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rohitronaldo
Most of what you said is true but thought I would point out that - Oxford doesn't maintain a 'non-preferred subjects' category officially and unofficially. They care a lot more about academic potential and interest in the subject you wish to pursue rather than subject choices. In fact Cambridge as a university doesn't have an official list either - it's only Trinity College that publishes one.


I stand corrected in that case. Let me amend that statement to:
Arrowhead
...Whether it was Oxford, Cambridge, LSE or Imperial, Business Studies was always included in the 'non-preferred subjects' category...


rohitronaldo
Second thing I don't agree with is your sweeping statement that it gives you no suitable foundation. I took both Econ and B&M at HL and they were vastly different subjects. I would say it's easier to get a decent grade in B&M than Econ but it's harder to get a 7 in B&M. A 7 in Econ is really quite straightforward. B&M can be quite a handful in some parts - it uses a ton of theories and models (A LOT more than Econ) so there's quite a bit of memorising too. Having said that, you're spot on - universities do frown upon it (for whatever reason, it beats me) both in the UK and the US so it's best not taken if Econ is an option available.


I cannot argue with you about the comparison between Economics and Business as thoroughly as I would like to since I never pursued Business when in the IB. However, a number of my friends went down the same route as you and took both Economics and Business at HL. Across the board, I got to hear from them how painfully simple B&M was. Perhaps there is a lot of memorisation and more theories and what-not, but I find it hard to believe that it was that challenging when you have admitted that achieving a higher grade (though not necessarily a 7, but I am not completely convinced of this as well) is much easier with B&M than with Economics.

From the statistics that I have seen in my own school, I had a friend who was in B&M HL and in my Economics HL class as well. He would fly through with a consistent 6 in B&M (and eventually got a 6 as well), while he struggled to get a 5 in Economics HL (and ended up scraping a 5 in the IB exams with a lot of hard work).

The teachers were equally good and favoured for both classes, yet the statistics showed that the average in Economics HL was a 5.0~something and that for B&M went up to a 6.~something. Also, we would have a staggering percentage (5 or 6 of 17) of HL students in my batch (if I remember correctly) get 7s in B&M HL at my old school; while only a relative minority would achieve the same with Economics HL (I was one of 3 who got 7s in Economics HL that year out of four HL classes totalling to about 40-45 students). A 6.67% grade 7 rate for Economics HL versus a 29-35% grade 7 rate for B&M HL.

rohitronaldo
Sorry, just had to voice my opinion on those statements everything else I definitely agree to and advertise to applicants.


That's cool, like I said before, I have an opinion and I will voice it; and you are completely free and entitled to do the same. :biggrin:
Original post by arrowhead
I stand corrected in that case. Let me amend that statement to:



I cannot argue with you about the comparison between Economics and Business as thoroughly as I would like to since I never pursued Business when in the IB. However, a number of my friends went down the same route as you and took both Economics and Business at HL. Across the board, I got to hear from them how painfully simple B&M was. Perhaps there is a lot of memorisation and more theories and what-not, but I find it hard to believe that it was that challenging when you have admitted that achieving a higher grade (though not necessarily a 7, but I am not completely convinced of this as well) is much easier with B&M than with Economics.

From the statistics that I have seen in my own school, I had a friend who was in B&M HL and in my Economics HL class as well. He would fly through with a consistent 6 in B&M (and eventually got a 6 as well), while he struggled to get a 5 in Economics HL (and ended up scraping a 5 in the IB exams with a lot of hard work).

The teachers were equally good and favoured for both classes, yet the statistics showed that the average in Economics HL was a 5.0~something and that for B&M went up to a 6.~something. Also, we would have a staggering percentage (5 or 6 of 17) of HL students in my batch (if I remember correctly) get 7s in B&M HL at my old school; while only a relative minority would achieve the same with Economics HL (I was one of 3 who got 7s in Economics HL that year out of four HL classes totalling to about 40-45 students). A 6.67% grade 7 rate for Economics HL versus a 29-35% grade 7 rate for B&M HL.



That's cool, like I said before, I have an opinion and I will voice it; and you are completely free and entitled to do the same. :biggrin:


http://www.ibo.org/facts/statbulletin/dpstats/documents/May2010Statisticalbulletin.pdf

Page 32 of that. B&M HL Mean grade: 4.63, Economics HL Mean grade: 5.08

It's possible that on average the smarter kids take Econ HL. Let me reword my earlier statement too: It's much harder to get a 7 in B&M than Econ simply because it's a lot more subjective - both the marking criteria and the questions. And similarly if I took my school statistics: 11 of us got 7s in a total school strength of 40 taking Econ HL while only 5 of us got 7s in B&M when there were nearly 80 of us enrolled in it.

I will admit though my Econ class had a lot of people (including me) taking HL Math so on average we were a much smarter bunch than my Business class. Somehow my subject choice still got me into Oxford but I might be a lucky anomaly in that (did get rejected by LSE solely because of it too). Oh btw you'll be mighty surprised at how deep IB B&M actually goes with regards to accounting and finance. I can read my dad's company's financial statements and make sense of all of it just through 2 years of B&M. Definitely do respect the IB for that.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 802
Thanks arrowhead and rohitronaldo for the advice and i i will consider all the things you guys said. by the way, i read about this guy who takes math studies SL and you said that it was a joke and makes himself uncompetitive. well now i'm worried since our school's ib coordinator put me in maths studies SL even when i asked her to move me atleast to math standards and she didnt because apparently it was "full" (ps i got an A on my gcses higher). now im worried about my diploma being uncompetitive -.-

and btw..they said that taking two HL sciences is extremely hard..and i was in chem class today and it was hard and really, how hard is chemistry?
so can you advice me about these subject choices.

higher : bio math(studies or standard, wherever my teacher "allows" me to go to) & business (i think im gonna stick with this since the school only offers history and geo)
standard: eng, french and chem

sorry for asking too much.
(edited 12 years ago)
If your teacher tells you that you can't enter the Standard class for Maths, not because your grades are lacking, but because the class is apparently "full," tell her you will sue the school and you have the right to do so because she is misguiding and misleading you as an educator.

Maths Studies is a joke of a class and that is universally attested. There are always those group of students who are either a) too lazy or b) genuinely horrid at Maths and cannot cope with it to save their skins. Maths Studies is designed for them. It is most definitely not designed for students who get As in their GCSEs, you could easily manage Maths SL.

In the US, if you have a Studies credit, they make you take loads of classes (in some Universities up to 3-4 semester's worth of Maths) to catch up. In the UK, while your SL subject choices don't make as much of a difference, it's safe to say that if your preferred University had to come down to a decision between picking you and picking another student with a similar prediction for the same course, but that other had Maths SL while you had Studies, rest assured, you will be rejected.

For certain courses in the UK, the SL or Studies class doesn't make any difference: these are generally the Arts courses. For Engineering, even Medicine, or anything Science-related really, SL Maths is expected at the very least, even at the lower-tier Universities. Even for some Social Studies courses, top Unis expect you to take SL Maths (or HL for Economics and Accounting and Finance). When I applied for Law, King's wanted me to get a 5 in SL Maths as part of my offer and Warwick wanted me to get a 4. Maths has nothing to do with Law, yet it was in the offer alongside an English requirement. I don't understand why, but it matters.

You tell your Coordinator that he/she is screwing with your future by putting you in Studies when you can clearly handle the workload in SL and denying you that opportunity due to "scheduling" issues simply displays his/her ineptitude as an administrator in meeting the academic needs of students, which is why you're paying the effing fees.

Honestly, putting a perfectly capable student in Studies because the class is full...the nerve of some people.

Stick with Business if you want to, but make sure you get out of Studies!

Chemistry HL is widely regarded as one of the most difficult IB subjects, right under Maths and Physics HL. It is really, really hard. There's nothing more to it, you have to work in that class and constantly keep up and the lab work is pretty intense, but you have to push through with it.

Having two HL Sciences is an uphill battle, but it isn't impossible. Thousands of students the world over take two HL Sciences along with Maths HL every year and many of them succeed and do exceedingly well in the diploma. Don't let the challenge deter you, relish it, because if you don't relish it, you will cry, a lot.

Honestly, if you're keeping B&M, bring it down to SL, that's the only advice I will give you on that front, the rest is up to you.

Arrowhead.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 804
Currently I am about to study Economics, History and Maths at Higher Level and English, French and Chemistry at Standard Level in IB in the hope to study PPE at university.
However, I have been given a final opportunity to change my subjects and I was thinking about changing to make it more science orientated to keep science subjects as an option for Uni.
Do you think that having an option setup such as Maths, History and Chemistry at HL and French, English and Biology at SL would harm my chances of securing a place to study PPE at a top university. For example, Oxford mention that it is not necessary to have studied either Politcs, Philosophy or Economics; only Higher Level Maths. However, would I need a reason not to have studied Economics and chosen Science subjects instead?
Any help (particularly from PPE students) would be greatly valued! Thankyou in advance.
Original post by warndog
Currently I am about to study Economics, History and Maths at Higher Level and English, French and Chemistry at Standard Level in IB in the hope to study PPE at university.
However, I have been given a final opportunity to change my subjects and I was thinking about changing to make it more science orientated to keep science subjects as an option for Uni.
Do you think that having an option setup such as Maths, History and Chemistry at HL and French, English and Biology at SL would harm my chances of securing a place to study PPE at a top university. For example, Oxford mention that it is not necessary to have studied either Politcs, Philosophy or Economics; only Higher Level Maths. However, would I need a reason not to have studied Economics and chosen Science subjects instead?
Any help (particularly from PPE students) would be greatly valued! Thankyou in advance.


I'm quite sure that they don't require HL Math for PPE although it would be valued highly.
Reply 806
I apologise I'm aware of that, but I know I'm taking maths anyway. I'm sking about whether to drop Economics and how useful it is for getting in to study PPE.
Original post by warndog
I apologise I'm aware of that, but I know I'm taking maths anyway. I'm sking about whether to drop Economics and how useful it is for getting in to study PPE.


I don't think it will hinder your chances but having studied Economics will definitely help you with your Econ interview. If you're able to follow economic issues in the world and maintain your interest in it without taking it as a subject in the IB then go ahead.
Reply 808
thanks again arrowhead. i have considered all your advices and came up with these subjects
higher: bio, english and , math standards (hopefully)
standard: b&m, french and chem
whew.
ysamer
thanks again arrowhead. i have considered all your advices and came up with these subjects
higher: bio, english and , math standards (hopefully)
standard: b&m, french and chem
whew.


Wait so you listed Maths Standards with your higher, then it's no longer Standard, it's Higher Level Maths, which is radically different and regarded as one of the toughest (if not the toughest) IB subject.

And if you are taking Maths SL (hopefully), you only have 2 highers, which doesn't qualify you for the diploma...
i want to do medicine and most universities want some degree of maths.
my school has either got HL or maths studies. they do NOT have SL.

i currently do studies. i realise this may not be enough to get into med school but i honestly feel i couldnt handle maths HL on a whim. i could probably manage if it was my last resort but i dont want to have to do it if it is not necessary.

any advice? my deadline for switching subjects is next week so if there is any advice to be given i need it pretty soon!!!
Btw what is IB? I knew someone at uni who did this and was a little snobbish about it. I'm guessing its supposed to be harder than a-level?
El Mexicano
i want to do medicine and most universities want some degree of maths.
my school has either got HL or maths studies. they do NOT have SL.

i currently do studies. i realise this may not be enough to get into med school but i honestly feel i couldnt handle maths HL on a whim. i could probably manage if it was my last resort but i dont want to have to do it if it is not necessary.


Honestly, it's disgusting your school doesn't offer your SL Maths, they are doing you a disservice and I would suggest you switch to another IB school. However, if you are aiming for Medicine and want to be taken seriously by Med Schools, then you better switch to Higher Level Maths. Think of it as preparing yourself for Med School toughness because Maths HL is very cumbersome, but so will Med School be.

deltabomber
Btw what is IB? I knew someone at uni who did this and was a little snobbish about it. I'm guessing its supposed to be harder than a-level?


Definitely I would say that the IB is much harder than the A-Levels. However, I would also say that people who are sure that they want to pursue their University education in the UK and are sure which course (or general field) they're interested in, should never go for the IB.

But for more of a history lesson this is from wikipedia: The IB...[was]...officially established...for the development and maintenance of the Diploma Programme which would "provide an internationally acceptable university admissions qualification suitable for the growing mobile population of young people whose parents were part of the world of diplomacy, international and multi-national organisations."

It was basically an international system devised for kids whose parents kept moving around (generally diplomatic work), and now is the system most preferred by students who want to study out of their own countries.

Read this for a more detailed idea of what it entails.

Cheers,
Arrowhead.
i have brought it up with my school and i have asked them why they do not have SL. they say that the do not have the staff nor the time to teach Maths Studies, HL AND SL. i cant move eiter becuase the next closest IB school is 40 miles away

although i have been trying to get into contact woth some universitys asking if i can get in with just Studies. UCL replied and said that the ony maths they require is a minimum B at GCSE. no oher uni has responded yet....

also the director of 6th form in my school says that although officially i need some maths on the website, maths is not strictly necessary and that each university cannot discriminate agianst me because it is not my fault the school did not offer SL.

i dont know how true this is but she also says that she has personally put 3 students into med school in oxford and cambridge and that none of those 3 had any higher maths at all.

have my chances improved? or is it really impossible to know?
and when i say she put in 3 without higher maths i mean she put them in without ANY maths after GCSE
Reply 815
Hi,

I'm about to choose my IB subjects. Although I'm not completely sure, I think that I want to pursue a career doing something like law, economics or another social science. Here is what I've chosen so far:

HL
English (Language/Literature)
Economics
Biology

SL
Maths
Chinese B

Now for my last standard level subject, I want to study either philosophy or psychology. Which one would be better and why? I'm currently more swayed to the psychology side although I'm really stuck. Thanks.
(edited 12 years ago)
if you want to go along the social science route i believe you should go with psychology and maybe even consider it for a higher level subject
Your subjects are fine. But if you are serious of keeping Economics open as an option, then maybe you should consider Maths HL as well. Most of the good Unis require you to have Maths HL when applying for Economics courses (they actually don't need you to have Economics, just Maths).

For Law, English HL is all that is really important.

Between Psychology and Philosophy, I would say Psychology, because you will be doing an "Intro to Philosophy" anyway when you do ToK, so it becomes a bit of an overkill in that respect. But go for it if it interests you more.

Cheers,
Arrowhead.
Reply 818
Original post by arrowhead
Your subjects are fine. But if you are serious of keeping Economics open as an option, then maybe you should consider Maths HL as well. Most of the good Unis require you to have Maths HL when applying for Economics courses (they actually don't need you to have Economics, just Maths).

For Law, English HL is all that is really important.

Between Psychology and Philosophy, I would say Psychology, because you will be doing an "Intro to Philosophy" anyway when you do ToK, so it becomes a bit of an overkill in that respect. But go for it if it interests you more.

Cheers,
Arrowhead.


Okay, thanks for the advice! :smile: I think I'm going to take psychology.
I want to do Law (preferably at a Higher Level university)

HL
A1 English <-Compulsory at my college
History
Economics

SL
Biology
Chinease ab initio
Math studies <-Compulsory at my college

Would these be reasonable subjects to get into a higher level university?

I also considering Philosophy over Economics (for another essay writing)
But I heard that Economics would be better as it is more traditional.
aLSO THAT Philosophy is a 'soft' subject and repetitive of ToK.
So would it be better to stick with Economics?
Or would a third essay writing at HL be overkill?

I also am considering taking Biology HL instead of SL as a fourth subject.
(I could always drop down to four if I had to)
As I am confident I could pass well with it as HL.
But I heard that sciences are useless for Law as they do not count towards essay writing.
So would taking Biology at HL have no benefit to me at all?

I most likely already know the answer-
But subject such as Visual Arts and Music will not help at all towards Law even with high points? (Someone said they did as long as you scored highly in them)

Quote me please. Thank you. :smile:
(edited 12 years ago)

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