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Five SAS soldiers arrested for alleged war crimes in Syria

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/05/five-sas-soldiers-arrested-in-uk-on-suspicion-of-alleged-war-crimes-in-syria?CMP=twt_b-gdnnews

5 men have been arrested by British miliaitry police in relation to accusations of war crimes in Syria, the accusations relates to the death of a suspected Jihidaist two years ago with case files sent to the miliairy equivalent to the CPS

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Hopefully there will be a detailed and professional investigation of all these allegations that will soon establish whether there is a reasonable evidentiary basis to support claims of SAS member involvement in illegality overseas & the credibility of those making such allegations.
Forensic evidence, witness statements, recorded footage and the recollections of events provided by the soldiers or their representatives.

With effective legal support provided to all the soldiers involved so that their personal reputations and military careers cannot be ruined by allegations of criminality that are based on mistaken identities or factually inaccurate information made by individuals with malicious intentions.
Reply 2
War and military actions are never clear cut nor are they easy to defend. They are messy, dirty, uncontrolled and brutal. But one thing is for sure - It is the easiest thing in the world is to make allegations against armed forces personnel from the relaxed comfort and perspective of an armchair - with all the time in the world to make decisions. Those easy timescales are not afforded in conflict where often decisions have to be made in a split second. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I wonder why there is a recruiting problem in the British army?
Reply 3
Original post by Muttly
War and military actions are never clear cut nor are they easy to defend. They are messy, dirty, uncontrolled and brutal. But one thing is for sure - It is the easiest thing in the world is to make allegations against armed forces personnel from the relaxed comfort and perspective of an armchair - with all the time in the world to make decisions. Those easy timescales are not afforded in conflict where often decisions have to be made in a split second. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I wonder why there is a recruiting problem in the British army?
Muttly I'm not sure your too familiar with how these processes work. Prosecutions for war crimes, particularly murder are incredibly rare and the brutality and split second decision making is absolutely factored into how these decisions are reached, which is why prosecutions are so rare.

Allegations aren't made by people sitting in an armchair - they'll be brought on investigation and advice of military police who are trained serving soldiers often deployed on operations. Soldiers aren't prosecuted for making reasonable split second decisions. If you look at the last 20 years of war crimes prosecutions in Britain they almost entirely involve deliberate pre-meditated acts of murder or torture against already captured POWs.

Rules of engagement and not murdering or torturing securely captured POWs is what gives our armed forces the moral authority to be the good guys.
If you have broken the law then you should answer to the law. End of. Literaly NO exceptions.

Anyone want to argue with me?
Original post by 2WheelGod
If you have broken the law then you should answer to the law. End of. Literaly NO exceptions.
Anyone want to argue with me?
I'd argue the starving man who steals a loaf of bread to feed his family might get some leeway. A 70 year old man who parks on double yellows to drop off his 90 year old father at the hospital might too. Not everything is black and white. That's why investigations are important.
Reply 6
Original post by 2WheelGod
If you have broken the law then you should answer to the law. End of. Literaly NO exceptions.
Anyone want to argue with me?
Whose laws? You seem rather extreme and polarised?

No I don't agree with you.

On the basis some laws in some countries are extreme, lack any kind of compassion and are brutal to all mankind (and animals)

If laws are implemented with the consent of the majority of the people (not coerced by fear and oppression) approved with checks and balances, reviewed with oversight and implemented with fairness and common sense - then there maybe some room for debate here.

Sadly the UK lately has plenty of ill thought legislation brought in by pressure groups or as knee jerk reactions to events that could easily have been foreseen. Worse, this legislation is then enforced with a complete lack of foresight and common sense. It's no doubt cheaper to sell a lie (to be seen to be doing something) and invent even more new legislation than it is to properly enforce the legislation we already have?
Original post by Guru Jason
I'd argue the starving man who steals a loaf of bread to feed his family might get some leeway. A 70 year old man who parks on double yellows to drop off his 90 year old father at the hospital might too. Not everything is black and white. That's why investigations are important.
So you believe that breaking the law is acceptable if the culprit can come up with a decent excuse?
What about the addict who steals a church collection tray to service their addiction? No victim and the culprit was in dire need.
Original post by Muttly
Whose laws? You seem rather extreme and polarised?
No I don't agree with you.
On the basis some laws in some countries are extreme, lack any kind of compassion and are brutal to all mankind (and animals)
If laws are implemented with the consent of the majority of the people (not coerced by fear and oppression) approved with checks and balances, reviewed with oversight and implemented with fairness and common sense - then there maybe some room for debate here.
Sadly the UK lately has plenty of ill thought legislation brought in by pressure groups or as knee jerk reactions to events that could easily have been foreseen. Worse, this legislation is then enforced with a complete lack of foresight and common sense. It's no doubt cheaper to sell a lie (to be seen to be doing something) and invent even more new legislation than it is to properly enforce the legislation we already have?
The law of the land. The laws covering the activity you are engaged in. Pretty simple.
Since when has "Not My Law!" been a legitimate defence?
Judging by some of the comments in this thread, it appears many people are unfamiliar with the fact that the rule of law is a fundamental British value.
Original post by 2WheelGod
So you believe that breaking the law is acceptable if the culprit can come up with a decent excuse?
What about the addict who steals a church collection tray to service their addiction? No victim and the culprit was in dire need.
I'm just saying slavery and segregation was once law. War is still legal. Just because something is legal doesn't mean one has a moral obligation to oblige it
Original post by Guru Jason
I'm just saying slavery and segregation was once law. War is still legal. Just because something is legal doesn't mean one has a moral obligation to oblige it
Indeed. People are can and do take moral stances against what they believe are unjust laws, but they also can and do get sent to prison for breaking them. It's how the law works, until a law is changed.

BTW, are you claiming that the laws against summary execution of captives is morally unjust?
Original post by 2WheelGod
Indeed. People are can and do take moral stances against what they believe are unjust laws, but they also can and do get sent to prison for breaking them. It's how the law works, until a law is changed.
BTW, are you claiming that the laws against summary execution of captives is morally unjust?
No. I am against your statement that the 'law is the law, end of'.
Original post by Guru Jason
No. I am against your statement that the 'law is the law, end of'.
I never made that statement.
Do you think that people should only follow laws that they approve of or agree with?
Original post by 2WheelGod
I never made that statement.
Do you think that people should only follow laws that they approve of or agree with?
You did and I quote your post reply number 4.

"If you have broken the law then you should answer to the law. End of. Literaly NO exceptions.Anyone want to argue with me?"

And yes I believe it is the moral duty of every citizen to not follow unjust law.
(edited 1 month ago)
Original post by Guru Jason
You did and I quote your post reply number 4.
"If you have broken the law then you should answer to the law. End of. Literaly NO exceptions.Anyone want to argue with me?"
And yes I believe it is the moral duty of every citizen to not follow unjust law.
So you admit that I did not say 'law is the law, end of'.

Who decides which laws are "unjust"? You? Me? Does everyone pick and choose to suit themselves or their beliefs?
Original post by 2WheelGod
So you admit that I did not say 'law is the law, end of'.
Who decides which laws are "unjust"? You? Me? Does everyone pick and choose to suit themselves or their beliefs?
Sigh, I'm not gonna waste my time time arguing semantics with you. I paraphrased you and you made me go back and quote you.
Original post by Guru Jason
Sigh, I'm not gonna waste my time time arguing semantics with you. I paraphrased you and you made me go back and quote you.
So to "paraphrase" your statement, "I support people who ignore any laws they don't agree with".

Still waiting for you to explain how that works in practice.
Original post by 2WheelGod
So to "paraphrase" your statement, "I support people who ignore any laws they don't agree with".
Still waiting for you to explain how that works in practice.
Sadly you paraphrase isn't quite correct. I agree with people who don't follow unjust laws.

There are laws I do not like but that does not mean they are unjust, therefore, I follow them.
Original post by Guru Jason
Sadly you paraphrase isn't quite correct. I agree with people who don't follow unjust laws.
There are laws I do not like but that does not mean they are unjust, therefore, I follow them.
Ah, so you can subtly change the meaning when "paraphrasing", but I cannot? Fair enough.

And you still haven't explained who decides which laws are "unjust" or by what standard. Without clarification "I agree with people who don't follow unjust laws" is essentially the same as "I support people who ignore laws they don't agree with".

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