# Anyone doing maths degree without further maths?

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I want to do a maths degree but haven’t done further maths, is it really hard? Would maths with a foundation year help?

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#2

Depends on where you want to go. For some places it’s a requirement. But otherwise it really would help to at least be familiar with the content. It comes up all the time in a maths degree and it’s will probably be assumed that you know it

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#3

Start by looking at the subject / grade requirements for Maths courses at a range of different Unis.

Some examples below.

Birmingham - https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/undergr...thematics.aspx

York - https://www.york.ac.uk/study/undergr...c-mathematics/

Sussex - https://www.sussex.ac.uk/study/under...athematics-bsc

Some examples below.

Birmingham - https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/undergr...thematics.aspx

York - https://www.york.ac.uk/study/undergr...c-mathematics/

Sussex - https://www.sussex.ac.uk/study/under...athematics-bsc

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#4

Cambridge - https://www.undergraduate.study.cam....es/mathematics

The Maths Tripos needs Further Maths. But you could argue you're an exceptional case (though the chance is slim)

Alternatively IB Higher Level Mathematics (preferably AA) in IB (basically A-level math)

So even without Further Math in these universities you're not doomed. If you want a PhD in maths who will care if you've done Further Maths in A-level?

The Maths Tripos needs Further Maths. But you could argue you're an exceptional case (though the chance is slim)

Alternatively IB Higher Level Mathematics (preferably AA) in IB (basically A-level math)

So even without Further Math in these universities you're not doomed. If you want a PhD in maths who will care if you've done Further Maths in A-level?

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#5

(Original post by

Cambridge - https://www.undergraduate.study.cam....es/mathematics

The Maths Tripos needs Further Maths. But you could argue you're an exceptional case (though the chance is slim)

Alternatively IB Higher Level Mathematics (preferably AA) in IB (basically A-level math)

So even without Further Math in these universities you're not doomed. If you want a PhD in maths who will care if you've done Further Maths in A-level?

**justlearning1469**)Cambridge - https://www.undergraduate.study.cam....es/mathematics

The Maths Tripos needs Further Maths. But you could argue you're an exceptional case (though the chance is slim)

Alternatively IB Higher Level Mathematics (preferably AA) in IB (basically A-level math)

So even without Further Math in these universities you're not doomed. If you want a PhD in maths who will care if you've done Further Maths in A-level?

(Original post by

I want to do a maths degree but haven’t done further maths, is it really hard? Would maths with a foundation year help?

**Mathstarget10**)I want to do a maths degree but haven’t done further maths, is it really hard? Would maths with a foundation year help?

a) you've only experienced studying maths as 33% of what you're doing - going on to spending 100% of your time studying it is a big leap, and you may find it's not your cup of tea

b) the topics form A-level that are probably going to come up a lot in degree level maths (other than calculus) are mostly covered in FM (i.e. matrices, complex numbers, a few other selected topics). So not having that background puts you on a bit of a backseat, even if you are due to learn it in the course anyway, and again you won't have exposure to that before so you can't make as good a judgement as to whether degree level maths is something you want to pursue.

A maths with foundation year course is probably more designed for people without even A-level Maths, although they might cover some FM content in it depending on the structure. You would probably be better off just taking a gap year and sitting FM as an independent candidate though in that case.

As per my comment in your other thread though, fundamentally degree level maths is just so different to A-level. I'd recommend you see if you can look at some degree level textbook e.g. an introductory analysis textbook (or something like Spivak's Calculus), or an introductory linear algebra (if it's abstract/proof based) or abstract algebra textbook. Munkres' "Topology: A First Course" has a chapter zero which introduces a lot of concepts used widely in (degree level) pure maths which are quite foundational, but which should be accessible to a school student, and are in the same kind of style that degree level maths is done in, so that might also be worth a look if you can find a copy somewhere online or in a library (the rest of it not so much though as it will presuppose a fair bit of analysis and maybe linear algebra I expect).

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(Original post by

I seriously doubt Cambridge maths accepts anyone without A-level FM except in the most extraordinary cases where it's not available to the student and they demonstrate comparable ability somehow.

In a sense it may not matter as much because a lot of degree level maths is so different to A-level anyway; the main issues are

a) you've only experienced studying maths as 33% of what you're doing - going on to spending 100% of your time studying it is a big leap, and you may find it's not your cup of tea

b) the topics form A-level that are probably going to come up a lot in degree level maths (other than calculus) are mostly covered in FM (i.e. matrices, complex numbers, a few other selected topics). So not having that background puts you on a bit of a backseat, even if you are due to learn it in the course anyway, and again you won't have exposure to that before so you can't make as good a judgement as to whether degree level maths is something you want to pursue.

A maths with foundation year course is probably more designed for people without even A-level Maths, although they might cover some FM content in it depending on the structure. You would probably be better off just taking a gap year and sitting FM as an independent candidate though in that case.

As per my comment in your other thread though, fundamentally degree level maths is just so different to A-level. I'd recommend you see if you can look at some degree level textbook e.g. an introductory analysis textbook (or something like Spivak's Calculus), or an introductory linear algebra (if it's abstract/proof based) or abstract algebra textbook. Munkres' "Topology: A First Course" has a chapter zero which introduces a lot of concepts used widely in (degree level) pure maths which are quite foundational, but which should be accessible to a school student, and are in the same kind of style that degree level maths is done in, so that might also be worth a look if you can find a copy somewhere online or in a library (the rest of it not so much though as it will presuppose a fair bit of analysis and maybe linear algebra I expect).

**artful_lounger**)I seriously doubt Cambridge maths accepts anyone without A-level FM except in the most extraordinary cases where it's not available to the student and they demonstrate comparable ability somehow.

In a sense it may not matter as much because a lot of degree level maths is so different to A-level anyway; the main issues are

a) you've only experienced studying maths as 33% of what you're doing - going on to spending 100% of your time studying it is a big leap, and you may find it's not your cup of tea

b) the topics form A-level that are probably going to come up a lot in degree level maths (other than calculus) are mostly covered in FM (i.e. matrices, complex numbers, a few other selected topics). So not having that background puts you on a bit of a backseat, even if you are due to learn it in the course anyway, and again you won't have exposure to that before so you can't make as good a judgement as to whether degree level maths is something you want to pursue.

A maths with foundation year course is probably more designed for people without even A-level Maths, although they might cover some FM content in it depending on the structure. You would probably be better off just taking a gap year and sitting FM as an independent candidate though in that case.

As per my comment in your other thread though, fundamentally degree level maths is just so different to A-level. I'd recommend you see if you can look at some degree level textbook e.g. an introductory analysis textbook (or something like Spivak's Calculus), or an introductory linear algebra (if it's abstract/proof based) or abstract algebra textbook. Munkres' "Topology: A First Course" has a chapter zero which introduces a lot of concepts used widely in (degree level) pure maths which are quite foundational, but which should be accessible to a school student, and are in the same kind of style that degree level maths is done in, so that might also be worth a look if you can find a copy somewhere online or in a library (the rest of it not so much though as it will presuppose a fair bit of analysis and maybe linear algebra I expect).

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#7

**artful_lounger**)

I seriously doubt Cambridge maths accepts anyone without A-level FM except in the most extraordinary cases where it's not available to the student and they demonstrate comparable ability somehow.

In a sense it may not matter as much because a lot of degree level maths is so different to A-level anyway; the main issues are

a) you've only experienced studying maths as 33% of what you're doing - going on to spending 100% of your time studying it is a big leap, and you may find it's not your cup of tea

b) the topics form A-level that are probably going to come up a lot in degree level maths (other than calculus) are mostly covered in FM (i.e. matrices, complex numbers, a few other selected topics). So not having that background puts you on a bit of a backseat, even if you are due to learn it in the course anyway, and again you won't have exposure to that before so you can't make as good a judgement as to whether degree level maths is something you want to pursue.

A maths with foundation year course is probably more designed for people without even A-level Maths, although they might cover some FM content in it depending on the structure. You would probably be better off just taking a gap year and sitting FM as an independent candidate though in that case.

As per my comment in your other thread though, fundamentally degree level maths is just so different to A-level. I'd recommend you see if you can look at some degree level textbook e.g. an introductory analysis textbook (or something like Spivak's Calculus), or an introductory linear algebra (if it's abstract/proof based) or abstract algebra textbook. Munkres' "Topology: A First Course" has a chapter zero which introduces a lot of concepts used widely in (degree level) pure maths which are quite foundational, but which should be accessible to a school student, and are in the same kind of style that degree level maths is done in, so that might also be worth a look if you can find a copy somewhere online or in a library (the rest of it not so much though as it will presuppose a fair bit of analysis and maybe linear algebra I expect).

Also thanks for the recommendations of textbooks.

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#8

For books

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Study-M.../dp/191301911X

and

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Towards-Hig.../dp/1316614832

Are both pretty good about going into/preparing for Univesity maths. To echo some of the comments above, if a course does not require further maths, they can't assume all students have it so will have to cover any relevant material on the course. You may be playing catch up a bit at the start compared to kids who have further maths, but it would be doable and wouldn't really affect you longer term.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Study-M.../dp/191301911X

and

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Towards-Hig.../dp/1316614832

Are both pretty good about going into/preparing for Univesity maths. To echo some of the comments above, if a course does not require further maths, they can't assume all students have it so will have to cover any relevant material on the course. You may be playing catch up a bit at the start compared to kids who have further maths, but it would be doable and wouldn't really affect you longer term.

Last edited by mqb2766; 1 month ago

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