University of St Andrews

Commitment to additional modules?/Last minute panic

I had thought that St Andrews was my definate first choice (ABB), and I do like the feel of the university and the town/city.
But now that my other offers have come in, I'm starting to panic and wonder whether it really is the right place.

From people already studying there (paricularly philosophy), what is the course like when you have a load of people who've taken modules as their extra subjects rather than having been admitted to the uni for that subject? Are they as commited to the subject? Would it be better if everyone on your course applied for it originally? I'm just a little concerned that all the classes will be filled up by people who took philosophy to fill up their timetable and are less than interested or engaged when it comes to debates etc.

I have an offer for Bristol (ABB) where there was a lot of competition for the course and there are only twenty single honours places, and so presumably everyone will really be into the subject. I've yet to visit Bristol, so I don't know what I think of the atmosphere and everything, but reputation and teaching quality are important to me too. I know that St. Andrews is supposed to rate quite highly for philosophy, but how do you think it would compare to Bristol and how much more currency might a philosophy degree from Bristol have than from St. Andrews?

Any thoughts would be really helpful. Thanks.

:smile:

Reply 1

Dalimyr

Are they as commited to the subject? Would it be better if everyone on your course applied for it originally? I'm just a little concerned that all the classes will be filled up by people who took philosophy to fill up their timetable and are less than interested or engaged when it comes to debates etc.

They need the credits as much as you do - just because it's not their degree choice doesn't mean they put any less effort into it. In fact, I put more effort into my German modules than the CompSci or Maths modules I was doing because I considered it to be my weakest subject (at the time I hadn't done German for two years, whereas I had continued with CS and Maths while I was doing my Highers)

University of St Andrews

Reply 2

oxymoronic

I'm a first year at Edinburgh, but I saw this thread on the updated feed thingy, and as we have the same 3 subject system as St Andrews I am going to comment:

Remember that you will also be obliged to take 2 additional courses to fill up your credits, so will you be less engaged, less interested, and less likely to participate in the tutorials in these subjects, in the same way as you ask about the non degree philosophy students? I'm guessing not. There are so many courses you can take as your outside- at Edinburgh its literally anything on the timetable- so I doubt anyone is really going to feel the need to 'fill the timetable' as when it comes down to it there will probably be 4/5 courses which interest you, so you pick your favourite. Its definitely not a case of 'I have a list of several courses, none of which interest me, so I'll pick the easiest', and you'll most probably have the same problem when selecting your outside subject.

In my lectures I have no idea who is taking the subject as a main degree choice or as an outside course. The only way you find out is if someone tells you. Everyone is still obliged to do the readings, contribute to tutorials, submit decent essays and generally commit to the subject, regardless of whether it is your degree or not so I really don't think you have any cause to worry. Yes, at Bristol there may only be 20 people on the course, but that’s only 20 opinions in a debate, at St Andrews you'll have loads more than that, and even if someone is completely new to philosophy it doesn't mean they can't contribute to debates in the same way that you can.

Also, I can identify with the above poster. My outside course is Spanish yet I seem to do as much work for that as I do for my other two subjects (linguistics and anthropology) combined, as it is a lot more time intensive. You literally can't get by with the attitude of 'its only my outside so I don't care' as even in first year you're expected to put the effort in and work.

Reply 3

ebonyphoenix

The entry requirements across the board are fairly high for St. Andrews, so I doubt you'll surrounded by a bunch of slackers in philosophy. I wouldn't base your decision on the fact you think others might be less dedicated to the course because it's not their degree. Actually the structure of taking three subjects and being able to change your degree course I think would create more motivation to do well in all three- you never know if you may later want to switch and you can't enter into honours with a different subject if your marks are low.

I have had a broad education in the US in a number of subjects and the system is very different, but just because I had more subjects did not mean I only focused on the ones I really liked. I studied just as much for AP Statistics as I did for AP English. You will find that the types of students at places with high entry requirements are good students in general and will (hopefully) be interested in learning for learning's sake.

OH and I think it's common to second guess yourself but if you really think you like St. Andrews, I'd stick with my decision. If you hastily decide on Bristol you may regret it later unless you are really sure. It's tough to make choices especially when you have many good options, but I can tell you the best thing is resolving in your mind that you are definitely going to pick a certain university and not look back.

Reply 4

yeung3939

I am not going to do philosophy. As far as I know, according to the American Philosophical Gourmet Report (a very prestigious report on Phd studies in Philosophy), St. Andrews Philosophy Department is 13th in the world (3rd in UK, just below Oxbridge for three successive rounds - 2002, 2004, 2006). Its St. Andrews- Stirling programme is 13rd in the world (I am not sure). Bristol is 2002: not in top 15 in UK, 2004: 14th in UK, 2006: 9th in UK. Obviously, Bristol is in no match with St. Andrews in terms of academic reputation.

Therefore, St. Andrews's department is regarded as a top department (at least according to Philosophical Gourmet Report. 13th is really really good. It puts St. Andrews above Cambridge, Australian National University, Yale, Cornell, Brown, Chicago, LSE, U of Toronto, Duke, U Penn). In my opinion, Bristol's department may not be as academically prestigious as St. Andrews'.

The Link: http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/overall.asp

Reply 5

Autumn Child

Thanks, it really helps sometimes to have other peoples input :biggrin:

I think I'm trying to find anything that might be a problem before I accept as firm so that I can be totally confident I've made the right decision.

Okay, good, so I'm pretty sure I really do want to go now :biggrin:

Reply 6

ChemistBoy

St Andrews is great in that you get to take a couple of subjects to a higher level. A lot of people (especially in the arts) tend not to be so settled on their choice of subject so it isn't as if they are just doing the modules because they have to. After all, you'll be doing the same thing in other subjects.

Reply 7

Autumn Child

ChemistBoy

After all, you'll be doing the same thing in other subjects.

i can imagine myself taking a subject to try it out and discovering that i actually find it boring...

but yeah, i agree with you now :smile:

Reply 8

oxymoronic

But even if its boring you still have to work for it, and in a way, if you find a subject boring you end up working harder at it to achieve results. For example I find some of my linguistics topics (which is my actual degree) really tedious, but as a result I find myself spending more time doing the readings and tutorial work than if I find the topic easy, because if I can do it I can get away without having done any prep work in the tutorials, whereas if its boring you have to prepare to get a good mark.

Think about which subjects you'd like to do before you arrive in September, then at your DOS meeting its just a case of finalising it all. At Edinburgh its simply a case of going through the prospectus and picking out things you find interesting, then perhaps doing a little research into what its like at degree level. Everyone had to have narrowed it down to 2/3 subjects before their DOS meeting in freshers week. You could also check out your timetable to see if there is a clash too, which was really useful, but obviously, St Andrews might be different in the way outside subjects are chosen.