Could potential deal with Spain harm Brexit?

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Reply 80

username5944912

Original post by StriderHort

Why can't it be one of those religions that involves volcanoes and mass sacrifice :borat:

I knew there were some details missing from Priti Patel’s Christmas card.

Reply 81

SHallowvale

Original post by PilgrimOfTruth

Just lols

So at the next election, if Labour win, you think it would be ok to keep Labour out of No 10 for say the next 3 years and then to have another election and if the Tories win, then in they go straight away, so a Labour government is never actually delivered. Super stuff !

Just lols

Brexit has been delivered. We are allowed to say it was a terrible idea and has been terrible for the UK's economy. We are also allowed to say we should rejoin the EU sometime in future, or relax the restrictions our Brexit-fanatical government has imposed.

Reply 82

Rakas21

The Brexit agreement is already too soft and the current Tory establishment already too tame in taking advantage. I'm not sure why anybody would wish to destroy that further.

Reply 83

WADR

Original post by StriderHort

Why can't it be one of those religions that involves volcanoes and mass sacrifice :borat:

Brexit was indeed an act of mass immolation. The complete destruction of society is a small price to pay to "gEt BrExIt DoNe!1"
It's like an End Times cult.

Reply 84

WADR

Original post by PilgrimOfTruth

So at the next election, if Labour win, you think it would be ok to keep Labour out of No 10 for say the next 3 years and then to have another election and if the Tories win, then in they go straight away, so a Labour government is never actually delivered. Super stuff !

Oh dear, you still aren't getting this, are you.

At the next election, if Labour win, it will be ok (nay, expected) that the Tories will oppose, criticise and protest every Labour policy and initiative, and do their damnedest to disrupt and thwart their plans (within the bounds of what is legal).

You really don't understand how a democracy works, do you?

Brexit has been/is being delivered. A withdrawal agreement was negotiated by Brexiteers and agreed upon. We have left the EU. We are no longer part of the single market. We have taken back control (lol). As I said, try to cross a border, work in Spain, export to Germany, even send a parcel to France. You have have what you voted for. It is not our problem that you don't like it.

Reply 85

SHallowvale

Original post by Rakas21

The Brexit agreement is already too soft and the current Tory establishment already too tame in taking advantage. I'm not sure why anybody would wish to destroy that further.

Too soft!? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Reply 86

imlikeahermit

Original post by Rakas21

The Brexit agreement is already too soft and the current Tory establishment already too tame in taking advantage. I'm not sure why anybody would wish to destroy that further.

Oh wow. So diggings ones grave wasn’t enough and you wish to start a mausoleum? Deluded.

Reply 87

londonmyst

Original post by Rakas21

The Brexit agreement is already too soft and the current Tory establishment already too tame in taking advantage.

PRSOM.

Reply 88

hotpud

Rather a long rambling post so I will pick up only on two points.

Original post by PilgrimOfTruth

It really was not a complicated issue at all that we were voting for. Leave the EU. Clear and simple.

It really isn't. Imagine voting to leave your mortgage or your job. You can't just walk away from a contractual agreement. You still have obligations. Similarly with the EU except the obligations we had / have with Europe are massive. You seem to have forgotten this. Legal contracts don't just fizzle into thin air if one party decides they don't like it. If that were the case, we would live in anarchy.

Original post by PilgrimOfTruth

Lol. No it isn't. It's about voting and delivering what the people voted for.

What did people vote for? They voted for the slogan "Get Brexit done". Boris didn't know what the meant. Nor did the electorate and nor do you. You say it is simply but with all due respect I don't think you have a clue. I certainly don't, but I do know it isn't simple and would never claim so.

We are on the edge of a very dark period of history. Decline, recession and even greater inequalities in our society are now inevitable. Is that what you voted for too?

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 89

hotpud

Original post by Ark-4

Regardless of whether one supported remain or leave the EU referendum had a clear majority and the two general elections after the referendum verified by 100% the result in 2016

I totally acknowledge all of that. Doesn't mean it was right, that people were hoodwinked or just down right ignorant.

In the world of politics, people are allowed to change their minds. I believe there is a growing tide of people who now acknowledge it was a bad idea. That is going to get bigger and bigger as we fail to materialise all the so called benefits of Brexit. I am still waiting for someone to tell us how we are better off. From what I can see, the only benefits so far are bankers bonuses and the ability for ministers, not parliament to burn "red tape" of the sort that protects workers and human rights etc.

It feels like the Tories want to take us back to Victorian times when workers had no rights and worked piecemeal. You know, like Uber drivers and gig economy workers.

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 90

hotpud

Original post by Ark-4

You are allowed to change your mind. But this didn't happen in the subsequent two general elections after the referendum.

So what is right and wrong is quite subjective. It seems that the majority of the population still thinks the EU vote was right.

Tories? The EU referendum was won by the leave campaign by at least 40% of the labour voters voting to leave the EU. If we have another referendum the results will be similar.

I think that is changing. If things keep going the way they are, the first major casualty of Brexit will be the Tory party which is looking like it will be utterly decimated in the next general election. We can only hope Labour are brave enough to reveal what has actually happened because frankly, this has to be one of the biggest cons in British history. The Tory party have done the equivalent of getting turkeys to vote for Xmas. The only people who have benefitted are the super wealthy, Everyone else has been shafted.

And the irony of it is that folks like yourself and Pilgram don't seem interested in talking about the consequences of Brexit. For you it is more about the fact you won a vote. I have asked so many times on here, but I am still to hear just one benefit of Brexit. Just one. And BTW - I don't consider giving bankers bigger bonuses a benefit.

Reply 91

hotpud

Original post by Ark-4

If you want to talk about the consequences of Brexit that's another conversation. Spain cannot pick and choose which laws suit them best and neither does the UK. Trying to change a democratic result is a much more serious issue.

Typical distraction away from the simple question of how has Brexit benefitted us. There are no benefits hence it can not be answered.

Is a deal with Spain good? Of course it is. We holiday in Spain and import lots of food from there. Free trade is always better than paid trade. No doubt any resultant deal will be a bodge that still leaves us worse off than before. Not really sure why the question asks if it harms Brexit though. A bit like saying do you think the medication and dressing will harm my ability to get gangrene.

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 92

WADR

Original post by Ark-4

Both general elections since the referendum verified the result and the message was clear. The British electorate in their majority wanted the country to leave the EU and implement the various policies compatible with the leave vote.

Neither election was a single-issue referendum. There are plenty of Remainer Tories who still voted Tory, because they are Tories. The reality is that a majority of the people would now vote Remain, regardless of their party affiliation.
But as Scotland voted overwhelmingly for Remain, and for a pro-rejoin party in both subsequent elections, would you agree that for democracy and the will of the people to be respected, Scotland should be allowed to rejoin the EU, or at least negotiate a deal allowing some of the benefits of membership, not unlike NI?

Reply 93

WADR

Original post by Ark-4

the two general elections after the referendum verified by 100% the result in 2016

What does that even mean?

Reply 94

WADR

Original post by Ark-4

It seems that the majority of the population still thinks the EU vote was right.

"As of December 2022, 51 percent of people in Great Britain thought that it was wrong to leave the European Union, compared with 34 percent who thought it was the right decision." - Statista

"The wider public now think Britain was wrong to leave the European Union by 56% to 32%" - YouGov

"43% of the British population consider that the UK's departure from the European Union was a good decision, while 57% believe it was a mistake" - British Polling Council

Hope this helped.

Reply 95

WADR

Original post by Ark-4

No. Unfortunately the people who don't understand how democracy works are those who try to overturn the results of the referendum.

Ironically, it is those who think that people cannot oppose, protest or campaign against governments and policies they disagree with, who are the one who din't understand democracy.
Democracy means that if people change their minds on an issue, it can be reflected in policy. The idea that because a vote went a certain way over six years ago, that the issue is fixed in perpetuity is just laughable.
Basically Leavers are like children in the playground shouting "no returns!" after doing something.

A government that is elected on a pro-EU platform and subsequently rejoins the EU is not, in any way, "undemocratic". :rofl:

Also the referendum was a consultative exercise. The result was not legally binding. You may not be aware but governments regularly go back on promises they made in their manifesto. Any change to Brexit is simply just another change in policy. Nothing more.

Reply 96

WADR

Original post by Ark-4

If you want to talk about the consequences of Brexit that's another conversation.

Trying to change a democratic result is a much more serious issue.

So you believe there should only have ever been the one, initial general election. Every subsequent one is "trying to change a democratic result". :rofl:

Reply 97

WADR