Netanyahu claims Hitler didn't want to kill Jews.

A comparison against another negative doesn't legitimise your argument. Nowhere did I suggest any other nation, never mind someone like Saudi Arabia, should carry out such an investigation. I think you should stop living in fantasy and take some time out to observe the real world for what it is.

Don't respond on two different posts in the same thread - it gets confusing so do them both in one post if possible.

But the nazis persecuted Jews , gypsies, gays and others from a start. The reason so many more Jews died was mainly that there were so many more Jews.
To him they were all enemies of the state, less than human- arguing which one he hates more is unnecessary - they all perished under his rule.

Of course it has been. The fact that Jewish people are part of the movement has no actual bearing on the question of Holocaust denial. There are gay people who are among the most aggressive homophobes when they are in the closet.

Indeed, Gilad Atzmon who is a darling of the BDS movement is a Jewish Israeli and is also without a doubt one of the most virulent anti-semites and Holocaust deniers around today. And Palestinians leaders and the Iranian government have regularly questioned the actualite of the Holocaust

Anti-Zionism is not inherently anti-semitic, and most anti-zionists are not Holocaust deniers. But there are many anti-semites who use anti-zionism as an acceptable public face for their beliefs. The anti-Zionist movement has been less than conscientious in rooting them out (hence Atzmon is still regularly welcomed to speak at such events. Stephen Sizer, while thrown out of BDS, still enjoys the support and attendance at his yearly DYR event of BDS/anti-Zionist luminaries)

Hilarious considering Zionists funded Nazism as the persecution of Jews across Europe and the wider world actually helped push Jews towards both political Zionism and relocating to Israel to avoid that persecution. People also like to forget the fact that Zionists funded many of the gulags in the USSR. The fact is, people get rich from creating war, intervening and creating mass panic, whether its socially or financially in the markets, as they capitalise on events they have orchestrated to play out. This is hardly anything new.


Don't tell the truth. People don't like it.


The Jews is a daft term. There's a world of difference between a Zionist and a typical Jewish person just wanting to get on with their life. There are plenty of Jews who don't go to Israel and have no wish to be politically involved with Zionism or Israel.

Its funny because Zionists like to band out the 'anti-Semitism' nonsense when you criticise political Zionism yet really its nothing of the sort. You can be completely critical of Zionism whilst having nothing against Jews. Zionism has become an untouchable horrible political movement that you can barely speak out against any more because people instantly jump to label you an anti-Semite.

Even WW2 was orchestrated all to help people get rich and impose financial control upon nations for years to come. Everything is about money, power and control. Look up the history of the Rothschild's from 1890-1935.

I agree that many anti-semites may have used anti-zionism as a public face for belief. I'm glad you're not one of those foolish people that believe anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism, which is what many Zionists try to argue.

In fact President Mahmoud Abbas called the holocaust "the most heinous crime to have occurred against humanity in the modern era" and I agree with him.

Simply because my anti-Zionist stance targets Zionists, not Jews.

I'm not sure Netanyahu meant it in the way it came out. I think what he meant was that prior to the Grand Mufti's suggestion, that Hitler did not intend a final solution genocide as the answer to the "Jewish question". Of course the way he said it was utterly idiotic, and I would never say what he did. But I think the true debate has to be over what he meant, not how it came out. And I do think it is fair to draw attention to the linguistic issue; while he does speak English well, sometimes people may not understand all the nuances of what they said. I think this really comes down to whether when he said "Hitler did not want to kill the Jews", did he actually mean "Hitler did not intend to pursue a genocide of European Jewry as the final solution". Do you think that if Netanyahu did mean the latter that it is reasonable to draw attention to the distinction?

It is true that killings had begun before, but I think the question is whether Hitler intended a final solution prior to the Mufti's suggestion. You are absolutely right to say that Netanyahu's intention was astonishingly vulgar, offensive (to Palestinians, not to Holocaust victims) and that his intention was to smear the Palestinians. On the other hand, I think there is a legitimate area of historical dispute where Palestinians say, "Why should we pay for the Holocaust? We had nothing to do with it" to point out that historically speaking there was a connection between the Palestinian leadership and the Nazi regime.

What I am rejecting is the response from anti-Zionists in saying this makes him a Holocaust denier; he clearly is not. It also piques my anger given that the anti-Zionist movement has long had associations with Holocaust deniers and thus it seems hypocritical for them to then affect utter outrage at this comment,

The fact that the Palestinian leadership was strongly tied to the Nazis does not justify any action against the Palestinians of today, of course the idea is abhorrent and I can see that Netanyahu is trying to make that connection in order to justify his policies.

Glad you agree this was a racially motivated accusation made to smear the Palestinians.

Glad you agree.

If you're going to be like that then I should probably head off to bed. It's too late for silly point-scoring. You made a thread putting your point of view, I made comments offering mine.

You are good to debate with when you are being respectful, and I know you are not maliciously-motivated, but you have a tendency to cross the line sometimes and say things that seem designed to provoke or insult. I'm sure you're aware you have a way with words and I think you should be more considerate of using that talent to hurt or provoke other people.

Anyway, good night.

I do not believe that anti-Zionism is inherently anti-semitic, but I do believe that it is often anti-semitic in practice. The way that Israel is singularly demonised, that it is depicted to be somehow uniquely evil and uniquely (amongst nations) an abuser of human rights, is deeply unsettling and where people obsess over Israel to the exclusion of all other nations that engage in human rights abuses, it does raise legitimate questions about what motivates it.

There is no doubt in my mind that many in the Middle East are opposed to the idea of a Jewish state because it's Jewish, and that if Israelis were Muslims then they would not be fundamentally opposed to it in the way they are (I would assume you accept that many oppose it on the belief that Israel is "Muslim land" rather than on political/nationalistic grounds?)

But I do take the position that there are people who are opposed to Zionism because they are opposed to all such forms of ethnic/religious nationalism, that they believe it is wrong for a state to have come about in the way Israel did, and that they are equally critical of other nations who engage in similar behaviour (and that they are equally active in criticising both, not just saying they are opposed to others as much as Israel but then spending 100% of their time on Israel).



President Abbas' record on that is murky, to say the least. I am certainly pleased he made those comments, which I've seen before. On the other hand, his PhD thesis which he completed in the Soviet Union in the 1980s essentially posited that the Holocaust was a conspiracy between Nazis and Jews to bring about a Zionist state, and that the death toll had been greatly exaggerated.

In 2009, Hamas exploded with outrage when they discovered that UNRWA schools would be teaching a module on the Holocaust, labelling it a "Zionist lie".

The number of times Hamas and Fatah leaders have questioned the historicity of the Holocaust are too numerous to mention, but I'd encourage you to go and look them up on Google as they are freely available.

Surely you cannot seriously dispute that Holocaust denial is pretty common in the Islamic world?



Are you opposed on principle to any Jewish state in the Levant, no matter how small, even if it was only made up of Jewish majority areas / groups of Jewish people who had always lived in Israel/Palestine and never left?

Netanyahu is claiming that Hitler didn't want to kill Jews and that he was persuaded into the final solution by the Palestinians.
There is no a jot of evidence for that.
This is a clear attempt to try and blame the Palestinians for the holocaust to suit his narrative and he doesn't even seem to care that he is sympathizing with Hitler.

I'm Jewish and i'm utterly embarrassed and ashamed of Netanayhu. What an awful, awful person.

We know why.

Because those who were part of it were not allowed to deny their crimes

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525

Yes he actually said it. He is claiming that Hitler did not want to kill Jews and it was the idea of the Palestinian mayo of Jerusalem.
He is saying it was the Palestinians that persuaded Hitler to adopt the final solution.
This is coming from the PM of Israel.

It is an outrageous attempt to try and blame Muslims for he Holocaust and in doing so has become a Hitler sympathizer.


Imagine if some nut job said Hitler didn't want to kill Jews - they'd be accused of being an anti-semite.

Nobody is ever told about the Madagascar plan.