Race: White, Black, Irish

I have often wondered why some Irish people say 'I have a black heart and I'm proud!'

Most Americans seek out some trace of Irish ancestry.

I doubt that.

Actually, it's "black protestants". It was common throughout the British Isles: the term was "indentured servant", they had rights slaves did not. Not many were sent to the West Indies- they died too quickly there- most went to the american continent. One of the reasons Australia was settled was to find somewhere to send convictts after America was lost.

Many of the early Americal settlers were Ulster prods, who thought the government in Ireland too tolerant of paists. The RC Irish only began to go to the USA in large numbers after 1800, especially after the potato famine. They were regarded with hatred and contempt by the earlier immigrants and- of course- found cause to hate and despise others- blacks, jews, slavs, other Europeans, the Chinese- as quickly as they could. A similar phenomenon took place in the UK. Irish people took up racism eagerly to identify themselves as "native" against oles, West Indians and Asians.

At the time, Ireland was in the same United Kingdom. It was a deliberate characterisation of "the Irish", not Ireland. see Roy Foster's Paddy abnd Mister Punch for more les.

I have often wondered why some Irish people say 'I have a black heart and I'm proud!'

Then I found out that the Irish were sent to the West Indies in slavery by the British as a penal sentence. Because they were not 'life long' slaves and would eventually be freed they were treated far more harshly than the black slaves who had to be kep well fed etc. because they were slaves for as long as they lived.

The Irish, after serving their time as slaves went to live in the US and this is when the 'anti-Irish' attitude came about. However, it was short lived and now Irish-Americans are in positions of authority and held in high esteem. Most Americans seek out some trace of Irish ancestry.

Regarding the British cartoons in the old 'Punch' - this is much more a case of mocking one's enemies to make them seem less of a threat. Punch has taken this line with all of Britains political enemies - it is not restricted to the Irish.

You're talking about penal colonies. This isn't slavery in the same way that blacks were slaves whereby the status of slavery followed from one generation to another.

You talk a right crock. Most Irish Americans didn't come to America after being released from Carribean penal colonies; I should imagine very few came to the America in such a manner. What books are you reading? I suggest you change your literary diet.

The only thing you're really right about is the amount of Americans that "claim" Irish ansestry which is matched only by the number of Americans who claim to have ansesters that were passengers on the Mayflower which suggests rather a lot of bullshit.

You're talking about penal colonies. This isn't slavery in the same way that blacks were slaves whereby the status of slavery followed from one generation to another.

You talk a right crock. Most Irish Americans didn't come to America after being released from Carribean penal colonies; I should imagine very few came to the America in such a manner. What books are you reading? I suggest you change your literary diet.

The only thing you're really right about is the amount of Americans that "claim" Irish ansestry which is matched only by the number of Americans who claim to have ansesters that were passengers on the Mayflower which suggests rather a lot of bullshit.

Have you had a 'look, see' at the link I provided? It is as unbiased as any historical account could be. The Irish who were sent to the West Indies lived an extremely bleak life - sure, they were to spend only 15 - 20 years in slavery but during that time they were very badly treated.

I don't like to deride the opinions of others in the same fashion as you unless I am absolutely sure of my facts. Are you sure of yours?

I'm not disputing they were sent to penal colonies in the Carribean as others were sent to Australia. I'm not disputing that life was bleak either. All I am saying is that I should have thought the vast majority of Irish ended up in America through mass migration caused by the potato famine etc rather than after having spent 15years on a penal colony.

I'm also saying that forced labour for a fixed period as punishment for a crime is not the same as slavery.

Incidentally, where did I say that MOST Irish Americans went to America from the 'slave' plantations of the West Indies?

You didn't. And I'm agreeing with what you didn't say but adding the opinion that so few Irish arrived in this manner as to make it a pretty insignificant topic for discussion; of passing interest only to a few crusty academics in courderoy jackets with patches on their sleeves.

How can you agree with something I DIDN'T say?

I can do anything!

It's amazing what one can learn whilst seaching on the internet!

It's amazing how unreliable internet sources are. If something can only be found on the internet it is usually because it is so unreliable or deranged that it is completely unpublishable.

I'd agree with that 100% Just because something is on a "computer" that's now reason to be "wowed" by it. On the contrary, any fool can publish any rubbish on the net while proclaiming themselves an "expert" A more dangerous source of information I cannot imagine.

I wonder why you doubt that most americans seek out some Irish ancestry? Can you explain please?

Here is a link, in the meantime for you to be looking at;

http://www.acs-onweb.de/hd/content/pres_c1_irish_americans/

even if we completely accept that source, which i wont, it says 40 million.

considering the population of america is 293 million, that means 13% have or claim to have irish ancestors.

how, if you'd care to explain, does 13% constitute "most" ?

"There's those who are Irish and there's the rest who want to be Irish"