Thugs attack gay pride Watch

CoolCavy
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#21
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(Original post by Oxford Mum)
They obviously have nothing better to do in their sad, sad lives, Cavy. When I went to pride, you could just feel the love and support, but that was from the small town where I live.
Absolutely, that is one of the reasons i like pride so much - its always such a lovely atmosphere. Last year i saw everything from rainbow clad dalmations to people leaning out of their apartments waving flags as we marched past. If these people actually put aside their hate and opened their minds they would find that it is essentially a massive colourful party.
My parent is a methodist and i swear they love it more than me lol, they decorate their pride flag cape with butterfly brooches and stickers
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Oxford Mum
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I will be definitely be going next year! However I plan to be more creative, maybe get my face painted and a large flag to drape round myself! Many people were dressed up in support, whether they themselves were gay or not. I am glad to see that your placard waving homophobes were probably in the minority and I hope you feel the love at your own pride march.
(Original post by CoolCavy)
Absolutely, that is one of the reasons i like pride so much - its always such a lovely atmosphere. Last year i saw everything from rainbow clad dalmations to people leaning out of their apartments waving flags as we marched past. If these people actually put aside their hate and opened their minds they would find that it is essentially a massive colourful party.
My parent is a methodist and i swear they love it more than me lol, they decorate their pride flag cape with butterfly brooches and stickers
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
I'll play a little as a Devil's advocate here, and say that Imho it is exactly the opposite.
As much as I despise the far right, I actually talked to a lot of Polish far-right guys on the internet, some of who were clearly limited, and they were all saying they 'don't care what you do in your bed, but stop showing it up'. I understand, that these people feel endangered by the pride parades. Currently, the popular view in Poland is that while a certain culture might have some flaws, if it lasted for a long period of time, it means it's adapted to last, and LGBT is or might be a downfall factor. In these terms Islam is a 'better' culture, than the current European culture, because it's more vivid and likely to outlive Europe.
I'd say this actually supports my point rather than negating it. The summary of what you've said is that people think LGBT might be a downfall, and that people think it should be kept private - and yet, that's exactly the reason we have pride. Because neither of those are true, and neither of those are equality.
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the beer
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(Original post by Oxford Mum)
I don't know where to begin with these comments. Gay pride marchers are harming nobody.
Hmm, lots of sexual assault and harassment in my experience.

(Original post by Oxford Mum)
At the gay pride march where I live, there was no negativity, only love.
They're not all like that.
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by Oxford Mum)
I don't know where to begin with these comments. Gay pride marchers are harming nobody.
I didn't say they're harming anyone. I've been trying to explain that LGBT activism is seen as a threat. These thugs are suffering from what is called 'Siege mentality'. It's mainly the fault of the Church who's been telling them for the last two decades that homosexualism is bad, LGBT is devil etc.

Some agressive LGBT activists, dressed extremely inappropriately and shouting "Your children will be just like us!" are not helping either, they're only confirming their fears.

(Original post by Oxford Mum)
I have many gay friends, and they are the most lovely, inoffensive (I would even go so far as to say peaceful) people I have ever met. They are always delighted to meet me, and never make me feel uncomfortable because I am straight.
I'm okay with such people as well. Also, the second most powerful opposition politician in Poland by now is gay. That's not the point.



(Original post by shadowdweller)
I'd say this actually supports my point rather than negating it. The summary of what you've said is that people think LGBT might be a downfall, and that people think it should be kept private - and yet, that's exactly the reason we have pride. Because neither of those are true, and neither of those are equality.
Very well. Do you have any data or a logical argument or at least a personal observation to support your opinion?
Because we can differ in opinions, but if we'll be just saying; 'You're wrong', 'No, you're wrong!' we're not going to get anywhere.
You also can't determine whenever LGBT is or isn't a downfall factor. Even if that's actually verifiable, we'd need to wait two hundred years or sth. All we know is that sexual liberty was turning up in advanced civilizations during their decline periods.

The fact remains that such parades in Poland have actually been organised since 2002, and if I recall, it wasn't ever that bad, so the situation is actually getting worse
I think this problem won't be solved untill Pope Francis does an option 0 with the Polish church, kicking out all the backward and corrupt bishops, or untill the Polish rationalist circles won't re-educate the society against the Church. They're doing great job in the internet.

To make things clear: I'm not entirely if these parades are a bad idea, I'm only saying that so far they don't seem to work. And seeing how the affirmation agendas in the cinema, is actually pissing people off, I strongly suspect the parades might actually be counterproductive. Especially in Poland, where Siege mentality is common and vivid.
You must take into account, that what works in one country, doesn't necessarily have to work in another, because of cultural differences.
The cultural blindness of the West is directly responsible for triggering the Islamic revolution in Iran, the disastrous situation in Libya, and has done a great deal of damage to the situation in Syria.
'LGBT pride' is now war issue, but since there are doubts, if this actually works in the West, there should be even more doubts if it will work elsewhere.
Last edited by PTMalewski; 4 weeks ago
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
Very well. Do you have any data or a logical argument or at least a personal observation to support your opinion?
Because we can differ in opinions, but if we'll be just saying; 'You're wrong', 'No, you're wrong!' we're not going to get anywhere.
You also can't determine whenever LGBT is or isn't a downfall factor. Even if that's actually verifiable, we'd need to wait two hundred years or sth. All we know is that sexual liberty was turning up in advanced civilizations during their decline periods.

The fact remains that such parades in Poland have actually been organised since 2002, and if I recall, it wasn't ever that bad, so the situation is actually getting worse
I think this problem won't be solved untill Pope Francis does an option 0 with the Polish church, kicking out all the backward and corrupt bishops, or untill the Polish rationalist circles won't re-educate the society against the Church. They're doing great job in the internet.

To make things clear: I'm not entirely if these parades are a bad idea, I'm only saying that so far they don't seem to work. And seeing how the affirmation agendas in the cinema, is actually pissing people off, I strongly suspect the parades might actually be counterproductive. Especially in Poland, where Siege mentality is common and vivid.
You must take into account, that what works in one country, doesn't necessarily have to work in another, because of cultural differences.
The cultural blindness of the West is directly responsible for triggering the Islamic revolution in Iran, the disastrous situation in Libya, and has done a great deal of damage to the situation in Syria.
'LGBT pride' is now war issue, but since there are doubts, if this actually works in the West, there should be even more doubts if it will work elsewhere.
Could you clarify what you want me to provide evidence for, sorry?

Homosexuality has been around as long as humans has, and has been an accepted practice in societies for hundreds of years with no ill-effects, just :fyi:

Pride parades have also had huge successes outside of the West, and in many countries the first marches have been met with significantly better reception :yep:
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MidgetFever
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It saddens me that people are still struggling to be open minded about this kind of thing, or open to discrimination of any form for that matter.
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by shadowdweller)
Pride parades have also had huge successes outside of the West, and in many countries the first marches have been met with significantly better reception :yep:
How many times do I have to tell you, that the first march in Poland was in 2002? We have these marches every year, sometimes in a couple of cities simultaneously.
The journalists just didn't do their homework, as usual.

(Original post by shadowdweller)
Could you clarify what you want me to provide evidence for, sorry?
That LGBT parades help the LGBT community, instead of antagonizing people against LGBT. Pride parades are fuel for 'Siege mentality' syndrome in Poland, IMHO.

Even some gays in Poland claim they're against gay pride parades because such catch attention and all they want is to live their private lives, private.

(Original post by shadowdweller)
Homosexuality has been around as long as humans has, and has been an accepted practice in societies for hundreds of years with no ill-effects, just :fyi:
Yes, but nobody did brag about it.

(Original post by shadowdweller)
no ill-effects, just :fyi:
You should certainly read a couple of books on the philosophy of civilization, and others on how sexuality was consciously used in ancient Syracuse to control society as a whole.
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
How many times do I have to tell you, that the first march in Poland was in 2002? We have these marches every year, sometimes in a couple of cities simultaneously.
The journalists just didn't do their homework, as usual.
Neither I, nor the journalists, have stated that it's the first Pride in Poland - if you have a look through the article, they actuall specify that it's the first in that city, which I believe it is :yep:

(Original post by PTMalewski)
That LGBT parades help the LGBT community, instead of antagonizing people against LGBT. Pride parades are fuel for 'Siege mentality' syndrome in Poland, IMHO.
I would ask the same of you - can you provide evidence that it doesn't help the community?

Just a quick search would show you countless people who have found that pride helped them to accept who they are, helped them to come out, or helped them to find acceptance where they do not have it with their own family or friends. I don't have evidence in the form of written research papers, but I can tell you that it has helped so many LGBT+ people.

If people are feeling antagonized by it, that is an issue with them, and not with pride itself.

(Original post by PTMalewski)
Even some gays in Poland claim they're against gay pride parades because such catch attention and all they want is to live their private lives, private.
That really doesn't add anything to the argument - as with any group of people, LGBT+ people's views will differ, and that is neither here nor there when it comes to the topic of Pride marches.

(Original post by PTMalewski)
Yes, but nobody did brag about it.
Not true at all, it was very well documented in many cultures, and actually very common and socially significant.

(Original post by PTMalewski)
You should certainly read a couple of books on the philosophy of civilization, and others on how sexuality was consciously used in ancient Syracuse to control society as a whole.
If you can link me to some information on that, I'd gladly read up on it. From what you've said thus far, however, that sounds like it has very little to do with people being LGBT+ actually having a negative impact, and everything to do with people trying to control it having the impact.
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Oxford Mum
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I had a lovely surprise coming into work and seeing a huge rainbow banner in reception, along with flags everywhere.

We have people of all different creeds, colours and sexuality at work. We laugh, talk and help each other through the day. This is how work should be, and it’s the future. And yes, we do celebrate Ramadan as well
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gjd800
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Typical gob****e behavior
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looloo2134
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Your most likely find the people tried to attack Pride are very angry at the world their mostly in very low paid jobs or unemployed. In most forms of extremism (e.g. religious, left/right wing etc) you find the people are angry about the world and are social isolated it not happy people who become extremism.
(Original post by Oxford Mum)
I had a lovely surprise coming into work and seeing a huge rainbow banner in reception, along with flags everywhere.

We have people of all different creeds, colours and sexuality at work. We laugh, talk and help each other through the day. This is how work should be, and it’s the future. And yes, we do celebrate Ramadan as well
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Capitalist_Lamb
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(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
The first ever gay pride in the Polish city of Bialystok was attacked by thugs throwing bottles, stones and fire crackers.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190720...wing-hooligans

The article refers to them as Conservative campaigners, soccer hooligans, and ultra nationalists, although I prefer reactionary knuckle dragging baboons.

It’s a common refrain from some on TSR that we don’t need gay prides, but this is precisely why we do need them. Maybe one day gay people around the world can be open about their sexuality without fearing some utter ****e will lob a missile at them.
Dude what can I say. People in different countries (especially heavily religious ones) have verry different views. I don't agree with the attacking, I don't think anyone should be assulted for their beliefs. However, this happens far worse in middle eastern countires, where homosexuals are stoned, imprisioned or killed just for their beliefs. However, once again I do not see much being done to help these victims in their country. These marches will never help to normalise the beliefs of people in my personal opinion and only show the different between one another. I'm not sure what can be done to represent these people's belief and show them in a positive light to those who hate them but I don't think it's this.

No hate just a personal opinion.
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Palmyra
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Polish people are living in the dark ages with racism and homophobia rife in their increasingly radicalised right-wing society.
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inoubliable
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
Speaking of anecdotes, you know what my grandmother said in relation to being gay in Poland?
She said, and I remember this one exactly:
"In the old days, it was normal that boys who were good friends, were going back hown, holding each other's hands. Now it's impossible, they would probably be beaten".
Another thing that it brings to my mind, is that in old Polish documentaries and memories, adult men who were in friendly terms were often hugging each other, and casually refering to each other using diminutive terms. I don't hear or see that anymore.

My uncle also had a teacher of whom everybody knew he was gay, it was back in the 60ies. Nobody cared about it.
I honestly don't understand how this is contributing to what I said? Yes, perhaps in Poland this was the case. But not in the UK, the Americas, most of central Europe etc. When we fight for climate change, we don't fight for a better climate just in our country, but rather the whole world. Pride is still raising awareness about the many African and Asian countries that still criminalise and literally murder people for being LGBT. Alongside that, it's as I mentioned previously, your own special experience to remember the people who fought for your rights before you, across the whole world. A milestone in one country is the start in another. So, maybe Poland was oh-so-great, but the rest of the world wasn't. And so what if Poland was so accepting? Doesn't necessarily mean it's the case now. In the Soviet Union, being gay and LGBT was perfectly normal and accepted, and I believe at one point they either legalised gay marriage or came really close to it. Now look at Russia - one of the most homophobic countries in the world. Poland still has a long way to go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Poland
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Capitalist_Lamb
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You attack the right wing for their views but not religion. You lot think the whole right hate homosexuals and blacks which is very biased. There are extreemes at all ends of the political spectrum. There will always be a few who oppress others. You could say the exact same as the facist anti-facists antifa who oppresses people on the political right because of their beliefs just like these people are to homosexuals beliefs.
(Original post by Palmyra)
Polish people are living in the dark ages with racism and homophobia rife in their increasingly radicalised right-wing society.
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Vinny C
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Have no objection to gay people... still however think it wrong to shove it in people's faces.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Vinny C)
Have no objection to gay people... still however think it wrong to shove it in people's faces.
What do you consider to be "shoving it in people's faces"?
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Vinny C
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
What do you consider to be "shoving it in people's faces"?
Oh... hundreds of you on parade implying others are intolerant and bigoted. It's one thing to be tolerant, another to be reminded that you must somehow be wrong for not embracing it.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Vinny C)
Oh... hundreds of you on parade implying others are intolerant and bigoted. It's one thing to be tolerant, another to be reminded that you must somehow be wrong for not embracing it.
Still not sure how this is "shoving it in people's faces". It's not like you have to take part in these things.

I'm also not sure where you've got this idea from that if you don't take part in a pride parade then you're therefore wrong/intolerant/bigoted, etc (at least in the minds of LGBT people). I know lots of LGBT people who don't go to pride and nobody would give a **** if a straight person doesn't want to go to one.
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