A Koran is found...which may be older than Muhammad!!!

Not necessarily, he could have just added to an older text.

guys. be respectful. no one's forcing you to believe in islam but you should have the maturity to be able to discuss it in a non-bias and certainly non-insulting way.

You can't make it up.
1) Think of an idea to promote your own ideas.

2) Say that a magic cloud man gave you the information. This man, despite having immense power, enough to create the universe, only had the ability to talk to a handful of men and give them his message. He can create the universe but can only give a few people this message. Weird. I can make the whole universe but can't tell more than a few people this message. Too difficult.

3) God, despite being knowledgeable enough to create the universe and set up an advanced solar system and eco system on earth (making them a genius biologist and physicist, and that is an understatement)... is actually unable to tell us how he did it without his version being full of inconsistencies and downright wrong material. Yep, seems legit.

4) We say that the magic cloud man is merely testing us whenever we question the man made book. Ignoring the fact that an all powerful god wouldn't create such a flawed book.

5) Idiots believe this.

Honestly, when religious people ask for proof only then to use the argument "all proof is invalid though"...

Good grief.

I mean, if you can prove god doesn't exist, then by all means do it. Until then, you can't call people idiots for believing it. It's all about faith and belief, you believe god doesn't exist, we believe god does exist. Neither of us can prove it to one another with science, deal with it.

Um...if it looks like your holy book is false, and you carry on believing in it, that is strange.

What you are saying is "I don't care if a holy book is proven to be a lie, I will still believe it because I need proof God doesn't exist first". Well

1) You have proof your holy book is wrong yet still believe that. Therefore even if someone put good proof and arguments to you saying God doesn't exist you wouldn't believe it because you evidently don't care about proof. You can't say "I need proof" yet when you get proof about something ignore it. It is plain stupid.

2) Let us say I flip a coin but keep the side that came up hidden from you. However, I will reveal to you that heads is NOT the side that comes up. By process of elimination you can see that the only alternative is tails. Same thing for rolling a dice, etc.

Now let us say that all these people say religion is true. However, proof comes out that it is indeed man made. Therefore it is quite likely that there is no god since the only side arguing it did exist was lying. So without even going into a long essay about providing you proof about god, there it is.

Point 1-you don't actually want proof and Point 2-process of elimination can be used to find the odds for something at times. I mean there are many reasons people can give why they don't believe in a god, but I'm not going to bother even mentioning them to someone who clearly doesn't care about proof.

You can believe what you like, that is fine. I'm not stopping you putting your head to the ground and arse in the air and mumbling to an imaginary being. I'm not stopping you putting your hands together, closing your eyes and thanking a non-existent entity for things/asking for things and doing it for 80 years even though it never actually works. However, freedom of speech means i can question these things and generally express my views.

Huh, as much as I don't believe in Islam I always assumed he at least made up the thing

guys. be respectful. no one's forcing you to believe in islam but you should have the maturity to be able to discuss it in a non-bias and certainly non-insulting way.

"If the timings are correct, the Koran found in Birmingham was made between 568AD and 645AD, while the dates usually given for the life of Muhammad are between 570AD and 632AD."

1) I don't understand what is so disbelieving about this, maybe the fact that there is a slight chance of the dates working out incorrectly you have gone into an absolute fit of joy, there's still a very high chance that the book was written during the time of Muhammad, and let's not forget that they are dating when the animal was killed, not when it was written.

2) You just repeated yourself with an example - well done. What? I give an example for my points, then summarized them. Giving examples and summarising things is normal when explaining something. You have just made a completely stupid point-if that was your aim well done.

Yeah I don't mind, you can speak how you want about what you want. I don't see why it is getting you all worked up that we choose to do things differently I mean, we aren't losing out by doing this no matter how it turns out in the end, both ways is a win win situation for us the way I see it. Obviously you can go on your insulting rampages, you don't make yourself sound any more credible when you do so...

I'm not worked up...you are the one getting worked up. Like I said, if you wish to spend your time mumbling in strange postures multiple times a day, do it. It doesn't impact me. I get worked up about things that impact me. It seems you think pointing out the absurd nature of something means someone is worked up.

The person who believes in the magic sky man and the subsequent holy books now talks of credibility...to be honest you believe things that have so little credibility I really see that as ironic. A bit like your need for proof being plain ridiculous.

A fit of joy... again I'm not really having a fit of joy-it seems you just say people are in "fits of joy" and are "worked up" just because you feel like it. I think the one getting worked up is the one accusing people of going on an "insulting rampage".

So to summarise 1) you talk of the need for proof yet believe in your religion that has pretty farcical evidence for it.

2) You talk about credibility yet believe in the most incredible of fairy tales and holy books.

3) You try and guess how people are feeling and don't' seem to appreciate people can post whilst still being pretty indifferent.

4) You seem to be of the easily offended type since you say I am going on an "insulting rampage". Some groups seem to be in permanent offence and I imagine you are one of them.

I don't get religious types. They try and talk about logic and reason yet devote their lives to the most illogical, unproven ideas. Christianity seems to be one woman's like about having an affair that got seriously out of hand and as for Islam I can't joke about it because if I do I will be shot or beheaded by the easily offended and barbaric.

No no, the fact that you feel the need to be insulting and such is, to me, an indication of someone getting worked up, and it clearly means the matter is important to them.
I'm not being particularly insulting, you are just easily insulted.

So, this matter of disproving religion is very important to you why? If you speak like this normally however... then yeah, that's your own problem to deal with, so which one is it?
It isn't very important to me. Well done.
I'm just assuming that you're currently sat behind your computer giggling to yourself at the facts presented, thinking to yourself that after all these years of being an atheist and claiming the non-existence of god, you may finally be right! (Unfortunately it's not good evidence, sorry about that)
Again no. I'm not giggling to myself. I don't think I am some great philosopher who has proven something to mankind. I don't think that I have dealt some fatal blow to religion across the world. I am just talking on the internet eating cereal. Weetos. Again you make weird assumptions. You seem to think TSR is some battleground for the intellectual warriors to have long, in depth discussions. It isn't. It is for young people to just post whatever is on their mind. So no, I'm not sitting around giggling or thinking I have removed religion from the face of the earth. I'm eating cereal before bed and I'm more annoyed by the fact I was hungry but still brushed my teeth but then ate so I will have to brush them again. You, on the other hand, are not very chill. You are making weird assumptions and sitting around working yourself into a frenzy imagining some guy giggling and using the internet as a place for meaningful discussion.

1) There is no concrete proof for us - a lot of what we believe is faith, as I said before... Maybe read before reply?I have read it. And stated the hypocrisy of your arguments.
2) You can't call it incredible as you have no proof of it's existence, again, we have faith, you have no proof to call it incredible apart from your own judgement.It is incredible that you have such firm believe in something with flimsy credibility.
3) Indifference doesn't sound like you. As I said before, if this is your indifferent tone, possibly sort it out.You sort yourself out. Getting easily offended, thinking I am using TSR to banish religion from the face of the earth. It tells me you are a weirdo.
4) I don't get offended over things like this, if I did I'd be quite a hypocrite as I'm not exactly what I'd call a good Muslim unfortunately, however I still hold my beliefs. I just saw your ignorant post and decided to reply it...I don't want your life story about what a bad boy you have been. I don't care if you are Muslim. You have gone from treating TSR as a serious place for intellectual discussion to using it as some kind of therapy/confession. Go to church for that crap.

Very good stereotyping. I don't understand people like you, what are you trying to do? Make all atheists look bad?

So you complain about stereotyping and then say I will make all atheists look bad? My word the hypocrisy from you is unreal. Just as you say you aren't a hypocrite you go and do that
The irony you have shown today is plain funny.

You've used the word idiots a few times, that's enough to make it seem like you're trying to be insulting...

Like, this is getting ridiculous now, do you not understand how what your saying comes across? How can you not expect people to assume that you're not sat there with your helmet and sword ready to fight ...
I'm eating cereal. You are the one acting life this is a battleground to prove or disprove religion, for once and for all. I am just saying what I think.
So you said i'm going into a frenzy for making assumptions... while you just made an assumption that I'm going into a frenzy... Okay...
No. You made assumptions about me caring when frankly I don't. I know you are over-stating the importance of an internet forum by the way you say I am trying to disprove religion and other rubbish. I am not assuming based on no evidence.
'No you sort yourself out!' 'No... You sort yourself out!!!' Tbh that's what you sound like.You sound like a person who really takes the internet far too seriously. I mean you think I am sitting here, with some kind of helmet and sword, ready to fight? Fight what? People who may disagree with me? I'm not a Jihadi guy looking to use the sword on people who disagree with me. Jesus.

How was that a confession I don't care about you not being a good Muslim and whatever else you are on about. THIS IS AN INTERNET FORUM FOR STUDENTS.

NOT for long winded philosophical debates.
NOT for fighting with swords.
NOT for talking about what a bad boy you have been and the impact this has had on your life and faith.

Oh that last sentence is the best, hold up. "what are you trying to do? Make all atheists look bad?"
If you look close enough at my quote, you might juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust about be able to see where I said 'you will make atheists look bad', yep it's right there just look close enough everyone.

Okay, you take things too literally, and I'm scared that your blood pressure has reached dangerous levels.

Me finding you laughable doesn't raise my blood pressure... I mean you take things so seriously on here you decide to inform me of your inner conflict with being a Muslim but a bad one. You really care more than I do. I didn't ask, nor did I care. TSR stands for the student room not ali.s life stories.

Goodnight