&#x27;Mickey Mouse&#x27; subjects/degrees and &#x27;top-up fees&#x27;

shady lane

Well I'm sorry if I think students are being tricked into doing useless degrees because people like you say "feel free to study what you want." If you want to be a surfer, take the money you'd spend on 3 years of university and go work in a surf shop, move to a tropical climate and surf to your heart's content. I'm not being a snob, but it's not in the best interests of the government to fund these degree, or for the students to take out loans to study things that three years in a classroom will not properly teach you anyway.

Besides, I really don't think there is massive growth in the UK's surf industry, as it's a rocky, cold island. Perhaps if this was offered in Fiju or Hawaii, it would make a small amount of sense.

Well, if students are incapable of making rational decisions for themselves that isn't the responsibility of the government. If the UK wants to subsidize education for all students, they can't put the stipulation that all degrees be sensible.

Reply 22

fat_hobbit

2

shady lane

Well I'm sorry if I think students are being tricked into doing useless degrees because people like you say "feel free to study what you want." If you want to be a surfer, take the money you'd spend on 3 years of university and go work in a surf shop, move to a tropical climate and surf to your heart's content. I'm not being a snob, but it's not in the best interests of the government to fund these degree, or for the students to take out loans to study things that three years in a classroom will not properly teach you anyway.

Besides, I really don't think there is massive growth in the UK's surf industry, as it's a rocky, cold island. Perhaps if this was offered in Fiju or Hawaii, it would make a small amount of sense.

I agree with you there. There is not much of a market for Surf Studies in the UK for the reasons you have stated above.

However, lets take for example a degree in Media Studies and compare it to History. As an Science student I am slightly biased against the arts. Anyway, the point remains, why is Media given so much stick in comparison to an abstracty degree such as "History"?

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/cms/ShowPage/Home_page/What_do_graduates_do__2006/charts_and_tables_pages/p!eXeLamL?subject_id=16

Take a look at the above; most individuals that study History end up going into "clerical,secreterial work". Yet, it is seen as a respected subject, soley because it is traditional. Whereas, a subject such as Media, is taken the piss out off because it is 'newer' and thus therefore less respected. Regardless, of the fact that the degree is geared towards those individuals wanting to work in the Media industry.

You could probably class a degree in psychology on it's own as a doss, as it is mainly individuals in medicine that make breakthroughs in that field - instead of people with a psychology degree. Yet, again it is seen as a 'respectable' degree. One of which, I don't see anyone putting down on to the same level as a 'vocational' and somewhat useful degree such as Media.

Reply 23

Actually the UK surf industry is surprisingly strong - especially around Cornwall. These extremely specific degrees actually all tend to have a high employment rate - graduates don't expect to go on to be investment bankers or international lawyers, they are vocational degrees and they go on to work in the relevant industry.

Reply 24

xyz2k6

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/cms/ShowPage/Home_page/What_do_graduates_do__2006/charts_and_tables_pages/p!eXeLamL?subject_id=16

Take a look at the above; most individuals that study History end up going into "clerical,secreterial work". Yet, it is seen as a respected subject, soley because it is traditional. Whereas, a subject such as Media, is taken the piss out off because it is 'newer' and thus therefore less respected. Regardless, of the fact that the degree is geared towards those individuals wanting to work in the Media industry.

Most? And you claim to be a scientist! Look at the charts again. 24% of 52% go in to clerical work, which is a very broad term encompassing a great number of careers. Who are you to judge if these are worthwile from this information alone? History is an extremely respected subject and teaches skills that are important for loads of careers. I don't disrespect Media studies, but I'm sure that most Media graduates DON'T go on to work in the media. I'd guess there are more History graduates in top media jobs than Media graduates.

Reply 25

What I find hard to get is how a 2:1 or a 1st from at top University (Oxford/Cambridge/Durham/Imperial College/Warwick for instance) in a challenging subject (Physics/Maths/Engineering/Chemistry/Medicine for instance) can be thought of as of the same worth as a degree in these subjects from a Uni like hertfordshire/uni.central.lancs/salford/nottingham trent for example.

I'm basing this purely on entry requirements. I mean if a student who gets BCC is turned away from Oxford for not being 'smart enough' to do a degree there then they go to salford and get what is essentially the same degree. I just can't see how its worth the same.

Probably gonna get flamed for this....

Reply 26

gaijin

I suppose you can say that everyone has the right to study what they want, but when such things like surfing can be classed as a BSc I worry for the future of education in this country.

If I want to learn how to fix a car or cook Italian food, I'll do a night class at my local Annex - I won't contemplate doing a 3 year degree in it. What exactly does one actually obtain from 3 years of studying something like Surfing that they couldn't actually have obtained from having local lessons from a centre that offers them...?

I'm sorry but this not down to any type of respect I must have for the degree or some vague platitudes of being able to study what you want - it just makes a complete mockery of higher education institutions like universities and makes students like myself seem cheapened by the whole process. I have to strive hard to get to university and to study hard subjects to get a good job. We don't need people doing these subjects to cheapen a university degree - which by its own standards is meant to produce intelligent, articulate human beings that are able to work in the higher ranks of society.

Reply 27

fat_hobbit

2

LH

Most? And you claim to be a scientist! Look at the charts again. 24% of 52% go in to clerical work, which is a very broad term encompassing a great number of careers. Who are you to judge if these are worthwile from this information alone? History is an extremely respected subject and teaches skills that are important for loads of careers. I don't disrespect Media studies, but I'm sure that most Media graduates DON'T go on to work in the media. I'd guess there are more History graduates in top media jobs than Media graduates.

A lot of people do disrespect it, that was my point. In addition, everyone that I have known to have done a degree in media, did it for that purpose; to work in Media, the ones that didn't end up working in media, did not because they were unable to get a graduate job in it afterwards.

Personally, I haven't got a problem with anyone doing a History degree.

Reply 28

Laika

The surf industry is quite big around Swansea and areas in the South-West.

It's so irritating when people dimiss humanities as 'easy' as well. It is often the people who excel at sciences that struggle with essay based arts subjects, so how can they then be dismissed as 'easy'? It's a completely different skill. Media Studies has a lower A-Level success rate than Maths for top grades.

I'm sure that most of the statistics around low employment for people with media Studies degrees and other arts subjects stems from the same elitist attitudes of employers rather than the graduate's lack of skills.

Reply 29

Laika

lakeofcake

What I find hard to get is how a 2:1 or a 1st from at top University (Oxford/Cambridge/Durham/Imperial College/Warwick for instance) in a challenging subject (Physics/Maths/Engineering/Chemistry/Medicine for instance) can be thought of as of the same worth as a degree in these subjects from a Uni like hertfordshire/uni.central.lancs/salford/nottingham trent for example.

I'm basing this purely on entry requirements. I mean if a student who gets BCC is turned away from Oxford for not being 'smart enough' to do a degree there then they go to salford and get what is essentially the same degree. I just can't see how its worth the same.

It's not worth the same and no-one would view it as the same. University education is not standardised.

Reply 30

lakeofcake

What I find hard to get is how a 2:1 or a 1st from at top University (Oxford/Cambridge/Durham/Imperial College/Warwick for instance) in a challenging subject (Physics/Maths/Engineering/Chemistry/Medicine for instance) can be thought of as of the same worth as a degree in these subjects from a Uni like hertfordshire/uni.central.lancs/salford/nottingham trent for example.

I'm basing this purely on entry requirements. I mean if a student who gets BCC is turned away from Oxford for not being 'smart enough' to do a degree there then they go to salford and get what is essentially the same degree. I just can't see how its worth the same.

Probably gonna get flamed for this....

You only count sciences as "challenging subjects"? What rubbish.

The truth is that the degrees aren't equal, are they? Not in many employers' eyes.

Reply 31

Laika

The surf industry is quite big around Swansea and areas in the South-West.

It's so irritating when people dimiss humanities as 'easy' as well. It is often the people who excel at sciences that struggle with essay based arts subjects, so how can they then be dismissed as 'easy'? It's a completely different skill. Media Studies has a lower A-Level success rate than Maths for top grades.

I think thats because only people who are good at Maths do it. Many more people think they have a chance at passing Media Studies.

Reply 32

gaijin

I suppose you can say that everyone has the right to study what they want, but when such things like surfing can be classed as a BSc I worry for the future of education in this country.

If I want to learn how to fix a car or cook Italian food, I'll do a night class at my local Annex - I won't contemplate doing a 3 year degree in it. What exactly does one actually obtain from 3 years of studying something like Surfing that they couldn't actually have obtained from having local lessons from a centre that offers them...?

Degrees in surfing (bearing in mind this is one extreme example) are not just about learning to surf, they're about the industry as a whole. As I said, the small pool of graduates from this course tend to find jobs in the industry pretty easily.

Reply 33

LH

You only count sciences as "challenging subjects"? What rubbish.

The truth is that the degrees aren't equal, are they? Not in many employers' eyes.

I don't only count science degrees as challenging. Thats why i said 'for instance', perhaps I should've widened that range beyond sciences, sorry.

I know in many employers eyes they aren't counted as equal, but the government seems to want us to beleive they are.
But then the government wants 50% of people to get a degree. Pity that 50% of jobs aren't graduate jobs.

Reply 34

gaijin

lakeofcake

What I find hard to get is how a 2:1 or a 1st from at top University (Oxford/Cambridge/Durham/Imperial College/Warwick for instance) in a challenging subject (Physics/Maths/Engineering/Chemistry/Medicine for instance) can be thought of as of the same worth as a degree in these subjects from a Uni like hertfordshire/uni.central.lancs/salford/nottingham trent for example.

Its not.

I'm basing this purely on entry requirements. I mean if a student who gets BCC is turned away from Oxford for not being 'smart enough' to do a degree there then they go to salford and get what is essentially the same degree. I just can't see how its worth the same.

Better lecturers and better teaching for start.

Oxbridge will no doubt have a few laureates in there.

Reply 35

Laika

lakeofcake

I think thats because only people who are good at Maths do it. Many more people think they have a chance at passing Media Studies.

Well clearly just because they think they will pass it, it doesn't mean they will, hence it cannot be judged as easy. I challenge any of the typical scientist crowd to take an essay based humanity and see how they fare in such an easy subject.

Reply 36

fat_hobbit

2

Laika

It's not worth the same and no-one would view it as the same. University education is not standardised.

Then maybe the government should only let the brightest applicants go to universities. Rather then creating universities that are frowned upon. Thus, many people doing degrees, could be doing one that is ultimately devalued regardless of their end degree classification.

Reply 37

lakeofcake

I don't only count science degrees as challenging. Thats why i said 'for instance', perhaps I should've widened that range beyond sciences, sorry.

Fair enough

lakeofcake

I know in many employers eyes they aren't counted as equal, but the government seems to want us to beleive they are.
But then the government wants 50% of people to get a degree. Pity that 50% of jobs aren't graduate jobs.

That's not quite true, the government target is for 50% of 18-30 year olds to hold some kind of higher qualification, including HNCs etc, not necessarily university degrees.

Reply 38

Laika

Well clearly just because they think they will pass it, it doesn't mean they will, hence it cannot be judged as easy. I challenge any of the typical scientist crowd to take an essay based humanity and see how they fare in such an easy subject.

Or Maths is typically thought of as hard so people don't do it. But when their schools tell them to go on and do A-Levels they chose ones they think are easiest.

I think the guidelines from Cambridge Uni as to what A-Levels they hold in high regard, the advice was to avoid subjects with 'studies' in the title.

However I do agree with you. Personally wouldn't have a chance at passing an essay based topic. My writing skills just aren't up to it.

Reply 39