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Schools encouraged to scrap gendered language like Sir and Miss

https://www.lbc.co.uk/hot-topics/schools/scrap-sir-miss-adopt-gender-neutral-language-schools/

In a lecture organised by the National Education Union (NEU), Dr Elly Banes, chief executive of the Educate & Celebrate charity, said schools should aim to become more gender neutral - a model she said was "working very well" in a lot of schools.

Dr Barnes said teachers should be referred to as "teacher" or "headteacher", followed by their surname.

The advice was not limited to teachers, and ‘head boy’ could be replaced by ‘head pupil’ in future.
(edited 1 year ago)

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Yes! At last!
I have always despised calling teachers miss and sir. And having to call teachers by mr/mrs/miss their last name. It’s a part of almost every schools authoritarian regime of everyone being required to do as they are told without question. Teachers can talk over students and not get a detention, they don’t have to wear a uniform, they often leave the class etc etc, things that the pupils aren’t allowed to do under most circumstances. It would be like if the government imposed lockdowns and other covid restrictions on the people of britain and then had illegal parties throughout
‘teachers should ask students what their preferred pronouns are when they first meet.’
It’s a religious inquisition.
If the Tories had the sense to stand up to the onward march of the woke religion on principle they would walk the next election, regardless of partygate.

Up next.... no more Mr or Mrs.
(edited 1 year ago)
Schools have not been told. Someone of little relevance has suggest it.

But such details should not get in the way of identity politics obsessives and their need for their daily dose of outrage.

Although I’ve always found it a little weird that “Miss” is used to address a person in a position of authority.
Original post by Crazed cat lady
Although I’ve always found it a little weird that “Miss” is used to address a person in a position of authority.

Why? What do you think they should use instead?
Original post by tazarooni89
Why? What do you think they should use instead?


Miss is used for girls or unmarried women. I’m surprised I need to explain why this is problematic when addressing a married 50 year old woman, particularly when the male version “Sir” does not carry the same connotations.
Original post by Crazed cat lady
Miss is used for girls or unmarried women. I’m surprised I need to explain why this is problematic when addressing a married 50 year old woman, particularly when the male version “Sir” does not carry the same connotations.


In our school, we addressed married female teachers as "Mrs" all the time. I thought that was standard.
Original post by Crazed cat lady
Miss is used for girls or unmarried women. I’m surprised I need to explain why this is problematic when addressing a married 50 year old woman, particularly when the male version “Sir” does not carry the same connotations.

I see. Correct me if I'm wrong but from, your post it sounded like you found it problematic to address any woman in authority this way, as opposed to just older or married women.

Again I wonder what you think should be used instead.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by Joel 96
In our school, we addressed married female teachers as "Mrs" all the time. I thought that was standard.

tbf it was quite common in my scl to have everyone referred to as either "sir" or "miss" (w/o the surname).
Original post by Obolinda
tbf it was quite common in my scl to have everyone referred to as either "sir" or "miss" (w/o the surname).


Okay, good to know.

Well, I don't know if it's really a problem. It's not like the word "Miss" undermines the teacher's sense of authority or anything.
Doesn't bother me. I've never understood the purpose of titles like 'Mr', 'Mrs', 'Sir', 'Miss', etc.

In hindsight it feels weird how we had to refer to our teachers using them. I've never needed used them an adult, it would feel gross having to call a manager or senior leader in my company 'Sir' or 'Miss'. 😂
Original post by SHallowvale
Doesn't bother me. I've never understood the purpose of titles like 'Mr', 'Mrs', 'Sir', 'Miss', etc.

In hindsight it feels weird how we had to refer to our teachers using them. I've never needed used them an adult, it would feel gross having to call a manager or senior leader in my company 'Sir' or 'Miss'. 😂


To be honest, I've never really thought about it before. Having been a trainee teacher, I kind of understand the purpose of the titles. They seem to get the kids to perceive you as a person of authority. If they were calling you by your first name, for example, then there's the worry that they'll perceive you as a friend-like figure since you're creating an informal atmosphere.

That's just how I see it. If people ITT have alternate proposals to the standard titles, then I'm happy to hear them.
Original post by SHallowvale
Doesn't bother me. I've never understood the purpose of titles like 'Mr', 'Mrs', 'Sir', 'Miss', etc.

In hindsight it feels weird how we had to refer to our teachers using them. I've never needed used them an adult, it would feel gross having to call a manager or senior leader in my company 'Sir' or 'Miss'. 😂


I suppose the purpose of it is to help children recognise that their relationship with their teachers is a formal one, and that the teacher has a position of authority over them.

It's a little bit different to modern office culture. A manager in an office isn't really an authority figure as such, in that you have to follow their orders at all times, but rather a colleague / teammate who happen to have higher order responsibilities when it comes to doing the job. But in some other workplace environments (e.g. military, police force, doctors in a hospital etc.) you'd be less likely to hear a senior person referred to by just their first name.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by tazarooni89
I suppose the purpose of it is to help children recognise that their relationship with their teachers is a formal one, and that the teacher has a position of authority over them.

It's a little bit different to modern office culture. A manager in an office isn't really an authority figure as such, in that you have to follow their orders at all times, but rather a colleague / teammate who happen to have higher order responsibilities when it comes to doing the job. But in some other workplace environments (e.g. military, police force, doctors in a hospital etc.) you'd be less likely to hear a senior person referred to by just their first name.

Do I not, though? Within reason, what my manager (or anyone senior) tells me to do is pretty much what I have to do. I don't see how this is much different to that of a student-teacher relationship. My manager isn't simply someone who has more responsibilities, they also direct my workload and instruct me on certain things that need doing.
Original post by SHallowvale
Do I not, though? Within reason, what my manager (or anyone senior) tells me to do is pretty much what I have to do. I don't see how this is much different to that of a student-teacher relationship. My manager isn't simply someone who has more responsibilities, they also direct my workload and instruct me on certain things that need doing.

I think that's true to an extent, but not the same extent it would be in a student-teacher relationship. Of course you'd have to follow your manager's instructions when it comes to the actual work at hand; but say if you're both on your lunch break or if you're at an after-work drinks, you'd kind of leave that relationship behind and become more like equals, wouldn't you? Whereas with a schoolteacher, you have to follow a lot more of their rules and instruction than those related to learning the subject they teach.

(I'm just speaking from my own experience here, perhaps you work somewhere very different from where I do).
i edited your thread title a bit as Sir and Miss are not gender neutral :smile:

other than that i don't have much of an opinion. what was the lecturer's reasoning to use gender neutral language instead of Sir and Miss? like, what's the benefit? i couldn't find it in the link but perhaps i missed it.
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Napp
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Meh, fairly uninteresting. Although, i doubt many people care about the 'gendering' of the words given it seems to be solely an issue for strange activist sorts with little better to do than complain about their being sexes.
On the flip side, i never really liked calling teachers 'sir', it giving the distinct impression of a master//servant relationship.

Calling someone, as they say in the article, 'teacher smith', as a form of address, seems rather clunky and odd though.
(edited 1 year ago)
No thanks, I will stick with sir and miss, it's just faster
Women teachers were called ma'am at my school, men were sir.

In my current job, the southern lady I work with calls our boss sir but I just call him by his first name.

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