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    I wouldn't say it doesn't matter at all but I don't think it's something to worry about massively.
    A degree is a degree. Just because you didn't go to Oxbridge doesn't mean you will have worked less hard for it.

    Pick your university because you like it, not because of its prestige.
    If you pick a uni you like you'll enjoy yourself more and probably will work harder as result. If don' like a uni but pick it because of its prestige then you're more likely to be miserable and not do as well with your work.

    Say an Oxbridge graduate and a Bristol graduate have the same job position, they will both get paid the same.
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    The point is that it will be harder for the Bristol graduate to get the job in the first instance.
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    My point is that a First at Oxbridge is a better degree than a first at Bristol. Therefore it is not a good idea to give up on that opportunity. Good graduates should be able to cope with a rigorous programme of studies and do plenty of relevant extra curricular stuff. Oxbridge doesn't make you the best if you don't use the opportunity, but it does produce the best graduates overall, and provide the best opportunities.
    Not necessarily. Once again, this varies from subject to subject and from student to student, but if you achieved your First at Oxbridge through doing absolutely nothing except sitting on your behind with a book in your hand 24 hours a day, your overall knowledge of your subject area may be poorer than that of a Bristol grad, simply because he or she may have had more time to gain professional experience outside of class. Let's face it - out there in the real world, no one's going to care if you can cite half of Aristotle. What employers will consider, however, is how well you can use the skills you've gained through various means, and all of this is so individual and so dependent on your specific subject area that you simply can't generalise the way you're trying to do now.

    If we're bringing figures into this, Cambridge came below Nottingham, Bath, Sheffield, York, Warwick and a handful of others in this year's Times ranking for politics, for instance, and recieved only a 4A for research quality along with a 23/24 for teaching quality. Does that make it a worse university? Of course not. Still, it's something to consider if rankings really do matter that much to you.
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    The point is that it will be harder for the Bristol graduate to get the job in the first instance.
    Yes but employers don't pick all Oxbridge students.
    They have that bit of edge over other graduates but graduates from universities still have a chance. Otherwise what would be the point in other universities?
    By not going to Oxbridge it doesn't mean you will have less job prospects.
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    (Original post by Lexy86)
    Not necessarily. Once again, this varies from subject to subject and from student to student, but if you achieved your First at Oxbridge through doing absolutely nothing except sitting on your behind with a book in your hand 24 hours a day, your overall knowledge of your subject area may be poorer than that of a Bristol grad, simply because he or she may have had more time to gain professional experience outside of class. Let's face it - out there in the real world, no one's going to care if you can cite half of Aristotle. What employers will consider, however, is how well you can use the skills you've gained through various means, and all of this is so individual and so dependent on your specific subject area that you simply can't generalise the way you're trying to do now.

    If we're bringing figures into this, Cambridge came below Nottingham, Bath, Sheffield, York, Warwick and a handful of others in this year's Times ranking for politics, for instance, and recieved only a 4A for research quality along with a 23/24 for teaching quality. Does that make it a worse university? Of course not. Still, it's something to consider if rankings really do matter that much to you.
    Which is why you apply to Oxford for PPE instead. Duh, there are two of them for a reason. There are very few subjects for which either oxford or cambridge isn't top. You can always make generalisations. For most careers and most subjects, Oxbridge is the best place you can go. Simple as.

    As for the first situation. No-one does that unless they are intending to stay in academia anyway. People at Oxbridge do not all sit with their noses in a book 24/7, they are very aware of their career plans, and do get the experience required. They are also in an extremely good position to get that experience, and are usually pretty well-connected.
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    (Original post by Lou_)
    Yes but employers don't pick all Oxbridge students.
    They have that bit of edge over other graduates but graduates from universities still have a chance. Otherwise what would be the point in other universities?
    By not going to Oxbridge it doesn't mean you will have less job prospects.
    No, it just means that for a lot of top ones you will be at a disadvantage on that aspect of your application.
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    Which is why you apply to Oxford for PPE instead. Duh, there are two of them for a reason. There are very few subjects for which either oxford or cambridge isn't top. You can always make generalisations. For most careers and most subjects, Oxbridge is the best place you can go. Simple as.

    As for the first situation. No-one does that unless they are intending to stay in academia anyway. People at Oxbridge do not all sit with their noses in a book 24/7, they are very aware of their career plans, and do get the experience required. They are also in an extremely good position to get that experience, and are usually pretty well-connected.
    Although I have told you that at least in one industry, which pays the highest graduate salaries, several firms DO NOT prefer Oxbridge graduates. You just don't like that industry so you choose to disregard it.
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    A degree is not the only thing that matters though.

    An Oxbridge student with no work experience and a Bristol student with work experience in the career they are going for? I would say both have an equal chance.
    Work experience and other things are quite important.

    Oxbridge students do have more of a chance , I'm not denying that, but I just don't think that the university you go to will cause you to suffer in the long run. The uni you go to isn't the be all and end all. (if that's the right phrase lol)
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    Although I have told you that at least in one industry, which pays the highest graduate salaries, several firms DO NOT prefer Oxbridge graduates. You just don't like that industry so you choose to disregard it.
    I said most careers and most subjects, not every career and every subject. I do believe I cited one that you didn't notice ie computer science in which oxbridge isn't the best, and also I think it makes little difference for medics too. I didn't ignore it, I just said its a minority, and its partially because people at Oxbridge don't want to go into it.

    Plus, as the numbers you have given show, even banking prefers Oxbridge to universities other than LSE, such as the example the OP gave of Manchester.
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    (Original post by Lou_)
    A degree is not the only thing that matters though.

    An Oxbridge student with no work experience and a Bristol student with work experience in the career they are going for? I would say both have an equal chance.
    Work experience and other things are quite important.

    Oxbridge students do have more of a chance , I'm not denying that, but I just don't think that the university you go to will cause you to suffer in the long run. The uni you go to isn't the be all and end all. (if that's the right phrase lol)
    You are not going to get an oxbridge student with no work experience. The people here just aren't that silly.

    No-one is saying it is. But how much does it matter in general? A fair bit.
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    Which is why you apply to Oxford for PPE instead. Duh, there are two of them for a reason. There are very few subjects for which either oxford or cambridge isn't top. You can always make generalisations. For most careers and most subjects, Oxbridge is the best place you can go. Simple as.

    As for the first situation. No-one does that unless they are intending to stay in academia anyway. People at Oxbridge do not all sit with their noses in a book 24/7, they are very aware of their career plans, and do get the experience required. They are also in an extremely good position to get that experience, and are usually pretty well-connected.
    1) That doesn't in any way mean degrees issued by other top universities are in any way inferior to Oxbridge ones. Once you're given a degree, it's up to you to prove how well you can use it.

    2) Well-connected how? Through mom and pop? If so, that has nothing to do with Oxbridge per se. Yes, they're in a great position to gain that experience, but their rivals from other top schools may be in the very same great position. All I'm asking of you is to stop dismissing other students from other universities as somehow intellectually or professionally inferior, as they are neither.
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    (Original post by Lexy86)
    1) That doesn't in any way mean degrees issued by other top universities are in any way inferior to Oxbridge ones. Once you're given a degree, it's up to you to prove how well you can use it.

    2) Well-connected how? Through mom and pop? If so, that has nothing to do with Oxbridge per se. Yes, they're in a great position to gain that experience, but their rivals from other top schools may be in the very same great position. All I'm asking of you is to stop dismissing other students from other universities as somehow intellectually or professionally inferior, as they are neither.
    The degrees issued by other top universities simply are inferior to Oxbridge ones. Yes, your degree is not the be all and end all, but the degree is better if it comes from Oxbridge.

    Oxbridge has at least the same connections with top companies and professionals, speakers etc as other universities, if not better. They are also well connected in terms of the access the careers service has to ex-students, which all universities have, but Oxbridge are naturally going to have a better network of ex-students because they used to have more of an advantage over other universities historically.

    People at universities outside Oxbridge are, on average, intellectually and professionally inferior. I will continue to hold that belief, because its true.
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    When Ally goes out into the career world, she will realize that her attitude is not going to get her very far. When you're at the bottom of some firm or company and someone has it out for you because they went to Southampton and they are your boss, and you think you are superior because you went to Oxford, it won't be pretty.
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    The degrees issued by other top universities simply are inferior to Oxbridge ones. Yes, your degree is not the be all and end all, but the degree is better if it comes from Oxbridge.

    Oxbridge has at least the same connections with top companies and professionals, speakers etc as other universities, if not better. They are also well connected in terms of the access the careers service has to ex-students, which all universities have, but Oxbridge are naturally going to have a better network of ex-students because they used to have more of an advantage over other universities historically.

    People at universities outside Oxbridge are, on average, intellectually and professionally inferior. I will continue to hold that belief, because its true.
    Ally...it's not true. Seriously. Trust me when I tell you this from personal experience. The undergraduates at LSE, particularly in the Government and IR departments, are some of the brightest people I have come across--and they are from countries around the world. I met very few people at Oxford who could engage in conversation in such a diversity of topics, but I meet them at LSE every single day. I would imagine at Imperial, most students can outperform or equal Oxbridge scientists, even on a bad day.
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    When Ally goes out into the career world, she will realize that her attitude is not going to get her very far. When you're at the bottom of some firm or company and someone has it out for you because they went to Southampton and they are your boss, and you think you are superior because you went to Oxford, it won't be pretty.
    (1) I am hoping for the bar. I sincerely doubt anyone from Southampton will be there.

    (2) I wouldn't work for someone I thought was inferior, and it would be unlikely to be the case that they would be employing me if they were, even if they did have a crap degree, they would have had to prove themselves to get there.

    (3) Even if 1 and 2 were not the case I am not stupid enough to allow my boss to find out ANYTHING about what I think about them, whether its that they're cute, funny, a *******, stupid, clever etc. That is just unprofessional.
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    Ally...it's not true. Seriously. Trust me when I tell you this from personal experience. The undergraduates at LSE, particularly in the Government and IR departments, are some of the brightest people I have come across--and they are from countries around the world. I met very few people at Oxford who could engage in conversation in such a diversity of topics, but I meet them at LSE every single day. I would imagine at Imperial, most students can outperform or equal Oxbridge scientists, even on a bad day.
    No. That is just because LSE has more international students, and therefore have been exposed to different environments and experiences. Thats nice, but it doesn't make them cleverer. I think you would be wrong on both counts.

    How many people have you met at LSE who rejected Oxbridge? Because pretty much everyone going for the relevant subjects here declined imperial or LSE.
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    When Ally goes out into the career world, she will realize that her attitude is not going to get her very far. When you're at the bottom of some firm or company and someone has it out for you because they went to Southampton and they are your boss, and you think you are superior because you went to Oxford, it won't be pretty.
    I really wish I could already give rep
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    (Original post by allymcb2)
    No. That is just because LSE has more international students, and therefore have been exposed to different environments and experiences. Thats nice, but it doesn't make them cleverer. I think you would be wrong on both counts.

    How many people have you met at LSE who rejected Oxbridge? Because pretty much everyone going for the relevant subjects here declined imperial or LSE.
    My flatmate was rejected by LSE, which was her first choice.
    She went to Cambridge.

    My cousin goes to Bristol...she turned down a Cambridge interview in Economics.

    You'll find that many people who prefer LSE or Imperial won't bother applying to Oxbridge if they know they don't want to go there. You have to submit the applications very early, right?
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    There are plenty of people who reject Oxbridge for other universities. SB (who got an offer from both Oxford and LSE) rejected the former for the latter.

    Who'd want to live in the village when you get much better social life (as well as an excellent degree) in the capital?

    An Oxbridge degree is not the be-all or end-all of life. Its also not for everyone.
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    In sum, there seems to be no direct relationship in my experience between going to Oxbridge and being more successful or more intelligent than anyone else.
    This just doesn't follow on. Look at our parliament, and it's almost entirely Oxbridge dominated. Look at the top businesses, and far more of their CEOs will be Oxbridge educated than anywhere else. The same with journalism (the Times is almost entirely Oxbridge educated) and the civil service. The same with judges and QCs. The same with comedians, writers and other media people. If you want to do this on what alumni do, please have a look at how much Oxbridge alumni dominate many of the top jobs. Now, that's not saying necessarily that in the modern age, it is as big a bonus - these people all graduated quite a while ago. But there is a strong correllation between going to Oxbridge and being successful in a certain profession. Indeed in almost all professions. Banking is the exception here. I can't think of another profession where the top echelons (in the UK) aren't dominated by Oxbridge graduates, and I'm not even sure whether at the highest level (head of UK business) banks don't follow the pattern as well.

    Perhaps this is changing, but there's a lot of evidence to show the success of Oxbridge graduates relative to other graduates, and not much to show it's changing.

    (Original post by shady lane)
    Maybe in exams, you are a better performer. But even in graduate school programs I do not see that there is any significant advantage to having gone to Oxbridge.
    Really? In fulbright scholars (probably the hardest scholarship to get here) Oxbridge outnumbers everyone else 7:4 this year. Sadly the Kennedy and Knox scholarships don't publish the list of scholars each year. Getting into a graduate programme. Also this year 43% of Oxford graduates went onto further study, which I'd bank is more than LSEs. Now, clearly like banking is for LSE, that's because a higher proportion of Oxford students apply for further study, and thus that doesn't tell us that they're much more successful. It does show Oxford's pretty good at it though. I'd also bet Cambridge is better.

    I'm still trying to get at exactly what you're trying to say (other than that Ally's wrong!). If you're saying that going to Oxbridge isn't the be-all-and-end-all, and that people from other universities can vecome very successful, then I completely agree. However if you're saying that going to Oxbridge doesn't help, or that people from other universities are just as likely to get to the top of their field, then I entirely disagree.
 
 
 
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