two tier system 'good subjects' and '****e subjects'.
I think it's just not no. They need to think up of better ways to tackle the problem. If this is the best the Tories can come up with with all their expertise then they are in serious trouble.
The story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4796937.stm
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then people would just start doing science knowing that even if they come out with a D (as I will tomorrow) it'll be worth more UCAS points than had they done any other subject and so this could encourage people who have no inclination to try hard at the subject to do it solely for this reason. It would make it easier for skilled pupils to get the higher grades, but I don't think it will encourage more people to do science at university.
OH no! My 'PE' and 'Cultural Studies' A levels don't carry as much weight as proper academic subjects! Whatever shall i do! :O
How can you have a D when there's so much chemistry going on over here?
then people would just start doing science knowing that even if they come out with a D (as I will tomorrow)
How can you have a D when there's so much chemistry going on over here?
Well.. I don't think it's that bad an idea, because most universities worth bothering with don't judge you on your UCAS points anyway. It uses fairly warped logic I know, but I don't think it's as bad as it sounds. It's like how people who play musical instruments get extra UCAS points - but that's not really to say that those who don't play instruments aren't going to get into the universities of their choice. I think rather than looking at it as a devaluation of arts subjects, it should be seen simply as an extra incentive for people to take science subjects. There aren't that many alternatives which will encourage people to do science.
Andronicus Comnenus
OH no! My 'PE' and 'Cultural Studies' A levels don't carry as much weight as proper academic subjects! Whatever shall i do! :O
How can you have a D when there's so much chemistry going on over here?
How can you have a D when there's so much chemistry going on over here?
Things like economics and geography are proper subjects.
I did physics.
Thud
Things like economics and geography are proper subjects.
I did physics.
I did physics.
You're only saying economics is a proper subject to get in with the mods
Perhaps the Tories have made the criteria a little too narrow, but in theory i have no problem with making joke alevels less weighty than proper alevels.
There must be a problem with qualified UK grads based on the new immigration laws.
Any foreign student (non-EU) with a degree in science can stay on in the UK and work without a permit for 12 months, after which they can have their employer get a work permit for them and stay on. And now they've opened the same scheme up to all foreign graduates with an MSc or higher in any subject! Why aren't British students able to meet these employment needs? I'm not sure giving more points is the answer but there must be a way.
Any foreign student (non-EU) with a degree in science can stay on in the UK and work without a permit for 12 months, after which they can have their employer get a work permit for them and stay on. And now they've opened the same scheme up to all foreign graduates with an MSc or higher in any subject! Why aren't British students able to meet these employment needs? I'm not sure giving more points is the answer but there must be a way.
Andronicus Comnenus
OH no! My 'PE' and 'Cultural Studies' A levels don't carry as much weight as proper academic subjects! Whatever shall i do! :O
How can you have a D when there's so much chemistry going on over here?
How can you have a D when there's so much chemistry going on over here?
Neither would English, history, geography, or languages...I've no idea where maths would stand in all this either...so I'd guess maths is also going to be devalued.
It's a disgrace to do such a things. Many unis still offer places from points scores.
If we aren't careful the system would end up with better students missing out on places on science based courses if they do fewer science subjects than someone else yet actually get a better grade in their science subject than the person with numerous scinece...
...that is unless the uni chooses to ignore the extra weighting and offer places on merit alone of subjects being equally weighted points wise...in which case we have to question the need for a change and what benefits there are from it other than making the Tories appear to be tackling a problem at first glance, but actually not doing much when you look under the surface.
Surely they can think of a proper idea which encourages people to continue with science studying rather than bribing them.
Roger Kirk
Neither would English, history, geography, or languages...I've no idea where maths would stand in all this either...so I'd guess maths is also going to be devalued.
It's a disgrace to do such a things. Many unis still offer places from points scores.
If we aren't careful the system would end up with better students missing out on places on science based courses if they do fewer science subjects than someone else yet actually get a better grade in their science subject than the person with numerous scinece...
...that is unless the uni chooses to ignore the extra weighting and offer places on merit alone of subjects being equally weighted points wise...in which case we have to question the need for a change and what benefits there are from it other than making the Tories appear to be tackling a problem at first glance, but actually not doing much when you look under the surface.
Surely they can think of a proper idea which encourages people to continue with science studying rather than bribing them.
It's a disgrace to do such a things. Many unis still offer places from points scores.
If we aren't careful the system would end up with better students missing out on places on science based courses if they do fewer science subjects than someone else yet actually get a better grade in their science subject than the person with numerous scinece...
...that is unless the uni chooses to ignore the extra weighting and offer places on merit alone of subjects being equally weighted points wise...in which case we have to question the need for a change and what benefits there are from it other than making the Tories appear to be tackling a problem at first glance, but actually not doing much when you look under the surface.
Surely they can think of a proper idea which encourages people to continue with science studying rather than bribing them.
Bribery is what governments do - including Labour. With British society in the state it is, sometimes bribery is the only way to get things done. Sad but true.
Roger Kirk
Surely they can think of a proper idea which encourages people to continue with science studying rather than bribing them.
Surely they can think of a proper idea which encourages people to continue with science studying rather than bribing them.
The current system basically reprimands people for doing more difficult subjects. 'bribing' people to do science is wrong, but the idea of Ucas points reflecting the difficulty of a subject is not. My science teacher was keen for me to take Alevel physics, but personally i couldn't be bothered with it. Why waste the effort when you can get an A level in sociology which is weighted the same but is a hell of a lot easier?
Andronicus Comnenus
The current system basically reprimands people for doing more difficult subjects. 'bribing' people to do science is wrong, but the idea of Ucas points reflecting the difficulty of a subject is not. My science teacher was keen for me to take Alevel physics, but personally i couldn't be bothered with it. Why waste the effort when you can get an A level in sociology which is weighted the same but is a hell of a lot easier?
the "difficulty" of a subject changes from year to year (depending on what comes up in the paper) and between pupils.
Thud
the "difficulty" of a subject changes from year to year (depending on what comes up in the paper) and between pupils.
Ahh come off it - A level Sociology is nowhere near as difficult as GCSE Science, and Sociology has a much better claim to being a 'proper' subject than the likes of Media or Music Technology or 'Cultural Studies'...
Andronicus Comnenus
Ahh come off it - A level Sociology is nowhere near as difficult as GCSE Science, and Sociology has a much better claim to being a 'proper' subject than the likes of Media or Music Technology or 'Cultural Studies'...
depends whether you're good at essay subjects or not.
although, granted, those other ones aren't "real" subjects.
Thud
depends whether you're good at essay subjects or not.
Even if you limit yourself to essay subjects, a level sociology is much easier than a level history.
I don't think that this is the best way to go about it to be honest. I agree that more people are need to go and do science degrees however making it easier to get higher points with lower grades isn't going to do anything to increase the quality of science graduates. A better idea would be to encourage those doing science A levels to go on to do science degrees this could be done by subsidising courses or putting in more funding to increase the quality of these courses. I believe that the problem does stem more from people doing science A levels not carrying it on to degree level. I did two sciences at A level and less that half of the people in my two classes actually went on to do a science subject. There should be incentives given fro these children to go and do science degrees.
randdom
I don't think that this is the best way to go about it to be honest. I agree that more people are need to go and do science degrees however making it easier to get higher points with lower grades isn't going to do anything to increase the quality of science graduates. A better idea would be to encourage those doing science A levels to go on to do science degrees this could be done by subsidising courses or putting in more funding to increase the quality of these courses. I believe that the problem does stem more from people doing science A levels not carrying it on to degree level. I did two sciences at A level and less that half of the people in my two classes actually went on to do a science subject. There should be incentives given fro these children to go and do science degrees.
Same principle..
It's a crap idea.
I was under the impression that most universities give offers based on grades rather than points. That was certainly the experience of most of my friends and I. Secondly, suppose that you have two students, A and B. A does science subjects, B does "easy" subjects like politics, philosophy etc.
Given that they're not going to be applying for the same degree anyway, how will A have an advantage over B. Yes, he's got more points, but they're not competing with each other, are they?
I was under the impression that most universities give offers based on grades rather than points. That was certainly the experience of most of my friends and I. Secondly, suppose that you have two students, A and B. A does science subjects, B does "easy" subjects like politics, philosophy etc.
Given that they're not going to be applying for the same degree anyway, how will A have an advantage over B. Yes, he's got more points, but they're not competing with each other, are they?
So with this in place, wouldn't we just get intelligent students studying two sciences to get the higher amount of UCAS points, with the third (and possibly fourth) subjects taken at A-Level being that which they are genuinely interested in? The third (and/or fourth) subject would therefore be the one which they will continue with at University anyway- so making their scientific knowledge irrelevant as it was taken up just to earn points and not furthered in any meaningful way, and certainly not helping increase the number of science graduates.
It would also mean that instead of lesson time at college being spent on subjects that would complement their degree course; for example the study of History and Philosophy at A-Level to go with Politics, taken at A-Level and then also studied at University, it would be used to learn irrelevant subjects that would have little further impact on either their studies or real life.
It would also mean that instead of lesson time at college being spent on subjects that would complement their degree course; for example the study of History and Philosophy at A-Level to go with Politics, taken at A-Level and then also studied at University, it would be used to learn irrelevant subjects that would have little further impact on either their studies or real life.
The Ace is Back
Same principle..
It is a way of getting students into science degrees and yes it works on a similar principle however the suggestion by the conservative party will encourage students who aren't necessarily strongest in science to take it where as the suggestion that I made would hopefully get people who already like science to go and do degrees.
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