Your experiences in an NHS mental health unit?
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Original post by zippyRN
how many years have you spent in clinical practice ?
a significant number of patients have unrealistic expectations of what a service will do, many patients discuss this with theior healthcare professional and get an informed understanding of it , others just stick their bottom lips out. ..
a significant number of patients have unrealistic expectations of what a service will do, many patients discuss this with theior healthcare professional and get an informed understanding of it , others just stick their bottom lips out. ..
Don't pretend like you are an adequate mental health care professional. Because with that attitude, you definitely are not.
Stop posting in my thread, I specifically requested patient experiences. I did not ask for petty, judgemental remarks.
Original post by Twinpeaks
Don't pretend like you are an adequate mental health care professional. Because with that attitude, you definitely are not.
Stop posting in my thread, I specifically requested patient experiences. I did not ask for petty, judgemental remarks.
Stop posting in my thread, I specifically requested patient experiences. I did not ask for petty, judgemental remarks.
so it's not possible for a health professional to be a service user as well ...
you really need to look at your attitude towards interaction if you want to have a therapeutic relationship with your professionals
IAAHP but IANYHP
Original post by zippyRN
you don't even know what being unconciously incompetent is , yet you claim ot be able ot pass meaningful judgement on professional practice and education
I suggest you do a little reading before attempting to belittle Practitioners again
I suggest you do a little reading before attempting to belittle Practitioners again
I have several years' clinical practice and know exactly what unconscious incompetence means, so presumably I'm allowed to say you're entirely unable to pass any meaningful clinical judgement based on a couple of forum posts and no knowledge of the person. If you are involved in mental health care, I hope you take the time to gather information before leaping to unfounded judgements.
For the record, the opinion of a close friend or family member is valuable. Whether they have the right vocabulary or not.
Original post by zippyRN
so it's not possible for a health professional to be a service user as well ...
you really need to look at your attitude towards interaction if you want to have a therapeutic relationship with your professionals
IAAHP but IANYHP
you really need to look at your attitude towards interaction if you want to have a therapeutic relationship with your professionals
IAAHP but IANYHP
You have some sort of superiority complex over the fact that you are a nurse.
What is your speciality?
Original post by Twinpeaks
Now I am shocked by this, I thought mental health care has moved on substantially in the last couple of decades. But now I think about it, is it really that surprising.
Now I am shocked by this, I thought mental health care has moved on substantially in the last couple of decades. But now I think about it, is it really that surprising.
TBH I think this is a bit of a naive point of view. Psychiatrists prescribe drugs; hospitals are there to push drugs on patients that don't really want them but have become such a nuisance the law has decided they can be drugged against their will.
Mental health care in this country is bare bones. If you have a bit of depression or anxiety you will probably get an antidepressant or CBT from your GP... both treatments barely better than placebo but luckily most people recover from mild/moderate depression in time anyway.
If you are totally insane and dangerous you will get locked up and drugged.
If you are somewhere inbetween then you are screwed.
I fall in the 'inbetween' category; not bonkers but not helped by basic level care either. There is so little support. No genuine empathy (except from my GP who only has 10 mins to spare every now and then), no genuine care. Only the offer of drugs while the ' professionals' play pass-the-parcel with your treatment and life.
I put "professionals" in quotes because many of them are arrogant, incompetent and seem to be involved in MH care purely as a way to gain emotional gratification by projecting their own issues onto the patient.
If (when) they screw up you will NOT have your complaint taken seriously because it will be considered "part of your condition" to be complaining. In fact the NHS as a whole deals with complaints really badly anyway, but MH services just take that to a whole new level. They will degrade and humiliate you and not think twice about breaking your confidentiality either.
Anon #1 so convinced of your correctness you don't even dare to put your username to your anti psychiatry rant ...
Original post by zippyRN
Anon #1 so convinced of your correctness you don't even dare to put your username to your anti psychiatry rant ...
Zippy what is your problem? All of your posts on this topic come across as really hostile, almost borderline trolling, I don't understand why.
I'm a regular poster and some people in the "real world" know my user ID. I posted as Anon because I don't want to disclose my MH experiences to the whole world. Although I shouldn't be embarrassed to have MH problems I am. MH still carries a stigma.
Although my post may be considered a 'rant' by some I feel it reflects both my own experiences and what I have witnessed.
My experience is psychiatrists primarily prescribe drugs, even if you don't want them. Mental health care in this country (UK) is stretched to breaking point; barely adequate at best, dangerous at worst. It is the system as much as the people.
Unfortunately many of the doctors I have met have been arrogant (refuse to listen, discuss, acknowledge,etc) and 2 have made major mistakes (prescribing unsafe combinations of drugs, writing off serious side-effects as 'hysteria', etc). I can't help that my experience has been bad.
I'm not anti-psychiatry. I have met two excellent psychiatrists over the years but unfortunately they both retired early due to ill health.
No I don't want their sympathy or excessively want better (unrealistic care)
I was told I can't speak to a nurse more than once in an hour period, even when I was desperate state where I needed some human comfort.
If I was restless they would make me take PRN even though restlessness is a side effect of a boring hospital, not a symptom. Even when I was restless for MH reasons they would give me PRN instead of talking.
When I felt better and explained that I was no longer hearing bad voices they said I'd made it up to get out and refused to acknowledge I was better.
I was shouted at, psychologically manipulated (they said well if spies are trying to get you you're better off here, just strengthening my delusions not helping me)
Also, I've been in hospital 13 times so I feel well equipped to discuss such shortcomings.
I was told I can't speak to a nurse more than once in an hour period, even when I was desperate state where I needed some human comfort.
If I was restless they would make me take PRN even though restlessness is a side effect of a boring hospital, not a symptom. Even when I was restless for MH reasons they would give me PRN instead of talking.
When I felt better and explained that I was no longer hearing bad voices they said I'd made it up to get out and refused to acknowledge I was better.
I was shouted at, psychologically manipulated (they said well if spies are trying to get you you're better off here, just strengthening my delusions not helping me)
Also, I've been in hospital 13 times so I feel well equipped to discuss such shortcomings.
(edited 9 years ago)
My experiences haven't been as bad as some, it seems.
I was in an eating disorders clinic and the nurses and support workers were friendly which really helped. But, I did find that there were times where my preferences were ignored because it was the "illness" speaking and not me (which was not the case) - though I do understand it is difficult for outsiders to distinguish between the two.
I do agree with Anon #1 where a psychiatrist does seem pretty keen to give you drugs such as anti-depressants as they seem to solve all problems. I do acknowledge, however, that the anti-depressants did help - I had clinical depression and kept doing things I shouldn't have been - although, I have to say, I think it was mainly a placebo effect.
I think that when one is an in-patient, it is important for consultants and staff to talk with patients and spend time listening to their concerns instead of acting like robots with orders.
I was in an eating disorders clinic and the nurses and support workers were friendly which really helped. But, I did find that there were times where my preferences were ignored because it was the "illness" speaking and not me (which was not the case) - though I do understand it is difficult for outsiders to distinguish between the two.
I do agree with Anon #1 where a psychiatrist does seem pretty keen to give you drugs such as anti-depressants as they seem to solve all problems. I do acknowledge, however, that the anti-depressants did help - I had clinical depression and kept doing things I shouldn't have been - although, I have to say, I think it was mainly a placebo effect.
I think that when one is an in-patient, it is important for consultants and staff to talk with patients and spend time listening to their concerns instead of acting like robots with orders.
Original post by Anonymous
TBH I think this is a bit of a naive point of view. Psychiatrists prescribe drugs; hospitals are there to push drugs on patients that don't really want them but have become such a nuisance the law has decided they can be drugged against their will.
Mental health care in this country is bare bones. If you have a bit of depression or anxiety you will probably get an antidepressant or CBT from your GP... both treatments barely better than placebo but luckily most people recover from mild/moderate depression in time anyway.
If you are totally insane and dangerous you will get locked up and drugged.
If you are somewhere inbetween then you are screwed.
I fall in the 'inbetween' category; not bonkers but not helped by basic level care either. There is so little support. No genuine empathy (except from my GP who only has 10 mins to spare every now and then), no genuine care. Only the offer of drugs while the ' professionals' play pass-the-parcel with your treatment and life.
I put "professionals" in quotes because many of them are arrogant, incompetent and seem to be involved in MH care purely as a way to gain emotional gratification by projecting their own issues onto the patient.
If (when) they screw up you will NOT have your complaint taken seriously because it will be considered "part of your condition" to be complaining. In fact the NHS as a whole deals with complaints really badly anyway, but MH services just take that to a whole new level. They will degrade and humiliate you and not think twice about breaking your confidentiality either.
Mental health care in this country is bare bones. If you have a bit of depression or anxiety you will probably get an antidepressant or CBT from your GP... both treatments barely better than placebo but luckily most people recover from mild/moderate depression in time anyway.
If you are totally insane and dangerous you will get locked up and drugged.
If you are somewhere inbetween then you are screwed.
I fall in the 'inbetween' category; not bonkers but not helped by basic level care either. There is so little support. No genuine empathy (except from my GP who only has 10 mins to spare every now and then), no genuine care. Only the offer of drugs while the ' professionals' play pass-the-parcel with your treatment and life.
I put "professionals" in quotes because many of them are arrogant, incompetent and seem to be involved in MH care purely as a way to gain emotional gratification by projecting their own issues onto the patient.
If (when) they screw up you will NOT have your complaint taken seriously because it will be considered "part of your condition" to be complaining. In fact the NHS as a whole deals with complaints really badly anyway, but MH services just take that to a whole new level. They will degrade and humiliate you and not think twice about breaking your confidentiality either.
Firstly, not everyone in a mental health unit is there by law because they are considered 'a nuisance'. Now that is naive. My friend admitted herself, due to her depression/ anxiety. Their sole purpose is not just to push drugs on you, although it seems that is what happens.
And how on earth is CBT/ drug based therapy barely better than a placebo? I'm sorry but that's just uneducated.
You seem to think that everyone else has it better than you, those with milder and more severe conditions. I'm sorry but that is not the case. Any issues they have with their mental health care is not any less valid than yours.
I understand your complaints with the care you received. And that's all I wanted in this thread, thank you for that input, but some of it just came across arrogant.
Edit: On reflection, sorry for sounding harsh. Considering you have such personal experience with the current care system I've no right to judge you.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Noodlzzz
No I don't want their sympathy or excessively want better (unrealistic care)
I was told I can't speak to a nurse more than once in an hour period, even when I was desperate state where I needed some human comfort.
If I was restless they would make me take PRN even though restlessness is a side effect of a boring hospital, not a symptom. Even when I was restless for MH reasons they would give me PRN instead of talking.
When I felt better and explained that I was no longer hearing bad voices they said I'd made it up to get out and refused to acknowledge I was better.
I was shouted at, psychologically manipulated (they said well if spies are trying to get you you're better off here, just strengthening my delusions not helping me)
Also, I've been in hospital 13 times so I feel well equipped to discuss such shortcomings.
I was told I can't speak to a nurse more than once in an hour period, even when I was desperate state where I needed some human comfort.
If I was restless they would make me take PRN even though restlessness is a side effect of a boring hospital, not a symptom. Even when I was restless for MH reasons they would give me PRN instead of talking.
When I felt better and explained that I was no longer hearing bad voices they said I'd made it up to get out and refused to acknowledge I was better.
I was shouted at, psychologically manipulated (they said well if spies are trying to get you you're better off here, just strengthening my delusions not helping me)
Also, I've been in hospital 13 times so I feel well equipped to discuss such shortcomings.
Yikes.
Was that in a mental health unit within a general hospital or was it a psychiatric hospital?
Original post by Twinpeaks
Yikes.
Was that in a mental health unit within a general hospital or was it a psychiatric hospital?
Was that in a mental health unit within a general hospital or was it a psychiatric hospital?
That incident was at a PICU in a psychiatric hospital.
Original post by Twinpeaks
Firstly, not everyone in a mental health unit is there by law because they are considered 'a nuisance'. Now that is naive. My friend admitted herself, due to her depression/ anxiety. Their sole purpose is not just to push drugs on you, although it seems that is what happens.
And how on earth is CBT/ drug based therapy barely better than a placebo? I'm sorry but that's just uneducated.
And how on earth is CBT/ drug based therapy barely better than a placebo? I'm sorry but that's just uneducated.
I know now everyone in hospital is there against their will, but many are. Sorry for implying it was all.
If you look at the trial data (no I'm not going to find it all and link it, I haven't got the energy), you will see most modern anti-depressants perform barely better than placebo.... we are talking tiny % differences.
And what I said about mild/moderate depression is true, most people do get better over time. That is one reason why placebo response is so high in trails for depression treatment; people generally get better.
Original post by Anonymous
I know now everyone in hospital is there against their will, but many are. Sorry for implying it was all.
If you look at the trial data (no I'm not going to find it all and link it, I haven't got the energy), you will see most modern anti-depressants perform barely better than placebo.... we are talking tiny % differences.
And what I said about mild/moderate depression is true, most people do get better over time. That is one reason why placebo response is so high in trails for depression treatment; people generally get better.
If you look at the trial data (no I'm not going to find it all and link it, I haven't got the energy), you will see most modern anti-depressants perform barely better than placebo.... we are talking tiny % differences.
And what I said about mild/moderate depression is true, most people do get better over time. That is one reason why placebo response is so high in trails for depression treatment; people generally get better.
Could've sworn in one of my modules last year, drug and CBT based therapies came out much better than placebo. Can't remember the study but I could easily find it.
Moderate depression yes, you do tend to get better over time. But that in no way means you don't deserve treatment, it's an incredibly tough period to tackle on your own. Most who defeat it on their own have a good support network at least.
A lot of physical illnesses/ ailments tend to get better over time. But you still don't hesitate in receiving help/ treatment. I don't know why because it's mental you should be left to suffer on the basis that it is possible to recover alone.
Original post by Twinpeaks
Could've sworn in one of my modules last year, drug and CBT based therapies came out much better than placebo. Can't remember the study but I could easily find it.
Moderate depression yes, you do tend to get better over time. But that in no way means you don't deserve treatment, it's an incredibly tough period to tackle on your own. Most who defeat it on their own have a good support network at least.
A lot of physical illnesses/ ailments tend to get better over time. But you still don't hesitate in receiving help/ treatment. I don't know why because it's mental you should be left to suffer on the basis that it is possible to recover alone.
Moderate depression yes, you do tend to get better over time. But that in no way means you don't deserve treatment, it's an incredibly tough period to tackle on your own. Most who defeat it on their own have a good support network at least.
A lot of physical illnesses/ ailments tend to get better over time. But you still don't hesitate in receiving help/ treatment. I don't know why because it's mental you should be left to suffer on the basis that it is possible to recover alone.
I never said people don't deserve treatment because their condition is "only" mild or moderate. Nor did I imply anybody "should be left to suffer on the basis it is possible to recover alone".
What I said was 1) modern antidepressants are not much more effective than placebo. 2) Many people with less severe depression will get better in time with no treatment.
This means there will be a high placebo effect observed. People with 'depression' will be given pills, get better and then assume the pill helped them, when in fact they would have got better with no treatment.
This is just like people with a vital illness being given an antibiotic and then thinking they were cured by the pill.
I am also fairly sure antidepressants are not effective and not even recommended for first line treatment of mild to moderate depression anyway.
Original post by Anonymous
<snip>
I am also fairly sure antidepressants are not effective and not even recommended for first line treatment of mild to moderate depression anyway.
I am also fairly sure antidepressants are not effective and not even recommended for first line treatment of mild to moderate depression anyway.
http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg90/ifp/chapter/treatments-for-mild-to-moderate-depression
only not recommended for first episode of mild or 'mild to moderate'
various situations where it is recommended for mild to moderate inluding failure to respond to the self help type stuff and where someone has previously had moderate or sev ere depression
they are first line treatment for moderate or severe depression
i refer you back to the guidance cited .
Anti depressants are a first line treatment in moderate and severe depression
they may be indicated in mild to moderate depression
Anti depressants are a first line treatment in moderate and severe depression
they may be indicated in mild to moderate depression
Original post by Twinpeaks
Recently, I've had a friend who spent time in an NHS hospital due to being referred to the psychiatric unit and she was very unhappy with the quality of care she received. She felt as if she was just constantly given drugs and received no compassion and was basically ignored.
Now I am shocked by this, I thought mental health care has moved on substantially in the last couple of decades. But now I think about it, is it really that surprising.
The only people who really experience the mental health unit are the patients, and staff. And in any other unit, patient complaints or experiences are listened to, in terms of complaints to the media and within the hospital. But I do feel that because mental health patients are mentally unwell, they aren't given any serious attention. When someone complains about the quality of care they receive in terms of physical health, it's taken seriously. But if someone complains that the quality of mental health care they received is substandard, I worry that people just think along the lines of 'oh well you would think that, given your current state'. Basically. Why should they listen to a mentally ill person.
Obviously in some cases that may be true, but in a lot they aren't. I'm not saying that my friends experience is representative of mental health units across the country, but I'm beginning to worry that if there is substandard care what if it does go unnoticed?
So, I'd just like to hear of any possible experiences that you, or others in your life have experienced. Good and bad. This thread is more for patient experiences as opposed to staff experiences. Thanks
Now I am shocked by this, I thought mental health care has moved on substantially in the last couple of decades. But now I think about it, is it really that surprising.
The only people who really experience the mental health unit are the patients, and staff. And in any other unit, patient complaints or experiences are listened to, in terms of complaints to the media and within the hospital. But I do feel that because mental health patients are mentally unwell, they aren't given any serious attention. When someone complains about the quality of care they receive in terms of physical health, it's taken seriously. But if someone complains that the quality of mental health care they received is substandard, I worry that people just think along the lines of 'oh well you would think that, given your current state'. Basically. Why should they listen to a mentally ill person.
Obviously in some cases that may be true, but in a lot they aren't. I'm not saying that my friends experience is representative of mental health units across the country, but I'm beginning to worry that if there is substandard care what if it does go unnoticed?
So, I'd just like to hear of any possible experiences that you, or others in your life have experienced. Good and bad. This thread is more for patient experiences as opposed to staff experiences. Thanks
I've actually worked briefly in a mental health unit (only as a cleaner!) and its quite shocking. All patients are put under one roof, from the clinically insane to those with anxiety or depression. But, looking at the Niger picture, there are nurses on there working 12 hour shifts with up to 10 patients to care for. That's managing their medication, writing out their notes, right down to what you may consider meaningless like what mood they are in, how much sleep they got, how much dinner they ate. IF anything, I don't think it can be restricted to me all health units - Id argue it's all units!
Original post by MariaJB
I've actually worked briefly in a mental health unit (only as a cleaner!) and its quite shocking. All patients are put under one roof, from the clinically insane to those with anxiety or depression. But, looking at the Niger picture, there are nurses on there working 12 hour shifts with up to 10 patients to care for. That's managing their medication, writing out their notes, right down to what you may consider meaningless like what mood they are in, how much sleep they got, how much dinner they ate. IF anything, I don't think it can be restricted to me all health units - Id argue it's all units!
Clinically insane? Could of worded that a bit better.
I am writing a book and I think I want one of the characters to have a short stay in a mental health unit. If you guys could help with the details, it would be much appreciated. I'm sorry if this is offensive in any way. Thanks.
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