Can Israel Claim Self-Defense Against the Territory It Occupies? Watch

demhka
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Source: http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/6...efense_against

With close to 1,900 dead from Israel’s month-long assault on Gaza, Human Rights Watch is calling on Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to seek International Criminal Court jurisdiction over potential war crimes committed on and from Palestinian territory. HRW says both Israeli forces and Palestinian militants committed war crimes. We are joined by HRW Executive Director Kenneth Roth and John Dugard, former U.N. special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories and emeritus professor of international law at the University of Leiden in the Netherlands. "Given the fact that Gaza is an occupied territory, it means that Israel’s present assault is simply a way of enforcing the continuation of the occupation," says Dugard, "and the response of the Palestinian militants should be seen as the response of an occupied people that wishes to resist the occupation."
TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: We continue our discussion about possible war crimes in Gaza. Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki said Tuesday his administration was making efforts to have Palestine become a member of the International Criminal Court, a legal step that would grant the court jurisdiction over alleged crimes in the territory.
RIYAD AL-MALIKI: Yes, I did meet the prosecutor. For us, it was very important just, you know, to get acquainted with the work of the ICC and what is really being required for Palestine to get access to, to put its signature to the Rome Statute and to become member of the ICC, because what has really happened recently against the Palestinian people in Gaza, atrocities committed by Israel, required immediate reaction from us. And so, here we are, you know, ready to ask questions, to be prepared for the next step.
AMY GOODMAN: Joining us from The Hague is John Dugard, the former U.N. special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories, now emeritus professor of international law at the University of Leiden in the Netherlands. His recent essay for Al Jazeera America is headlined "Debunking Israel’s Self-Defense Argument." Still with us in Washington, D.C., Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch.
John Dugard, as the ceasefire talks begin in Cairo right now, and the tally is done of the wounded, of the dead, looks like close to 1,900 Palestinians have been killed, thousands have been wounded, 10,000 homes destroyed, 5,000 that have been severely—the houses have been severely damaged. Can you talk about the whole issue of the International Criminal Court?
JOHN DUGARD: Well, Ken Roth has explained the basis for jurisdiction. Palestine is not a party to the Rome Statute. And in order to become a full member of the court, it would have to become a party to the Rome Statute. It can, however, make a declaration accepting the jurisdiction of the court for crimes committed in Gaza at a particular time, and that has not yet been done in recent times since the General Assembly recognized Palestine as a state. But I think it’s important to realize that in 2009, following Operation Cast Lead, Palestine did submit a declaration referring all international crimes committed in Palestine to the International Criminal Court, and that was rejected early in 2012 because at that stage Palestine was not recognized as a state. But later in 2012, the General Assembly did recognize Palestine as a state.

So my position is that it is possible for the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court to exercise jurisdiction, to initiate an investigation already, without any more due. And this is confirmed by the fact that in the last few weeks the minister of justice and the deputy minister of justice of Palestine have submitted documents to the International Criminal Court indicating that, as far as they are concerned, the 2009 declaration is still valid. So, I must confess that I hold the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court partly responsible for the fact that no proceedings have been initiated against Israel and Hamas before the International Criminal Court
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Rakas21
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Yes. Hamas are terrorists who threaten Israeli interests, the defense is justified and I hope they take Gaza and allow Gaza City to be an autonomous state within Israel.
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Osnaz
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Occupations are not illegal and armies have the right to defend themselves within occupied territory.

Israel of course left Gaza and let's remind ourselves of Israel's disengagement plan declaration.

The following is from the Israeli government website from 2005

20 Apr 2005


Hope for the prospects of peace has revived in recent months. The death of Yasser Arafat and the election of his successor, Mahmoud Abbas, have fostered the expectation of a new era in relations between Israelis and Palestinians. Within this context, Israel’s Disengagement Plan, introduced in December 2003, should be seen as an important step forward.
Ever since the 1967 Six Day War brought Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) and the Gaza Strip under Israel’s administration, their status has been in contention. Israel was forced to wage that war in self-defense, and the disputed territories were held not as the object of conquest, but to be part of eventual negotiations for lasting peace.


Although Israel has historic ties, security needs and other vital interests that are directly connected to these disputed territories, it was never Israel’s intention to rule over a large Palestinian population. Israel is ready as always to address the vital interests of the Palestinians in these areas. The goal is to reach a just settlement that would allow both peoples to live in genuine peace and security.


Israel demonstrated its willingness to trade land for peace in its 1979 peace treaty with Egypt, when it gave back all of the Sinai Peninsula. This decision entailed painful sacrifices, including the dismantlement of the town of Yamit and the uprooting of all the Sinai settlements.


Today Israel is poised to disengage from the Gaza Strip and four settlements in the northern West Bank, an initiative that will be the first practical test of the possibility for peaceful coexistence with the Palestinian Authority under the new leadership of Mahmoud Abbas. This bold move to end the stalemate in the peace process follows more than four years of terrorist bloodshed that have brought untold suffering to both Israelis and Palestinians.


The Prime Minister called on the Palestinians to meet the challenge of peaceful coexistence:


“We would like you to govern yourselves in your own country: a democratic Palestinian state with territorial contiguity in Judea and Samaria and economic viability, which would conduct normal relations of tranquility, security, and peace with Israel… We hope that the Palestinian Authority will carry out its part. However, if in a few months the Palestinians still continue to disregard their part in implementing the Roadmap, then Israel will initiate the unilateral security step of disengagement from the Palestinians.”


Border Area Between the Gaza Strip and Egypt
Israel will continue to maintain its essential military presence to prevent arms smuggling along the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt (Philadelphi Route), until the security situation and cooperation with Egypt permit an alternative security arrangement.



- Ports
Israel will consider the establishment of a seaport and airport in the Gaza Strip, in accordance with arrangements to be agreed upon.




- Real Estate Assets
Israel will aspire to transfer industrial, commercial, and agricultural facilities to an international party that will put them to use for the benefit of the Palestinian population. A final decision will be taken regarding the disposition of Israeli residences. In particular, the Erez industrial zone will be transferred to the responsibility of an agreed upon Palestinian or international party.

Israel will explore, together with Egypt, the possibility of establishing a joint industrial zone on the border of the Gaza Strip, Egypt, and Israel.




- Civil Infrastructure and Arrangements


The infrastructure for water, electricity, sewage, and telecommunications will remain in place. Israel will continue to sell electricity, water, gas, and fuel to the Palestinians.


- Economic Arrangements

The economic arrangements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority shall remain in force. These include, inter alia: the passage of goods among the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, Israel, and abroad; the monetary regime; tax and customs arrangements; postal and telecommunications arrangements; the entry of workers into Israel.

In line with Israel’s interest in encouraging greater Palestinian economic independence, it expects to eventually end the employment of Palestinian workers in Israel. Israel supports the international development of sources of employment in the Gaza Strip and in Palestinian areas of the West Bank.
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Person1001
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Israels siege, occupation, and collective punishment are all illegal under international law. Hamas resistance to occupation is legal.

Israel is a terrorist state with increasing number of countries recognising that. Hamas although dubbed (by some countries) as a terrorist organisation is far from it. Of course those governments that do not officially recognise Israel as a terrorist state often have vested interests in Israel.

The Israeli government does pay people generously a lot for promoting Zionism and justifying Israel's heinous crimes on Facebook Twitter , forums and other social media.

I would also look up the leaked document Frank Luntz made for Israel which studied the best language Israel government could use to defend their illegal activities.

Etc. Etc.

Basically there's no point trying to argue against Israel's crimes because it's prima facie obvious what Israel is doing is criminal. You would probably be arguing with someone paid to defend Zionism.
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bertstare
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(Original post by Person1001)
Israels siege, occupation, and collective punishment are all illegal under international law. Hamas resistance to occupation is legal.

Israel is a terrorist state with increasing number of countries recognising that. Hamas although dubbed (by some countries) as a terrorist organisation is far from it. Of course those governments that do not officially recognise Israel as a terrorist state often have vested interests in Israel.

The Israeli government does pay people generously a lot for promoting Zionism and justifying Israel's heinous crimes on Facebook Twitter , forums and other social media.
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