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Repeated measure 1 way anova with two different groups and same intervention

Hi there,

On youtube I find plenty of videos explaining a repeated measure one way anova in SPSS. This design is for 1 group with 1 intervention with measurement before during and after the intervention.

Im looking for a repeated measure anova for two different groups with the same intervention given.

Repeated measure two way anova does not work because with two way anova you have two factors while I only have 1 dependent variable.

Factorial repeated measure anova (split plot or mixed between-within subjects) also does not work because with my research both groups undergo the same intervention.

Can someone please help?

Thanks!
Original post by Jeremy R
Hi there,

On youtube I find plenty of videos explaining a repeated measure one way anova in SPSS. This design is for 1 group with 1 intervention with measurement before during and after the intervention.

Im looking for a repeated measure anova for two different groups with the same intervention given.

Repeated measure two way anova does not work because with two way anova you have two factors while I only have 1 dependent variable.

Factorial repeated measure anova (split plot or mixed between-within subjects) also does not work because with my research both groups undergo the same intervention.

Can someone please help?

Thanks!


I'm afraid I'm finding it hard to see what your question is. Tell you what, try things the other way around and describe the problem that you are trying to analyse: what's the scientific question and what is the data that you have available?
Original post by Gregorius
I'm afraid I'm finding it hard to see what your question is. Tell you what, try things the other way around and describe the problem that you are trying to analyse: what's the scientific question and what is the data that you have available?


We have two groups: both have tears in the shoulder muscle, but one group has an intact shoulder cable and the other not. And we will give the same exercise program to both groups. We expect that the group with the intact cable will benefit more than the group without the intact cable. The outcome will be a questionnaire.

The problem we have is that we don't know wich test to use?
Reply 3
Original post by Gregorius
I'm afraid I'm finding it hard to see what your question is. Tell you what, try things the other way around and describe the problem that you are trying to analyse: what's the scientific question and what is the data that you have available?


Thank you for your reply!

Like Vercammenchris says:
We are going to analyze the effect of a rehab program on two different shoulder-patient-groups. Both groups have a different shoulder pathology and we want to know which group has the best result after the rehab program.

So we have two different groups and 1 intervention(the same rehab program).
We have 1 survey all the patients have to fill in before the intervention, during the intervention and after the intervention.
The result of the intervention is a score on 2100.

If we only had 1 group, I think we should do the Repeated Measure 1 way anova: dependent variables is the score on the survey and independent variable is the time we let them take the survey (0 weeks, 2 weeks and 4 weeks).
BUT we want to compare both groups after the SAME intervention is given...
(edited 6 years ago)
Do you think if you consider the rehabilitation a control variable that this may ease the confusion a bit? By definition, an independent factor needs to have more than one level, which this does not. Am I right in thinking that you're not concerned if the program works per se, but whether the patient group and when they take the questionnaire will have an effect on the effectiveness of the program?
Original post by Claros
Do you think if you consider the rehabilitation a control variable that this may ease the confusion a bit? By definition, an independent factor needs to have more than one level, which this does not. Am I right in thinking that you're not concerned if the program works per se, but whether the patient group and when they take the questionnaire will have an effect on the effectiveness of the program?


Indeed, the intervention is not an independent variable.
When they take the questionnaire will definitely have an impact on the effectiveness, we planned to do it at 0,2,4 and 6 weeks.
The hypothesis is that the group with the intact cable will have beter results, which study design or test to use is currently our problem we have to solve!
Reply 6
Original post by Claros
Do you think if you consider the rehabilitation a control variable that this may ease the confusion a bit? By definition, an independent factor needs to have more than one level, which this does not. Am I right in thinking that you're not concerned if the program works per se, but whether the patient group and when they take the questionnaire will have an effect on the effectiveness of the program?


We want to prove group A benifts more (better score on the survey) after the rehab program than group B.
Original post by Vercammenchris
Indeed, the intervention is not an independent variable.
When they take the questionnaire will definitely have an impact on the effectiveness, we planned to do it at 0,2,4 and 6 weeks.
The hypothesis is that the group with the intact cable will have beter results, which study design or test to use is currently our problem we have to solve!


Would a 2-factor mixed ANOVA not work then? The independent variables are the patient group (between factor) and the time the questionnaire is taken (within). Jeremy states that if you were only looking at one group, that you would use a repeated measures ANOVA which seems valid. So, the addition of a different group adds in a new between variable.

Anyone with better statistical knowledge feel free to chime in at any point and correct me.


Edit: Gregorius seems to be more knowledgeable on this subject than I am, so I would perhaps go with his advice.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Jeremy R
We want to prove group A benifts more (better score on the survey) after the rehab program than group B.


I must admit that this is one of those times where I would be inclined to make the analysis as simple as possible. You basically have a baseline measure on your subjects and you then have measurements while they are being treated and then after they are treated. It sounds to me that you may have a primary scientific question ("is there a difference between groups after treatment?") and a secondary scientific question ("is there a difference between groups during treatment?") rather than a single compound question. (What would that compound question be?)

With such a limited longitudinal aspect to the study, only three measurements per subject, you're hardly in a position to analyse the trajectories of subjects through the treatment.

So, perhaps the strategy should be to perform two analyses, one each for primary and secondary question. Simple linear regression (with, perhaps, a pre-transformation of the outcome variable if appropriate) where the outcome is the questionnaire score and the explanatory variables are baseline questionnaire score and subject group.
Original post by Gregorius
I must admit that this is one of those times where I would be inclined to make the analysis as simple as possible. You basically have a baseline measure on your subjects and you then have measurements while they are being treated and then after they are treated. It sounds to me that you may have a primary scientific question ("is there a difference between groups after treatment?":wink: and a secondary scientific question ("is there a difference between groups during treatment?":wink: rather than a single compound question. (What would that compound question be?)

With such a limited longitudinal aspect to the study, only three measurements per subject, you're hardly in a position to analyse the trajectories of subjects through the treatment.

So, perhaps the strategy should be to perform two analyses, one each for primary and secondary question. Simple linear regression (with, perhaps, a pre-transformation of the outcome variable if appropriate) where the outcome is the questionnaire score and the explanatory variables are baseline questionnaire score and subject group.


The most important question is: Is there a difference between groups after treatment.
The effect during treatment is less important.
If we only want to know the effect after, we just need a pre post test I think?
Than we have 1 independent variable (groups) and 1 dependent (outcome: questionnaire).
This seems easier than what you propose, but thank you for the answer because we were not able to find the right tests!

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