Want to Study MA Law with 2.2 non-law degree…
Hello all,
Some background: I graduated from Uni of Nottingham in 2019 with a 2.2 in Economics and currently work as a Business Coach (mid-senior, covering transportation & logistics sector) for a NASDAQ top 10 tech company.
Reason for this post: I was looking to make a switch to law to become a solicitor…MA Law at University of Law > SQE1 > SQE2 > Training Contract. However, based on some online research, not only is this environment highly competitive but it appears that my 2.2 might be a blocker in fulfilling this career change.
Questions/seeking clarity (especially if you have been in a similar scenario):
1. Would my 5 years non-legal experience provide any advantage over say other candidates during training contract applications?
2. Would they take into account my MA Law grades and SQE results (say if I achieved a distinction in MA & high % in SQE exams)?
3. I plan to get some work experience in a legal setting prior to any training contract applications.
Appreciate any comments, suggestions and alternative view points.
Some background: I graduated from Uni of Nottingham in 2019 with a 2.2 in Economics and currently work as a Business Coach (mid-senior, covering transportation & logistics sector) for a NASDAQ top 10 tech company.
Reason for this post: I was looking to make a switch to law to become a solicitor…MA Law at University of Law > SQE1 > SQE2 > Training Contract. However, based on some online research, not only is this environment highly competitive but it appears that my 2.2 might be a blocker in fulfilling this career change.
Questions/seeking clarity (especially if you have been in a similar scenario):
1. Would my 5 years non-legal experience provide any advantage over say other candidates during training contract applications?
2. Would they take into account my MA Law grades and SQE results (say if I achieved a distinction in MA & high % in SQE exams)?
3. I plan to get some work experience in a legal setting prior to any training contract applications.
Appreciate any comments, suggestions and alternative view points.
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It is possible to get a training contract with a 2:2, but it will be an uphill struggle. You need to very carefully consider whether your want the career enough to put the work in, and spend the time and money on trying for it.
Re your questions:
1. In short, no. It’s a common trap to think non-law work experience of a few years might put you at some kind of an advantage, but it’s rarely the case, unless you’re an expert whose skills can be truly cross-sold, and/or you have genuine client contacts you can leverage. Three or four years in the average graduate recruitment scheme or corporate job? Law firms will not rank you ahead of other applicants for this (and certainly not ahead of candidates with 2:1s or 1sts).
2. Law firms will take postgraduate grades into account up to a point, but they still give most weight to undergraduate grades. An MA in Law overall makes no odds to them as a “+” on the CV; since you don’t need a Masters and MA study is far typically removed from the work of a trainee solicitor, most firms are not more impressed by someone spending another year studying above someone who got the 2:1 at undergrad. Also, don’t underestimate how difficult it is to get the top grades at any stage, especially having not smashed your academic performance at undergrad level.
3. Definitely get any work experience you can to see if the job is for you and get a feel for it, and try to talk to people who’ve recently qualified or who are training for some advice and guidance (there will always be someone in the office who qualified in 1997 with a 2:2 but that’s not a good indicator).
Re your questions:
1. In short, no. It’s a common trap to think non-law work experience of a few years might put you at some kind of an advantage, but it’s rarely the case, unless you’re an expert whose skills can be truly cross-sold, and/or you have genuine client contacts you can leverage. Three or four years in the average graduate recruitment scheme or corporate job? Law firms will not rank you ahead of other applicants for this (and certainly not ahead of candidates with 2:1s or 1sts).
2. Law firms will take postgraduate grades into account up to a point, but they still give most weight to undergraduate grades. An MA in Law overall makes no odds to them as a “+” on the CV; since you don’t need a Masters and MA study is far typically removed from the work of a trainee solicitor, most firms are not more impressed by someone spending another year studying above someone who got the 2:1 at undergrad. Also, don’t underestimate how difficult it is to get the top grades at any stage, especially having not smashed your academic performance at undergrad level.
3. Definitely get any work experience you can to see if the job is for you and get a feel for it, and try to talk to people who’ve recently qualified or who are training for some advice and guidance (there will always be someone in the office who qualified in 1997 with a 2:2 but that’s not a good indicator).
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by JoMarchBhaer
It is possible to get a training contract with a 2:2, but it will be an uphill struggle. You need to very carefully consider whether your want the career enough to put the work in, and spend the time and money on trying for it.
Re your questions:
1. In short, no. It’s a common trap to think non-law work experience of a few years might put you at some kind of an advantage, but it’s rarely the case, unless you’re an expert whose skills can be truly cross-sold, and/or you have genuine client contacts you can leverage. Three or four years in the average graduate recruitment scheme or corporate job? Law firms will not rank you ahead of other applicants for this (and certainly not ahead of candidates with 2:1s or 1sts).
2. Law firms will take postgraduate grades into account up to a point, but they still give most weight to undergraduate grades. An MA in Law overall makes no odds to them as a “+” on the CV; since you don’t need a Masters and MA study is far typically removed from the work of a trainee solicitor, most firms are not more impressed by someone spending another year studying above someone who got the 2:1 at undergrad. Also, don’t underestimate how difficult it is to get the top grades at any stage, especially having not smashed your academic performance at undergrad level.
3. Definitely get any work experience you can to see if the job is for you and get a feel for it, and try and try to talk to people who’ve recently qualified or who are training for some advice and guidance (there will always be someone in the office who qualified in 1997 with a 2:2 but that’s not a good indicator).
Re your questions:
1. In short, no. It’s a common trap to think non-law work experience of a few years might put you at some kind of an advantage, but it’s rarely the case, unless you’re an expert whose skills can be truly cross-sold, and/or you have genuine client contacts you can leverage. Three or four years in the average graduate recruitment scheme or corporate job? Law firms will not rank you ahead of other applicants for this (and certainly not ahead of candidates with 2:1s or 1sts).
2. Law firms will take postgraduate grades into account up to a point, but they still give most weight to undergraduate grades. An MA in Law overall makes no odds to them as a “+” on the CV; since you don’t need a Masters and MA study is far typically removed from the work of a trainee solicitor, most firms are not more impressed by someone spending another year studying above someone who got the 2:1 at undergrad. Also, don’t underestimate how difficult it is to get the top grades at any stage, especially having not smashed your academic performance at undergrad level.
3. Definitely get any work experience you can to see if the job is for you and get a feel for it, and try and try to talk to people who’ve recently qualified or who are training for some advice and guidance (there will always be someone in the office who qualified in 1997 with a 2:2 but that’s not a good indicator).
Thanks Jo, appreciate the comments.
It’s a corporate role, one I absolutely hate despite decent pay and brand name, corporate world isn’t for me, the culture within is too fake and shallow in my opinion (not to offend anyone reading this)…one of many reasons why I’m planning to quit soon.
I was thinking perhaps a MA would help mask my mediocre 2.2 but guess not. In case you’re wondering how I ended up with 2.2, I just didn’t apply myself, I studied more at school/college than uni, a huge regret.
I’m not academic at all if I’m honest but tend to do well if I have a genuine interest in a subject matter…natural curiosity takes over. Law came to existence through reading non-fiction, docs and some life experiences (legal disputes).
I had no plans to target the big dogs for TC as no interest in corporate firms, hence thought 2.2 might be okay for small boutique/retail firms (focus on real estate & SME tax matters) but this route appears somewhat limited.
Found the SRA guidelines on QWE vague, are you aware of anyone that has progressed as a solicitor without a formal route I.e. contract with a major law firm? I was thinking of joining a high street firm for two years but not sure if that would count as QWE.
Hi OP,
I'd think pretty carefully about what you want to do next (as I'm sure you are). Echo pretty much what Jo's said above on the difficulties of applying with a 2.2 and the previous career experience unfortunately isn't that useful - it's slightly helpful, but just slightly.
A couple of point I wanted to pick up from your last post:
1) - What is it that you specifically dislike about your current role? If you enjoy the underlying work and skills would a move within your industry to a smaller or different outfit with a culture more aligned to you be a better fit? Are there other industries with a more direct link where your career to date would be much more of an advantage?
2) - If you're not academic do you think you'd enjoy the day to day work of being a lawyer? Obviously law is a broad church with many specialisms but generally it's one of the more academic careers out there - quite a lot of solitary work researching, reviewing, drafting contracts, form filling and admin etc... - not something that everyone enjoys!
I'd think pretty carefully about what you want to do next (as I'm sure you are). Echo pretty much what Jo's said above on the difficulties of applying with a 2.2 and the previous career experience unfortunately isn't that useful - it's slightly helpful, but just slightly.
A couple of point I wanted to pick up from your last post:
1) - What is it that you specifically dislike about your current role? If you enjoy the underlying work and skills would a move within your industry to a smaller or different outfit with a culture more aligned to you be a better fit? Are there other industries with a more direct link where your career to date would be much more of an advantage?
2) - If you're not academic do you think you'd enjoy the day to day work of being a lawyer? Obviously law is a broad church with many specialisms but generally it's one of the more academic careers out there - quite a lot of solitary work researching, reviewing, drafting contracts, form filling and admin etc... - not something that everyone enjoys!
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by msa_566
Thanks Jo, appreciate the comments.
It’s a corporate role, one I absolutely hate despite decent pay and brand name, corporate world isn’t for me, the culture within is too fake and shallow in my opinion (not to offend anyone reading this)…one of many reasons why I’m planning to quit soon.
I was thinking perhaps a MA would help mask my mediocre 2.2 but guess not. In case you’re wondering how I ended up with 2.2, I just didn’t apply myself, I studied more at school/college than uni, a huge regret.
I’m not academic at all if I’m honest but tend to do well if I have a genuine interest in a subject matter…natural curiosity takes over. Law came to existence through reading non-fiction, docs and some life experiences (legal disputes).
I had no plans to target the big dogs for TC as no interest in corporate firms, hence thought 2.2 might be okay for small boutique/retail firms (focus on real estate & SME tax matters) but this route appears somewhat limited.
Found the SRA guidelines on QWE vague, are you aware of anyone that has progressed as a solicitor without a formal route I.e. contract with a major law firm? I was thinking of joining a high street firm for two years but not sure if that would count as QWE.
It’s a corporate role, one I absolutely hate despite decent pay and brand name, corporate world isn’t for me, the culture within is too fake and shallow in my opinion (not to offend anyone reading this)…one of many reasons why I’m planning to quit soon.
I was thinking perhaps a MA would help mask my mediocre 2.2 but guess not. In case you’re wondering how I ended up with 2.2, I just didn’t apply myself, I studied more at school/college than uni, a huge regret.
I’m not academic at all if I’m honest but tend to do well if I have a genuine interest in a subject matter…natural curiosity takes over. Law came to existence through reading non-fiction, docs and some life experiences (legal disputes).
I had no plans to target the big dogs for TC as no interest in corporate firms, hence thought 2.2 might be okay for small boutique/retail firms (focus on real estate & SME tax matters) but this route appears somewhat limited.
Found the SRA guidelines on QWE vague, are you aware of anyone that has progressed as a solicitor without a formal route I.e. contract with a major law firm? I was thinking of joining a high street firm for two years but not sure if that would count as QWE.
I personally don’t like the way the profession has gone re academics but that’s how it is unfortunately. You’d need to really smash it out of the park in your postgrad in a way that catches attention, and not simply be average, and this would require a big effort — and/or have some very interesting work experience, to get a look-in at most firms, including the boutique and smaller firms of note. There’s no harm applying for a training contract starting in a couple of years and seeing if you get anywhere, or in getting some work experience, but I wouldn’t start putting money and effort into any postgrad qualifications until you have more of an idea how you compare to peers and whether the job is really for you.
On your last question, I’ve seen people qualify through CILEX back in the day at fairly decent firms and a couple made partner, but they worked incredibly hard. The newer qualifying experience equivalent isn’t something I know well so I hope someone who knows it better could assist but the consensus among the bigger firms that I’ve seen is that they would still want people to have completed a formal training contract, might have more luck at those firms that have been happy to accept CILEX though.
Original post by AMac86
Hi OP,
I'd think pretty carefully about what you want to do next (as I'm sure you are). Echo pretty much what Jo's said above on the difficulties of applying with a 2.2 and the previous career experience unfortunately isn't that useful - it's slightly helpful, but just slightly.
A couple of point I wanted to pick up from your last post:
1) - What is it that you specifically dislike about your current role? If you enjoy the underlying work and skills would a move within your industry to a smaller or different outfit with a culture more aligned to you be a better fit? Are there other industries with a more direct link where your career to date would be much more of an advantage?
2) - If you're not academic do you think you'd enjoy the day to day work of being a lawyer? Obviously law is a broach church with many specialisms but generally it's one of the more academic careers out there - quite a lot of solitary work researching, reviewing, drafting contracts, form filling and admin etc... - not something that everyone enjoys!
I'd think pretty carefully about what you want to do next (as I'm sure you are). Echo pretty much what Jo's said above on the difficulties of applying with a 2.2 and the previous career experience unfortunately isn't that useful - it's slightly helpful, but just slightly.
A couple of point I wanted to pick up from your last post:
1) - What is it that you specifically dislike about your current role? If you enjoy the underlying work and skills would a move within your industry to a smaller or different outfit with a culture more aligned to you be a better fit? Are there other industries with a more direct link where your career to date would be much more of an advantage?
2) - If you're not academic do you think you'd enjoy the day to day work of being a lawyer? Obviously law is a broach church with many specialisms but generally it's one of the more academic careers out there - quite a lot of solitary work researching, reviewing, drafting contracts, form filling and admin etc... - not something that everyone enjoys!
This is excellent practical advice. I wouldn’t advise anyone who is progressing well in another career to go back and try to be a solicitor, UNLESS they’re absolutely set on it and nothing else will do having acquired:
1. A full understanding how competitive it is, having done all the research; and
2. Work experience and/or shadowing or mentoring so as to have seen the job up close.
The job at any level is hard work and truly, for what’s involved, it doesn’t really pay that much versus the hassle and stress, unless you are at the very top end of the market. It’s not something you go into lightly and you can’t succeed in this career with just a passing interest.
And yes, law is an academic, attention-to-detail focused discipline. It’s a lot of trawling through documents, it’s a lot of slightly boring admin, it’s a lot of rule-checking, spotting something slightly not as it should be in the wording that someone else hasn’t picked up yet… and that’s how you get your kicks, typically. That’s the job day-to-day. Sure, you can get accomplishment from getting the right result for your client but that’s after days and weeks and months of that type of work, usually. It’s worth pausing for thought if you want to restart your career if making double-sure that, for example, a Schedule lists all the documents that are to be delivered on Completion correctly, doesn’t exactly float your boat.
(edited 9 months ago)
Thanks both for your inputs!
You shared some interesting points I may have overlooked, and you’re right it could be a passing interest and fuelled by my dissatisfaction at current role/company.
To answer AMAC points:
1. It’s the type of work I do and the company culture. As cliche as it may sound, I’m looking for something bit more meaningful, something that gives me a reason to get up and work hard, a purpose. I didn’t pay much attention to this aspect when choosing a uni course, rather went for something broad and thought would help me ‘earn big bucks’, and eventually ended up accepting the first job offer I received. I haven’t given much thought to other sectors but will explore in more detail.
2. I understand the general public consensus that solicitor work can be boring and tedious, but my spark kind of came from these similar boring stuff, something I’ve enjoyed the most in my professional/personal life to date. E.g. drafting business contracts with support of internal corporate counsels (lawyers), finding defects in clauses in existing policies and correcting to align with regulations, using T&Cs to hold business partners accountable through legally approved letters, which I drafted. In personal capacity, reading housing laws, challenging private PCNs (reviewing previous case examples, finding the right law that applies, writing defence statements and winning), holding landlord accountable under specific clause from tenancy agreement…these small things that kind of sparked my interest.
Jo, not familiar with CILEX, there seems to be little mention of this when I did my initial research into solicitor routes but I will check it out.
To add, my main objective is to find something I truly love and can see myself doing for years (although I’m aware at times it won’t always be rainbows no matter what profession). Law, medicine, dentistry is what stood out to me initially but I have no experience of medicine/dentistry and do not meet the requirement for either so ruled both out. Essentially, something that allows me to engage with people, solve genuine practical problem’s by being my true self.
You shared some interesting points I may have overlooked, and you’re right it could be a passing interest and fuelled by my dissatisfaction at current role/company.
To answer AMAC points:
1. It’s the type of work I do and the company culture. As cliche as it may sound, I’m looking for something bit more meaningful, something that gives me a reason to get up and work hard, a purpose. I didn’t pay much attention to this aspect when choosing a uni course, rather went for something broad and thought would help me ‘earn big bucks’, and eventually ended up accepting the first job offer I received. I haven’t given much thought to other sectors but will explore in more detail.
2. I understand the general public consensus that solicitor work can be boring and tedious, but my spark kind of came from these similar boring stuff, something I’ve enjoyed the most in my professional/personal life to date. E.g. drafting business contracts with support of internal corporate counsels (lawyers), finding defects in clauses in existing policies and correcting to align with regulations, using T&Cs to hold business partners accountable through legally approved letters, which I drafted. In personal capacity, reading housing laws, challenging private PCNs (reviewing previous case examples, finding the right law that applies, writing defence statements and winning), holding landlord accountable under specific clause from tenancy agreement…these small things that kind of sparked my interest.
Jo, not familiar with CILEX, there seems to be little mention of this when I did my initial research into solicitor routes but I will check it out.
To add, my main objective is to find something I truly love and can see myself doing for years (although I’m aware at times it won’t always be rainbows no matter what profession). Law, medicine, dentistry is what stood out to me initially but I have no experience of medicine/dentistry and do not meet the requirement for either so ruled both out. Essentially, something that allows me to engage with people, solve genuine practical problem’s by being my true self.
Thanks MSA, I genuinely think you're just going through a bit of rut in your current role (which is surprisingly common in your mid-late 20s) once you've bedded down into a somewhat comfortable role you think "is this it for the next 40 years?" and for the first time in our lives there's no obvious answer as up to that point life' s consisted of a well trodden path of work hard at college, work hard at uni, get a well paying corporate job, etc...
When I read your post, particularly:
"It’s the type of work I do and the company culture. As cliche as it may sound, I’m looking for something bit more meaningful, something that gives me a reason to get up and work hard, a purpose. I didn’t pay much attention to this aspect when choosing a uni course, rather went for something broad and thought would help me ‘earn big bucks’"
That's such a common complaint that many solicitors have about their career, including how to break out of law into a "more meaningful" commercial career! The interactions you've had with legal work to date feel meaningful because (in a professional sense) they're new and a bit different or for your more personal interactions they directly affect your life (*everyone* gets wound up about parking tickets etc..). When legal work is the day job, that meaningfulness can feel pretty remote, and lots of legal work involves handling things and arguing points that your clients arn't particularly interested in. Particularly as a junior lawyer the reality of the day job is preparing schedules of documents, circulating documents for signing, arguing with opposing counsel over the same legal point you've negotiated many times before that the client isn't interested in, on a document they will never read, reviewing pages and pages of due diligence information simply to confirm no red flags, often for clients that are very uninterested in what you have to say and just want the transaction sorted or the dispute resolved.
Don't get me wrong, I think being a solicitor can be a great career, I'm c12 years qualified, work in a senior legal role I hugely enjoy and don't see that changing anytime soon. I went through a very similar crisis of faith earlier in my career as a corporate lawyer - I didn't enjoy it, didn't find it meaningful, was it for me? The big change I made was to move from private practice to working as a lawyer in an industry that I cared about (Renewable Energy) and that change has made my work feel very meaningful.
So, what's my advice? It *might* be that a total career change is the right decision for you, but law isn't a golden ticket to a meaningful career, in that sense it's just like any other job, some people find it meaningful, most don't - and there's plenty of boring stuff along the way. It's a big expensive gamble to retain and you will struggle greatly with a 2.2 to find a training contract. I'd recommend looking at what you can do with all, or some, of your current skills to move into a industry sector that you care about. I don't know exactly what a business coach does, but it sounds like the sort of useful generalist commercial/ops role that's applicable to lots of companies, in lots of industries, with various transferable skills (ditto an economics degree indicates you have some solid commercial financial and market understanding behind you) If you're working in an sector that you care about, I think you'll find more of the meaningfulness you want, and be able to advantage of the skills you've gained already in your career.
When I read your post, particularly:
"It’s the type of work I do and the company culture. As cliche as it may sound, I’m looking for something bit more meaningful, something that gives me a reason to get up and work hard, a purpose. I didn’t pay much attention to this aspect when choosing a uni course, rather went for something broad and thought would help me ‘earn big bucks’"
That's such a common complaint that many solicitors have about their career, including how to break out of law into a "more meaningful" commercial career! The interactions you've had with legal work to date feel meaningful because (in a professional sense) they're new and a bit different or for your more personal interactions they directly affect your life (*everyone* gets wound up about parking tickets etc..). When legal work is the day job, that meaningfulness can feel pretty remote, and lots of legal work involves handling things and arguing points that your clients arn't particularly interested in. Particularly as a junior lawyer the reality of the day job is preparing schedules of documents, circulating documents for signing, arguing with opposing counsel over the same legal point you've negotiated many times before that the client isn't interested in, on a document they will never read, reviewing pages and pages of due diligence information simply to confirm no red flags, often for clients that are very uninterested in what you have to say and just want the transaction sorted or the dispute resolved.
Don't get me wrong, I think being a solicitor can be a great career, I'm c12 years qualified, work in a senior legal role I hugely enjoy and don't see that changing anytime soon. I went through a very similar crisis of faith earlier in my career as a corporate lawyer - I didn't enjoy it, didn't find it meaningful, was it for me? The big change I made was to move from private practice to working as a lawyer in an industry that I cared about (Renewable Energy) and that change has made my work feel very meaningful.
So, what's my advice? It *might* be that a total career change is the right decision for you, but law isn't a golden ticket to a meaningful career, in that sense it's just like any other job, some people find it meaningful, most don't - and there's plenty of boring stuff along the way. It's a big expensive gamble to retain and you will struggle greatly with a 2.2 to find a training contract. I'd recommend looking at what you can do with all, or some, of your current skills to move into a industry sector that you care about. I don't know exactly what a business coach does, but it sounds like the sort of useful generalist commercial/ops role that's applicable to lots of companies, in lots of industries, with various transferable skills (ditto an economics degree indicates you have some solid commercial financial and market understanding behind you) If you're working in an sector that you care about, I think you'll find more of the meaningfulness you want, and be able to advantage of the skills you've gained already in your career.
(edited 9 months ago)
First of all - economics is a very hard degree and it is in my opinion unfair that a law firm will see a 2.2 and automatically reject you. Economics is much harder than law and I think a 2.2 at notts is equivalent to a 2.1 or a first in many other subjects.
I think there are two unconventional options for you.
1.) Look to do a graduate entry LLB law programme. This is a 2 year law degree and can be done at many top universities (Leeds, Birmingham, Southampton etc). I think these places will ask for a 2.1 but you could definitely argue that you went to a top university and did a difficult degree and have some work experience. The degree is graded as normal and so you could get a 2.1 or a first if you work hard which would in effect be the degree result that firms would look at. It is around £9,250 per year so its a more expensive option, but definitely one to consider if you can afford it.
2.) Do it your way and focus on getting an in-house paralegal role at a company and get signed off after 2 years (if you do SQE). In-house roles can be very good experience because you actually take on a caseload yourself and give legal advice. A lot of in-house places will offer you a TC without looking at your grades if you perform well. In-house is a growing area and I believe most companies will go this way because it saves them a lot of money by not sending out work externally.
I think there are two unconventional options for you.
1.) Look to do a graduate entry LLB law programme. This is a 2 year law degree and can be done at many top universities (Leeds, Birmingham, Southampton etc). I think these places will ask for a 2.1 but you could definitely argue that you went to a top university and did a difficult degree and have some work experience. The degree is graded as normal and so you could get a 2.1 or a first if you work hard which would in effect be the degree result that firms would look at. It is around £9,250 per year so its a more expensive option, but definitely one to consider if you can afford it.
2.) Do it your way and focus on getting an in-house paralegal role at a company and get signed off after 2 years (if you do SQE). In-house roles can be very good experience because you actually take on a caseload yourself and give legal advice. A lot of in-house places will offer you a TC without looking at your grades if you perform well. In-house is a growing area and I believe most companies will go this way because it saves them a lot of money by not sending out work externally.
Original post by M-P-JxX
First of all - economics is a very hard degree and it is in my opinion unfair that a law firm will see a 2.2 and automatically reject you. Economics is much harder than law and I think a 2.2 at notts is equivalent to a 2.1 or a first in many other subjects.
I think there are two unconventional options for you.
1.) Look to do a graduate entry LLB law programme. This is a 2 year law degree and can be done at many top universities (Leeds, Birmingham, Southampton etc). I think these places will ask for a 2.1 but you could definitely argue that you went to a top university and did a difficult degree and have some work experience. The degree is graded as normal and so you could get a 2.1 or a first if you work hard which would in effect be the degree result that firms would look at. It is around £9,250 per year so its a more expensive option, but definitely one to consider if you can afford it.
2.) Do it your way and focus on getting an in-house paralegal role at a company and get signed off after 2 years (if you do SQE). In-house roles can be very good experience because you actually take on a caseload yourself and give legal advice. A lot of in-house places will offer you a TC without looking at your grades if you perform well. In-house is a growing area and I believe most companies will go this way because it saves them a lot of money by not sending out work externally.
I think there are two unconventional options for you.
1.) Look to do a graduate entry LLB law programme. This is a 2 year law degree and can be done at many top universities (Leeds, Birmingham, Southampton etc). I think these places will ask for a 2.1 but you could definitely argue that you went to a top university and did a difficult degree and have some work experience. The degree is graded as normal and so you could get a 2.1 or a first if you work hard which would in effect be the degree result that firms would look at. It is around £9,250 per year so its a more expensive option, but definitely one to consider if you can afford it.
2.) Do it your way and focus on getting an in-house paralegal role at a company and get signed off after 2 years (if you do SQE). In-house roles can be very good experience because you actually take on a caseload yourself and give legal advice. A lot of in-house places will offer you a TC without looking at your grades if you perform well. In-house is a growing area and I believe most companies will go this way because it saves them a lot of money by not sending out work externally.
Er… what? I am not sure if you are working off personal bias? — but no reasonable employer is going to follow your logic that Economics, or any other course at Nottingham, was tougher than a Law degree at any other reputable university. Not going to happen, I would say. Are you saying Economics at Nottingham is harder than Law at Oxford, Cambridge, or: pick a Russell Group university. Uhhhhh: let me wait. Nope, it is not.
A 2:2 at Notts being the equivalent of a First somewhere else (???) is probably one of the funniest things I’ve read this week (no, it is not).
A 2:2 at Notts (in Law, Economics or really, whatever) is a 2:2 at Notts. Bang average. It is what it is. Not the end of the world but just by any standards and any sane comparison, a very, hugely deeply average performance (it was ten or twenty years ago and it still is now). Don’t mislead people.
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by JoMarchBhaer
Er… what? I am not sure if you are working off personal bias? — but no reasonable employer is going to follow your logic that Economics, or any other course at Nottingham, was tougher than a Law degree at any other reputable university. Not going to happen, I would say.
A 2:2 at Notts (in Law, Economics or really, whatever) is a 2:2 at Notts. It is what it is. Not the end of the world but just by any standards, a very deeply average performance (it was ten or twenty years ago and it still is now). Don’t mislead people.
A 2:2 at Notts (in Law, Economics or really, whatever) is a 2:2 at Notts. It is what it is. Not the end of the world but just by any standards, a very deeply average performance (it was ten or twenty years ago and it still is now). Don’t mislead people.
Am i misleading people or am I saying in my opinion economics is harder and that I personally think its unfair?? Maybe read my comment properly before replying
Original post by M-P-JxX
Am i misleading people or am I saying in my opinion economics is harder and that I personally think its unfair?? Maybe read my comment properly before replying
I read your comment again (how many times do I need to read it?), and may I say: it is still entirely unhelpful and misleading. The fact you think Economics is a harder degree at Nottingham than Law is frankly staggering.
A 2:2 Nottingham graduate performed averagely, and no employer in this country or any other will think Economics at Notts is more impressive than Law at Notts (or Oxford or Cambridge).
A 2:2 grade is forever average and must always be mitigated. Any other advice is poor.
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by JoMarchBhaer
I read your comment again (how many times do I need to read it?), and may I say: it is still entirely unhelpful and misleading. The fact you think Economics is a harder degree at Nottingham than Law is frankly staggering.
A 2:2 Nottingham graduate performed averagely.
A 2:2 Nottingham graduate performed averagely.
You seemed to have edited you comment since I replied.
My first paragraph was me sympathising with the OP because IN MY OPINION economics is harder than most degrees (including law). If the OP had done another degree (in law, politics, history etc) and got a 2.1 (which is statistically more likely than in an economics degrees) he would not be in this situation.
IN MY OPINION, a 2.2 in economics at Notts is the same as getting a 2.1 in say Politics at Notts - obviously employers don't see it that way which is why I sympathise with OP.
Yes, a 2.2 is generally an average mark but I don't want the OP thinking that they are not academic because it is very likely that they could be good in another subject (such as law) given the difficulty of economics/
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by M-P-JxX
You seemed to have edited you comment since I replied.
My first paragraph was me sympathising with the OP because IN MY OPINION economics is harder than most degrees (including law). If the OP had done another degree (in law, politics, history etc) and got a 2.1 (which is statistically more likely than in an economics degrees) he would not be in this situation.
IN MY OPINION, a 2.2 at economics at Notts is the same as getting a 2.1 in say Politics at Notts - obviously employers don't see it that way which is why I sympathise with OP.
Yes, a 2.2 is generally an average mark but I don't want the OP thinking that they are not academic because it is very likely that they could be good in another subject (such as law).
My first paragraph was me sympathising with the OP because IN MY OPINION economics is harder than most degrees (including law). If the OP had done another degree (in law, politics, history etc) and got a 2.1 (which is statistically more likely than in an economics degrees) he would not be in this situation.
IN MY OPINION, a 2.2 at economics at Notts is the same as getting a 2.1 in say Politics at Notts - obviously employers don't see it that way which is why I sympathise with OP.
Yes, a 2.2 is generally an average mark but I don't want the OP thinking that they are not academic because it is very likely that they could be good in another subject (such as law).
Good grief. You must be an economics graduate. Maybe from Notts. Yep, I edited my comment. And still:
I have NO IDEA what planet you live on if you think an Economics degree ranks above a Law one. I honestly don’t know. I can only think you got a poor Economics grade so you’re pushing that agenda. There is no way a 2:2 in Economics from Notts beats a 2:1 from
Notts in any other subject whatsoever.
Economics isn’t more impressive than Law as a degree and a 2:2 is a 2:2. Being from Nottingham isn’t a flex. If you tell someone otherwise, you aren’t helping them.
That’s my opinion, I’m happy to have it debunked, but that’s the way of the world. There is nothing whatsoever impressive about getting a lower second in any subject from Nottingham. It means “you showed up.” For any meaningful career path after that very average turnout, you will need to perform at a high level.
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by JoMarchBhaer
I read your comment again (how many times do I need to read it?), and may I say: it is still entirely unhelpful and misleading. The fact you think Economics is a harder degree at Nottingham than Law is frankly staggering.
A 2:2 Nottingham graduate performed averagely, and no employer in this country or any other will think Economics at Notts is more impressive than Law at Notts (or Oxford or Cambridge).
A 2:2 grade is forever average and must always be mitigated. Any other advice is poor.
A 2:2 Nottingham graduate performed averagely, and no employer in this country or any other will think Economics at Notts is more impressive than Law at Notts (or Oxford or Cambridge).
A 2:2 grade is forever average and must always be mitigated. Any other advice is poor.
Original post by JoMarchBhaer
Good grief. You must be an economics graduate. Maybe from Notts. Yep, I edited my comment. And still:
Economics isn’t more impressive than Law as a degree and a 2:2 is a 2:2. Being from Nottingham isn’t a flex. If you tell someone otherwise, you aren’t helping them.
That’s my opinion, I’m happy to have it debunked, but that’s the way of the world. There is nothing whatsoever impressive about getting a lower second in any subject from Nottingham. It means “you showed up.” For any meaningful career path after that very average turnout, you will need to perform at a high level.
Economics isn’t more impressive than Law as a degree and a 2:2 is a 2:2. Being from Nottingham isn’t a flex. If you tell someone otherwise, you aren’t helping them.
That’s my opinion, I’m happy to have it debunked, but that’s the way of the world. There is nothing whatsoever impressive about getting a lower second in any subject from Nottingham. It means “you showed up.” For any meaningful career path after that very average turnout, you will need to perform at a high level.
No I did law at University of Leeds - I have seen people (including very good friends of mine) drop out of economics in their degree because the maths (apparently econometrics) is too much and switch into law and do very well. There are some comments above hinting that the OP should not consider studying law because they didn't do well in economics - but this is just bad advice. If the OP did'nt do well in economics, it does not mean they will do bad in law.
I think you are missing the point of my first paragraph in my original post - it is not to mislead the OP into thinking employers won't care about his 2.2, its to tell the OP that they should not give up on studying law because they were not good in economics (and I gave a solution on how to mask his 2.2).
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by M-P-JxX
No I did law at University of Leeds - I have seen people (including very good friends of mine) drop out of economics in their degree because the maths (apparently econometrics) is too much and switch into law and do very well. There are some comments above hinting that the OP should not consider law because they didn't do well in economics - but this is just bad advice. If the OP did'nt do well in economics, it does not mean they will do bad in law.
I think you are missing the point of my first paragraph in my original post - it is not to mislead the OP into thinking employers won't care about his 2.2, its to tell the OP that they should not give up on studying law because they were not good in economics (and I gave a solution on how to mask his 2.2).
Y
I think you are missing the point of my first paragraph in my original post - it is not to mislead the OP into thinking employers won't care about his 2.2, its to tell the OP that they should not give up on studying law because they were not good in economics (and I gave a solution on how to mask his 2.2).
Y
I am not missing the point of anything, and I will leave this discussion here — but you seem to think a 2:2 in Economics from Notts a few years ago ranks above some other degrees.
To the OP: no. It does not. You will need to compensate for your average academic performance and no-one will be impressed by it.
I am totally lost why this turned into any other conversation otherwise. To other readers: a 2:2 from a quite good university (in any subject) is the (at very best) average performance you always thought it was.
Original post by JoMarchBhaer
I am not missing the point of anything, and I will leave this discussion here — but you seem to think a 2:2 in Economics from Notts a few years ago ranks above some other degrees.
To the OP: no. It does not. You will need to compensate for your average academic performance and no-one will be impressed by it.
I am totally lost why this turned into any other conversation otherwise. To other readers: a 2:2 from a quite good university (in any subject) is the (at very best) average performance you always thought it was.
To the OP: no. It does not. You will need to compensate for your average academic performance and no-one will be impressed by it.
I am totally lost why this turned into any other conversation otherwise. To other readers: a 2:2 from a quite good university (in any subject) is the (at very best) average performance you always thought it was.
You are definitely missing the point - let me see if you understand it in another way
a 2.2 is a 2.2
a 2.1 is a 2.1
An economics degree is not better than a law degree
I hope the OP understands this and understands that he will have a massive uphill struggle to a get a TC.
HOWEVER, on a personal level, I feel for the OP because in my experience and from what I have seen, economics is a bloody hard degree
I clearly triggered you by saying in my opinion that economics as a discipline is harder than law - maybe you need to water down your ego
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by M-P-JxX
You are definitely missing the point - let me see if you understand it in another way
a 2.2 is a 2.2
a 2.1 is a 2.1
An economics degree is not better than a law degree
I hope the OP understands this and understands that he will have a massive uphill struggle to a get a TC.
HOWEVER, on a personal level, I feel for the OP because in my experience and from what I have seen, economics is a bloody hard degree
I clearly triggered you by saying in my opinion that economics as a discipline is harder than law - maybe you need to water down your ego
a 2.2 is a 2.2
a 2.1 is a 2.1
An economics degree is not better than a law degree
I hope the OP understands this and understands that he will have a massive uphill struggle to a get a TC.
HOWEVER, on a personal level, I feel for the OP because in my experience and from what I have seen, economics is a bloody hard degree
I clearly triggered you by saying in my opinion that economics as a discipline is harder than law - maybe you need to water down your ego
Are you okay? No, you didn’t trigger me, haha. It seems like you triggered yourself to be honest. I am baffled why this thread clearly set you right off.
Let’s start again.
Economics isn’t, never will be, can’t ever be, harder than Law. Keep challenging that if you want at the back end but eh, it’s the truth.
There is nothing, nada, nil, impressive about a 2:2 in Economics from Nottingham. It wasn’t impressive when I graduated twenty years ago and hey, it still ain’t impressive now.
Never has been, never will be.
If the OP wants to be a lawyer, they will need to work around that. It ain’t a selling point.
Night night!
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by JoMarchBhaer
Are you okay? No, you didn’t trigger me, haha. It seems like you triggered yourself to be honest. I am baffled why this thread clearly set you right off.
Let’s start again.
There is nothing, nada, nil, impressive about a 2:2 in Economics from Nottingham.
Never has been, never will be.
If the OP wants to be a lawyer, they will need to worn around that. It ain’t a selling point.
Night night!
Let’s start again.
There is nothing, nada, nil, impressive about a 2:2 in Economics from Nottingham.
Never has been, never will be.
If the OP wants to be a lawyer, they will need to worn around that. It ain’t a selling point.
Night night!
Don't worry bro - I got you! - I hope you have a good sleep and I am sorry if I destroyed your ego.
@OP If you want to study law, do not think your 2.2 in economics is any indication that you can't study law - economics is hard, in my opinion harder than law (i.e. if a lawyer wanted to change careers and do economics and go into finance, they would certainly need to go back and do maths a level and get an A or an A* to have any chance of getting a 2.1 in economics - as us lawyers know that we hate maths!). You will find it tough getting a TC but it is by no means impossible!
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by M-P-JxX
Don't worry bro - I got you! - I hope you have a good sleep and I am sorry if I destroyed your ego.
@OP If you want to study law, do not think your 2.2 in economics is any indication that you can't study law - economics is hard, in my opinion harder than law (i.e. if a lawyer wanted to change careers and do economics and go into finance, they would certainly need to go back and do maths a level and get an A or an A* to have any chance of getting a 2.1 in economics - as us lawyers know that we hate maths!). You will find it tough getting a TC but it is by no means impossible!
@OP If you want to study law, do not think your 2.2 in economics is any indication that you can't study law - economics is hard, in my opinion harder than law (i.e. if a lawyer wanted to change careers and do economics and go into finance, they would certainly need to go back and do maths a level and get an A or an A* to have any chance of getting a 2.1 in economics - as us lawyers know that we hate maths!). You will find it tough getting a TC but it is by no means impossible!
I’m a woman actually (isn’t my name a clue?). My ego is moderately secure...
Your advice is Ok, I agree the OP doesn’t need to give up. However, they have a very, very average profile to make the leap to be a solicitor.
I mentor students and career changers every day of the week and anyone can message me for that purpose. Let me know.
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