Man arrested with guns and a koran at Disneyland Paris

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

You don't have a right not to be offended and we are not obliged to refrain from insulting and ridiculing Muhammad.

Or flying horses

Or thinking the opinion of those who do believe in flying horses can be taken with a pinch of salt (and in some cases simply dismissed)

Reply 83

Original post by Student1408

Haven't you guys ever thought that maybe people are just using Islam as an excuse to do terrible acts.

How are they able to do this? What is it about Islam that enables them to use it as an excuse for violence and oppression?

Those people who are shouldn't be considered as Muslims even if they do look like ones because what they are doing is certainly not what Islam is about!

Why not? If they take the shahada sincerely, and follow the 5 pillars, then who are you to say they are not Muslims or following Islam properly? Pretty much everything they do can be justified by some passage of the Quran of sunnah. The argument that such stuff is no longer acceptable in the 21st century doesn't wash with those who take the Quran's claims about infallible immutability seriously.

Those families in Syria who have done nothing wrong are dying for no absolute reason. How about those innocent children that are dying everyday and all we can do is sit here and criticise people and talk about about things that aren't going to help anyone in any way.

One of the reasons that they are suffering and dying is that they follow the wrong interpretation of Islam, so there are others who will call takfir on them (much in the same way that you did above - except those people take the sunnah seriously when it says that such people should be killed. Hopefully, you reject those passages).

Reply 84

Original post by QE2

How are they able to do this? What is it about Islam that enables them to use it as an excuse for violence and oppression?

That's the same for any ideology or any system.

In a democratic system where we have human rights, we can curtail those rights which would result in violence and oppression, all in the name of "security".

In a truly capitalist society, we can encourage the oppression of the very poor thus excusing any harsh or violent measures imposed upon them.

Scientific research can help us support a program of eugenics to rid the world of undesirables and those who have deformities, for the betterment, as well as the advancement of humans.

It's naive of you to simply claim that this is an issue wholly inherent within religion, when any system or ideology can be used to justify, excuse or condone heinous acts.

Reply 85

Original post by TheArtofProtest

That's the same for any ideology or any system.

pacifism: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacifism

You need to be careful when painting in broad strokes as you usual make the rest of your post irrelevant when you start with something that is demonstrably wrong

Reply 86

Original post by BaconandSauce

Many pacifists see nothing wrong with the use of violence as a means of self-defence or the destruction of (private) property in order to raise awareness of an issue, the acts which may constitute the use of violence and lead to the oppression of someone.

I suggest that you actually go out and interact with people, instead of simply throwing labels around without really understanding what it means or involves.

Reply 87

Original post by TheArtofProtest

Link please (as your opinion seems to off a lot recently)

Reply 88

Original post by BaconandSauce

Link please (as your opinion seems to off a lot recently)

Thankfully, one of us actually read the link that you provided.

Reply 89

Original post by TheArtofProtest

Thankfully, one of us actually read the link that you provided.

Yes I have as well so you can of course show me where it says

'Many pacifists see nothing wrong with the use of violence as a means of self-defence or the destruction of (private) property in order to raise awareness of an issue'

Because I've read it twice now and can't see that bit

Reply 90

Original post by BaconandSauce

So you are telling me in the link you provided, there was nothing about "self defence" and "property"?

Reply 91

username2053059

Original post by anonwinner

Here are some statistics that might change your mind:

Policy Exchange: 61% of British Muslims want homosexuality punished http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

Center for Social Cohesion: 40% of British Muslim students want Sharia http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340599/WikiLeaks-1-3-British-Muslim-students-killing-Islam-40-want-Sharia-law.html

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06 http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Channel Four (2006): 31% of younger British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified compared to 14% of those over 45.http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/publications/living%20apart%20together%20-%20jan%2007.pdf

BBC Radio (2015): 45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam".http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31293196

GfK NOP: 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: 62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech;Only 3% adopt a "consistently pro-freedom of speech line" http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

ICM Poll: 58% of British Muslims believe insulting Islam should result in criminal prosecution http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

None of your CBS links work??

Reply 92

HAnwar

Original post by BaconandSauce

I have and given your previous posts it's obvious what you are trying to do.

And you didn't bring this up another poster did and you replied by trying to cover his faults something which according to you earns you a pat of the back from your god.

Look it's this simple since you made that post all of your other post can been understood in that context.

For the sake of this argument, let's assume this story is true. How can I possibly 'cover' his faults, if his 'faults' are already plastered all over the news?

I was merely defending him because I KNOW he was falsely accused.
If I thought he was guilty I wouldn't have quoted the user in the first place.

It's quite sad how you're twisting my words, and you have no understanding of what that hadith means.

Reply 93

JezWeCan!

Original post by HAnwar

No, you're the gullible one who's probably just got his facts from biased news sources.

I know this family, they live like down the road and their family isn't like that. The guy is a honest man and the media have a reputation of making big stories like this for profit.

His relative prayed at the same mosque as a terrorist killer. Big deal. I've prayed in many mosques, might have been the same one as a terrorist.
For goodness sake, it wasn't even the same Facebook account. The guy's name is Hamza, you know there are like a million Hamzas in the world?

"The family isn't like that." Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

Reply 94

Sgt_Haytham

Original post by luminarychild

If that's your logic then I conclude from your statement that peace is non existent in the world because an individual of any possible background has committed crime and that we should oppose their native lands, culture and people too? Including our own british people? who seem to get away woth rape and crime as most of the attention is going towards Islam.

You're even starting to sound radical, it's rather frightening.

Original post by luminarychild

They are not following the quran word by word, give me an example? they are trying to forcefully repeat history which will never happen, as the quran states signs of qiyamah that Islam is more likely to fade away when judgement day calls.

Well the prime example would be that the Qu'ran explicitly states to kill the "non-believers"...

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

You, for instance, don't believe in the above (I hope). You don't think it's moral to kill non-believers because you accept us.

ISIS follows this, word for word.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Why would it die out on "judgement day"??

Reply 95

Original post by TheArtofProtest

That's the same for any ideology or any system.

I'm trying to think of another ideology that explicitly calls for the death of those that oppose it. Especially one that is subscribed to by over 1 billion people.

In a democratic system where we have human rights, we can curtail those rights which would result in violence and oppression, all in the name of "security".

In a truly capitalist society, we can encourage the oppression of the very poor thus excusing any harsh or violent measures imposed upon them.

It's naive of you to simply claim that this is an issue wholly inherent within religion, when any system or ideology can be used to justify, excuse or condone heinous acts.

You are entirely correct that there are other political and social systems that are imperfect, but whataboutery is not a defence that is used by the intellectually honest.

Moreover, my question was specifically asking what it is about Islam that, when implemented literally and without any modern, revisionist spin, always seems to result in death or oppression for so many people - bearing in mind that it is not some man-made system devised to gain and maintain power, but the final and perfect revelation of an infallible, omniscient being as the ultimate guide for a perfect society?

So I ask again, why is this? (Answers to the question, rather than something completely irrelevant would be appreciated).

Scientific research can help us support a program of eugenics to rid the world of undesirables and those who have deformities, for the betterment, as well as the advancement of humans.

But I'm not aware of any ideology that espouses this.
And define "undesirables".
Also, your premise that euthanising the disabled will benefit society is fundamentally flawed, as we have clear evidence that those with "deformities" can make valuable contributions to society.

Although, we are actually following a program of "eugenics-lite", by identifying and attempting to correct genetic predisposition to certain conditions. Do you object to this?

Reply 96

Original post by luminarychild

Yes four lions the comedy film reflects upon Islam so well :colonhash:

excellent understanding you have there m8

You think that a film by Chris Morris is just a "comedy film"?

It was a savage satire on the nature of indoctrination and fanaticism.
Jeez, talk about misunderstanding!

BTW, just in case you are still under any misapprehansion, I my comment was not comparing the characters in Four Lions to actual Muslims (they were clearly parodies within a satire.) It was an ironic misdirection where humour was supposed to be derived from my apparent thinking that Four Lions was some kind of documentary.
You're not supposed to actually think that I actually think that!
I'm sure there's irony in there somewhere as well.

Reply 97

Original post by HAnwar

For the sake of this argument, let's assume this story is true. How can I possibly 'cover' his faults, if his 'faults' are already plastered all over the news?

by saying something like

Original post by HAnwar

I was merely defending him because I KNOW he was falsely accused.
If I thought he was guilty I wouldn't have quoted the user in the first place.

And then by saying

Original post by HAnwar

It's quite sad how you're twisting my words, and you have no understanding of what that hadith means.

When the hadith is quite clear and this does look like a good example of you following it.

Reply 98