Which race was Queen Cleopatra?
Is there any reason to think she isn't Greek and Egyptian? Just read the controversy over the Netflix stuff and I'm wondering if anyone has any knowledge to share.
Scroll to see replies
Original post by PossiblyNotGod
Is there any reason to think she isn't Greek and Egyptian? Just read the controversy over the Netflix stuff and I'm wondering if anyone has any knowledge to share.
According to Wikipedia:
The race of Cleopatra VII, the last active Hellenistic ruler of the Macedonian-led Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt, has caused some debate in some circles.[2][3] There is a general consensus among scholars that she was predominantly of Macedonian Greek ancestry and minorly of Iranian descent. Others, including scholars and laymen, have publicly speculated on whether she may have had additional ancestries.[3][4][5]
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_race_controversy
Having said that, there is no genetic evidence to say which race Cleopatra was. There is no DNA to work with.
Also, in the ancient world races mixed quite a lot in the Mediterranean area; they didn't really care much for differences in races. People also moved around a lot; no one empire really stayed in one place throughout history (I can point out various lineages in British history for example, despite being on an island and mainly isolated from the rest of Europe since the recent ice ages).
A lot of the material out there is theoretical, so for all we know she is just as much as of any other ethnicity as Egyptian or Greek. Egyptian also isn't strictly one race as it can be a mixture of ethnicities. For example, there is evidence of people in Egypt having red hair, hair colour predominantly associated with those of Irish and Russian origins.
I personally care less about PC and what the woke culture think and more about what is factually correct. When I read about history, I care more about what the person did as opposed to what race they were anyway - people don't write the history of a person because of his/her race.
Original post by PossiblyNotGod
Is there any reason to think she isn't Greek and Egyptian? Just read the controversy over the Netflix stuff and I'm wondering if anyone has any knowledge to share.
Queen Cleopatra was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, which was of Greek origin and ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great's death. So, Cleopatra was of Greek descent and not of Egyptian or any other race.
Human. 
She probably was of mixed racial ancestry with ancestors whose ethnicities were connected with ancient asian and middle eastern civilizations as well as ancient greece.
She probably was of mixed racial ancestry with ancestors whose ethnicities were connected with ancient asian and middle eastern civilizations as well as ancient greece.
Original post by PossiblyNotGod
Is there any reason to think she isn't Greek and Egyptian? Just read the controversy over the Netflix stuff and I'm wondering if anyone has any knowledge to share.
As far as I know she had Macedonian ancestors and was grown up in Egypt. It is said that was the daughter of a general who fought with Alexander The Great in many battles. So strictly speaking, she is not a Greek. Macedonia and Greek are different!
White
Modern day Greeks are considered White therefore she was white she's was probably whiter than the average Greek today
Modern day Greeks are considered White therefore she was white she's was probably whiter than the average Greek today
Original post by Kallisto
As far as I know she had Macedonian ancestors and was grown up in Egypt. It is said that was the daughter of a general who fought with Alexander The Great in many battles. So strictly speaking, she is not a Greek. Macedonia and Greek are different!
How? Macedonia is a state in Greece its like saying being Spartan and Greek are different
Original post by PossiblyNotGod
Is there any reason to think she isn't Greek and Egyptian? Just read the controversy over the Netflix stuff and I'm wondering if anyone has any knowledge to share.
Cleopatra not being Greek is a new age debate that only arised over the past decades it mainly exists because a certain group of black people claim ancient Egyptians were all black(Sub-Saharan African)
Original post by MindMax2000
According to Wikipedia:
The race of Cleopatra VII, the last active Hellenistic ruler of the Macedonian-led Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt, has caused some debate in some circles.[2][3] There is a general consensus among scholars that she was predominantly of Macedonian Greek ancestry and minorly of Iranian descent. Others, including scholars and laymen, have publicly speculated on whether she may have had additional ancestries.[3][4][5]
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_race_controversy
Having said that, there is no genetic evidence to say which race Cleopatra was. There is no DNA to work with.
Also, in the ancient world races mixed quite a lot in the Mediterranean area; they didn't really care much for differences in races. People also moved around a lot; no one empire really stayed in one place throughout history (I can point out various lineages in British history for example, despite being on an island and mainly isolated from the rest of Europe since the recent ice ages).
A lot of the material out there is theoretical, so for all we know she is just as much as of any other ethnicity as Egyptian or Greek. Egyptian also isn't strictly one race as it can be a mixture of ethnicities. For example, there is evidence of people in Egypt having red hair, hair colour predominantly associated with those of Irish and Russian origins.
I personally care less about PC and what the woke culture think and more about what is factually correct. When I read about history, I care more about what the person did as opposed to what race they were anyway - people don't write the history of a person because of his/her race.
The race of Cleopatra VII, the last active Hellenistic ruler of the Macedonian-led Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt, has caused some debate in some circles.[2][3] There is a general consensus among scholars that she was predominantly of Macedonian Greek ancestry and minorly of Iranian descent. Others, including scholars and laymen, have publicly speculated on whether she may have had additional ancestries.[3][4][5]
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_race_controversy
Having said that, there is no genetic evidence to say which race Cleopatra was. There is no DNA to work with.
Also, in the ancient world races mixed quite a lot in the Mediterranean area; they didn't really care much for differences in races. People also moved around a lot; no one empire really stayed in one place throughout history (I can point out various lineages in British history for example, despite being on an island and mainly isolated from the rest of Europe since the recent ice ages).
A lot of the material out there is theoretical, so for all we know she is just as much as of any other ethnicity as Egyptian or Greek. Egyptian also isn't strictly one race as it can be a mixture of ethnicities. For example, there is evidence of people in Egypt having red hair, hair colour predominantly associated with those of Irish and Russian origins.
I personally care less about PC and what the woke culture think and more about what is factually correct. When I read about history, I care more about what the person did as opposed to what race they were anyway - people don't write the history of a person because of his/her race.
Inbreeding was common amongst Egyptian royalty so the chances of her having non Greek blood are already minimal. We can definitely say she was Mediterranean but we cant apply modern day social constructs like race to ancient societies it's dumb af. We know what her origin is the place she ruled, who she loved and where she was born and that's substantial information to determine what she looked like
Original post by mqb2766
Saying Cleopatra was Greek/Macedonian is a bit like saying King Charles is German (Saxe-Coburg). After 250 years, things get a bit messy.
Charles is Germanic all anglo-saxoners are Germanic so technically he is German and Cleo was macedonian(Greek) ethnically
Original post by username001345
Charles is Germanic all anglo-saxoners are Germanic so technically he is German and Cleo was macedonian(Greek) ethnically
Thats one ancestral line. 250 years is probably more than 8 generations so theyd both have more than 256* ancestors from that time.
* Inbreeding may reduce this number.
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by mqb2766
Thats one ancestral line. 250 years is probably more than 8 generations so theyd both have more than 256* ancestors from that time.
* Inbreeding may reduce this number.
* Inbreeding may reduce this number.
Well they did inbreed and she spoke greek there were most likely more greeks in egypt as it was quite multicultural and Greeks famously studied in egypt.
So the chances are still high
Original post by Kallisto
As far as I know she had Macedonian ancestors and was grown up in Egypt. It is said that was the daughter of a general who fought with Alexander The Great in many battles.
The Ptolemaic dynasty were descended from one of Alexander the Great's generals, Ptolemy son of Lagus.
It is possible that Ptolemy and Alexander the Great were half brothers.
The descendants of Ptolemy ruled ancient Egypt for almost 3 centuries and maintained a very long tradition of endogamous marriages between siblings. Mostly half-siblings, occasionally twins or other full siblings.
Lagus married Arsinoe, a member of the ancient royal house of Temenid and former mistress of Alexander the Great's father Philip II.
Members of the house of Temenid were of Dorian ancient greek tribal descent, as were were their close relatives who founded the royal Argead dynasty that ruled ancient Macedonia from around 700-310BC.
Human.
/thread
/thread
Original post by PossiblyNotGod
Is there any reason to think she isn't Greek and Egyptian? Just read the controversy over the Netflix stuff and I'm wondering if anyone has any knowledge to share.
She was Greek. Ancient Egyptians were black.
Original post by londonmyst
The Ptolemaic dynasty were descended from one of Alexander the Great's generals, Ptolemy son of Lagus.
It is possible that Ptolemy and Alexander the Great were half brothers.
The descendants of Ptolemy ruled ancient Egypt for almost 3 centuries and maintained a very long tradition of endogamous marriages between siblings. Mostly half-siblings, occasionally twins or other full siblings.
Lagus married Arsinoe, a member of the ancient royal house of Temenid and former mistress of Alexander the Great's father Philip II.
Members of the house of Temenid were of Dorian ancient greek tribal descent, as were were their close relatives who founded the royal Argead dynasty that ruled ancient Macedonia from around 700-310BC.
It is possible that Ptolemy and Alexander the Great were half brothers.
The descendants of Ptolemy ruled ancient Egypt for almost 3 centuries and maintained a very long tradition of endogamous marriages between siblings. Mostly half-siblings, occasionally twins or other full siblings.
Lagus married Arsinoe, a member of the ancient royal house of Temenid and former mistress of Alexander the Great's father Philip II.
Members of the house of Temenid were of Dorian ancient greek tribal descent, as were were their close relatives who founded the royal Argead dynasty that ruled ancient Macedonia from around 700-310BC.
A very informative and instructional respone you gave. So Cleopatra could possibly even been a niece to Alexander the Great. I know that she has even married her younger brother Ptolemaios, but this blood line to Alexander is completely new to me.
Original post by username001345
How? Macedonia is a state in Greece its like saying being Spartan and Greek are different
At Cleopatra's period - and before her lifetime - Macedonia was an own kingdom with the greatest extention in Alexander's era. An independent ancient state at that time, so it is a difference.
Original post by Wired_1800
She was Greek. Ancient Egyptians were black.
The person on the far right of this image is one self-portrayal of the ancient Egyptians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy#/media/File
gyptian_races.jpgThe more obviously black person is a Nubian. That is not to say there weren't Egyptians who weren't darker (or paler) than portrayed here.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- Shakespeare Question
- quotes for lit
- Antony and Cleopatra A level
- LIT coursework a level advice
- English lit Coursework
- A level lit coursework
- English lit coursework
- Edexcel English lit a level recourses
- English BFI exam
- English lit A Level 2022 predictions
- Neve gotten attention from guys
- Play the forum game that's playing 3 threads below this one
- english literature edexcel a level
- what oxford college?
- What are your favourite rock/metal bands?
- Unexpected predicted grades. Should I take a gap year
- Loughborough University LGBTQ+
- Postgraduate Msc for clinical psychology
- Kallisto's Sunday Question: Time Travel
- Make it More Mythical Creature-ey !!
Latest
Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
