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Do you agree with military action in Libya (poll included.

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Reply 300
Original post by NoFunnyBusiness
Why didn't they intervene in Rwanda, Myanmar and Zimbabwe. Why didn't we intervene when those countries were in the same position....None of those countries have anything the West desires.

Besides, they'd rather they intervened and end the conflict than let it roll into a civil war where oil from the region would be hard to access.

I'm not saying that oil is the soul reason but it plays a size-able part. If the west were really bothered about the oppression of the people in Libya why didn't we start intervening years ago, by not selling arms to Libya's government?


Iran clearly has more oil, why didn't we intervene there? It would actually be ridiculously easy for the US. Simply deploy more forces in Iraq and blitz Iran from there.

I do agree though that the oil is a part of it, especially now that Gaddafi-European relations have reached a low point of no return. But not a significant part. If the oil had been the main interest of the West, they would have simply turned a blind eye on the rebels, if not supported Gaddafi.

That said, I think the main reason is political and therefore symbolic. Right at the shores of Europe, the West would look weak if they did not intervene to such a situations, especially when there was a request by the Arab League.
Original post by Brandmon
Iran clearly has more oil, why didn't we intervene there? It would actually be ridiculously easy for the US. Simply deploy more forces in Iraq and blitz Iran from there.

I do agree though that the oil is a part of it, especially now that Gaddafi-European relations have reached a low point of no return. But not a significant part. If the oil had been the main interest of the West, they would have simply turned a blind eye on the rebels, if not supported Gaddafi.

That said, I think the main reason is political and therefore symbolic. Right at the shores of Europe, the West would look weak if they did not intervene to such a situations, especially when there was a request by the Arab League.

:s-smilie:Who has ever told you that an operation like that would be easy? If you're suggesting it would be 'easy to blitz Iran from there' then you're sadly mistaken. There's a reason why our troops have been in the Middle-East for nearly a decade, Tony Blair's eyes were bigger than his mouth. It would probably take the USA a good 7-8 years to 'deploy more forces in Iraq and blitz Iran'. Soldiers don't grow on trees, I do however, agree about you're views about the oil not being a 'significant part' if these operations that have been carried out in Benghazi.
Original post by Leonie01
This has already been explained a few pages back, sigh. There were UN troops in Rwanda but there was no resolution bc some member states were against it. You should also check in what countries the UN has troops at the moment is intervening, what do they desire in Timor as someone earlier said, please answer this?

It is simply not true that the UN has only intervened in countries where they could gain from. Also, the costs of the intervention will heavily outweigh any Libyan oil resources. The West would have done much easier to side with Gaddafi had they wanted oil so badly. Ugh, why do people keep asking the same things over and over again?

The arms trade is ugly but again sanctions and arm embargos also need approval. Libya got lots of arms from Russia, do you think Russia would agree to an embargo? Your mistake is to lump the UN and the West together. I advise you to check out the good things UN troops have done and are currently doing before accusing them of only intervening in countries where something is to be gained other than peace.


You just don't get it do you?

In your mind...

USA spends x amount on war

oil is worth y amount

x > y therefore oil was not the motive

In reality....

USA taxpayers money is spent on the war

Oil corporations then get the juicy contracts after and the weapons companies make a killing


And in case you haven't worked it out already the government are effectively controlled by these business interests.
Reply 303
Original post by bj_945
Qatar isn't the whole Arab world is it. Qatar is known for being liberal and pro-Western, for an Arab monarchy.

Part of the legitimacy for this whole affait was based in support from the Arab states. If they don't want Libyan lives to be saved, they can have their massacre. Of course plenty of them have their own protests at home.


Its a member of the Arab League though.
Another war,another attempt to bring democracy.
It worked for Iraq,why not here?

Civilian causality will exist either ways... There could have been talks,negotiations than the use of force. What remains in the bold is that as long humans exist so will war.Instead this has provoked some segment of the country into the belief of the 'west' is after our resources.

Btw. who is leading this coalition ? Where are those arab nations which voted over this ?
Oppresion occurs daily,everywhere.

Palestine,Kashmir,China,Mozambique,Somalia why don't we lead one for these too ?

^^
One thing is clear,value of human life is equivalent to what's returned in exchange.

EDIT:If qaddafi was really a righteous ruler he would've stepped down but I guess one reaches the point of in-denial over a prolonged time.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 305
Original post by robin22391
are they shooting civilians or rebels, deaths are in the hundreds the country has a population like scotlands, in the congo 200,000 are dead, go help out there.


OK, I'll call you on this one. With an international consensus, and national consensus to deploy troops if needed, what policy changes would you make on Congo, to make a better humanitarian impact?

I ask because you make out like it is mind-numbingly obvious what line should be taken in the world for better humanitarian benefit than the current action.


that civil war in libya was going to be over within 2 days, now it will last far far longer.


Deaths are in the thousands, and there is no doubt that his revenge on the Libyan people will cost thousands more lives were he successful. Let me illustrate to you what that means:

Right now it means scores of families being blown apart in their houses by military shells. It means revenge attacks where people are brought up to walls, facing Libyan soldiers, and mercilessly shot.

Gaddafi has done this in the past. He killed 1200 political prisoners in one day at Abu Selim in 1996. Thousands of Libyans will face the same fate if his forces prevail. Thousands of individuals will be slaughtered in cold blood, and any soldier who refuses to murder will be murdered in turn.



and more importantly why did the sas have explosives?


It was the SBS, and I have no idea, do you? I don't even know what kind of explosives they were, do you? But I can imagine there are perfectly normal reasons why you might be carrying explosives in an uncertain war-zone.

On the other hand, if the SBS operation was primarily military, why did they have a diplomat with them?

The point is, nobody knows the precise details of why the SBS was there, but as far as I can see the official line seems plausible, and you haven't given any alternative view at all, let alone one that was more plausible.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 306
Original post by ibysaiyan
Another war,another attempt to bring democracy.
It worked for Iraq,why not here?

Civilian causality will exist either ways... There could have been talks,negotiations than the use of force. What remains in the bold is that as long humans exist so will war.Instead this has provoked some segment of the country into the belief of the 'west' is after our resources.

Btw. who is leading this coalition ? Where are those arab nations which voted over this ?
Oppresion occurs daily,everywhere.

Palestine,Kashmir,China,Mozambique,Somalia why don't we lead one for these too ?

^^
One thing is clear,value of human life is equivalent to what's returned in exchange.

EDIT:If qaddafi was really a righteous ruler he would've stepped down but I guess one reaches the point of in-denial over a prolonged time.


Yes, why don't we attack China :confused:

EDIT: Oh and btw you might want to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_%281993%29#Mission_shift
(edited 13 years ago)
Why don't we all just try and talk things over.
Reply 308
Original post by Aj12
Its a member of the Arab League though.


Yes, one of twenty two
Original post by bj_945
Yes, why don't we attack China :confused:

EDIT: Oh and btw you might want to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_%281993%29#Mission_shift


China? now what has it got to do with this?
Clearly USA can't meddle with an exponentially booming economy.

Your point?
Reply 310
Original post by bj_945
Yes, one of twenty two


One country does not speak for the league nor does one man. Might as well Say Ban Ki Moon speaks for the entire world.
Reply 311
Original post by ibysaiyan
China? now what has it got to do with this?
Clearly USA can't meddle with an exponentially booming economy.

Your point?


I was being sarcastic. The poster before me had suggested that if we attack Libya on human rights grounds, presumably we should attack China amongst others.
Reply 312
Original post by Aj12
One country does not speak for the league nor does one man. Might as well Say Ban Ki Moon speaks for the entire world.


I think that was my point?
Reply 313
Original post by bj_945
I think that was my point?


What I am getting at is what the general sectary of the Arab league said is of very limited significance.
I'm just wondering what next... they're saying taking Gaddafi out isn't priority, just all of his military capabilities/anti air batteries, tanks etc.... then what, arm the rebels? Let them fight it out? I doubt that'll happen

Intervention could go further, which is what I think will happen
Reply 315
NO, we dont have a right to police the world
Original post by bj_945
I was being sarcastic. The poster before me had suggested that if we attack Libya on human rights grounds, presumably we should attack China amongst others.


Oh ,I see.
They arent doing anything in the Ivory Coast..

I didnt really read your arguement with the other dude, but I agree with all your points :P
Reply 318
Original post by lukejoshjedi
I'm just wondering what next... they're saying taking Gaddafi out isn't priority, just all of his military capabilities/anti air batteries, tanks etc.... then what, arm the rebels? Let them fight it out? I doubt that'll happen

Intervention could go further, which is what I think will happen


Here is my theory. Force a stalemate. Wipe out any tanks or military units heading towards the East of the country and wipe out gadaffis logistics.

Egypt is arming the rebels. Give them a few weeks to train and arm them. Allow the rebels to call in air strikes when they start their march on Tripoli.

From what I can gather this seems to be the idea. At least from what armchair strategists like me can guess at.

Could be miles off the mark
Reply 319
The doctor added: "Our medical team has been working non-stop since last Tuesday. They are so exhausted. Our resources are almost finished. We ask the international community to at least secure passage for medical supplies and food. We have no water. Yesterday, there were 16 civilian deaths. Today, there were seven civilian deaths. All the injuries you could imagine - head, chest, laparotomy, crushed limbs and amputations. I haven't got the resources to sustain them. In two or three days, I will have to leave all the injured patients dying and bleeding. I have no more resources."

It's getting bad.

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