Government loses article 50 court fight

Original post by NickLCFC

Perfect. They look like the kinda people I would want to start an uprising with.

Just make sure you have a good supply of cocoa, zimmers and ginseng tea.

Reply 101

username878267

15

The reaction of people towards the justice's of the high court today has been shocking.

The High Court's role is to judge a case on it's legal merits, not it's political merits. Saying 'people voted to leave so therefore the court should ignore legal and constitutional principles' is absurd.

The Court were tasked with determining, as a matter of British Constitutional Law, whether the government needs Parliamentary approval to leave the EU, it has ruled that we do on the basis of well established, legal principles.

People seem to think that our court should do away with legal principles and judge it solely on political considerations.

Reply 102

Maker

Original post by yudothis

What a German sounding name loooool

(
The Queen's real name is Frau Battenberg (nee Sax Koberg Gotha)

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 103

Original post by NickLCFC

Parliament voted 544 to 53 to hold the referendum in the first place.

I don't have a problem with Parliament voting on invoking article 50 but if they ignore the will of the British people then there will probably be violence.

As before I refer you to the below. Besides, it says a LOT about brexiters if they threaten violence if they don't get their own way. The irony of course is that often brexiters talk about preserving democracy, but are totally fine with physically destroying the country they claim to love and are totally cool with a dictatorship style of govt if it means they get us out of the EU...

Original post by The_Internet

Cos the over 50's are known for rioting..

Reply 104

RogerOxon

Original post by SaucissonSecCy

It wasn't about a 'UKIP style' Brexit.

It was about whether we leave the single market and completely restore independence.

And there's the problem - different people thought that they'd get different things by voting leave. In reality, I suspect most will not get what they thought that they voted for.

Another major issue is that there was so narrow a gap between the stay and leave votes, but we're embarking on a multi-year process. By the time it's complete, I would not be at all surprised if the vote would be to stay.

Reply 105

yudothis

Original post by Maker

(
The Queen's real name is Frau Battenberg (nee Sax Koberg Gotha)

Yes I know. Just pointing out how many English seem to have forgotten that :wink:

Reply 106

username917703

17

Original post by AperfectBalance

If it does not happen there will be riots

No there won't. There will be a Change.Org petition and a hashtag.

Reply 107

username1969391

14

Original post by The_Internet

As before I refer you to the below. Besides, it says a LOT about brexiters if they threaten violence if they don't get their own way. The irony of course is that often brexiters talk about preserving democracy, but are totally fine with physically destroying the country they claim to love and are totally cool with a dictatorship style of govt if it means they get us out of the EU...

Yet no one in this thread has actually threatened violence.

Besides, people wouldn't be angry because "they didn't get their own way", they would be angry because the result a democratic referendum would be ignored. In my opinion, people who voted Remain should be just as outraged if article 50 isn't triggered.

Reply 108

TimmonaPortella

This is at least a plausibly correct decision on the law.

What it is not is a political mandate for Parliament to block the vote. If that happens, it will properly be regarded as democratically illegitimate.

Reply 109

J_89

15

Original post by NickLCFC

And he shouldn't be arguing with someone who conflates wanting to control immigration to being completely opposed to immigration. Peace.

Fair enough, that is an assumption based on masses of anecdotal evidence that people who prioritise "controlling immigration" above all else tend to be anti-immigrant.

But that's correlation not causation.

I'm really done with Brexit and the whole awful situation.

It's going to happen. And I'm lucky enough to be able to get out.

You love it - OK, I hope it works out the way you think it will i.e. great for the British people. I highly doubt it will.

We agree to disagree.

Reply 110

Original post by NickLCFC

Yet no one in this thread has actually threatened violence.

Besides, people wouldn't be angry because "they didn't get their own way", they would be angry because the result a democratic referendum would be ignored. In my opinion, people who voted Remain should be just as outraged if article 50 isn't triggered.

Nope, but people are mentioning that there WILL be violence. Tbf in the comments section of many news outlets, brexiters have actually threatened violence and ...civil war. Perhaps they're the vocal minority, but remain supporters never said this... . Please tell me when we ever ruled with a direct democracy in the UK? Leave supporters said that parliament should be sovereign for months and now that parliament does something you don't like (Because of what our elected representatives say, as is usual in democracies like ours) that's apparently bad.. There's a reason that the Greeks thought direct democracy was stupid too.

The only reason people who voted remain should be angry if a50 isn't triggered is if when parliament votes on this issue, and IF they say we should leave the EU and THEN it isn't triggered, yes that wouldn't be very democratic, within our current system.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 111

Original post by Wilfred Little

No there won't. There will be a Change.Org petition and a hashtag.

There will only be a "riot" on twitter. Besides, I would love to see the over 50s riot. That'd be hilarious.

Reply 112

username1969391

14

Original post by The_Internet

Nope, but people are mentioning that there WILL be violence. Tbf in the comments section of many news outlets, perhaps they're the vocal minority, but the vocal minority of remain supporters never said this... Any how, many brexiters have actually threatened violence. Please tell me when we ever ruled with a direct democracy in the UK? Leave supporters said that parliament should be sovereign for months and now that parliament does something you don't like (Because of what our elected representatives say, as is usual in democracies like ours) that's apparently bad.. There's a reason that the Greeks thought direct democracy was stupid too.

The only reason people who voted remain should be angry if a50 isn't triggered is if when parliament votes on this issue, and IF they say we should leave the EU and THEN it isn't triggered, yes that wouldn't be very democratic, within our current system.

Predictions of violence ≠ threatening violence.

Since you clearly have a problem with democratic referendums and the British people deciding the fate of their country then does that mean we should discard the outcomes of all previous referendums? How about the decision to Remain part of the EU (common market) in 1975?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 113

AperfectBalance

Original post by The_Internet

Nope, but people are mentioning that there WILL be violence. Tbf in the comments section of many news outlets, brexiters have actually threatened violence and ...civil war. Perhaps they're the vocal minority, but remain supporters never said this... . Please tell me when we ever ruled with a direct democracy in the UK? Leave supporters said that parliament should be sovereign for months and now that parliament does something you don't like (Because of what our elected representatives say, as is usual in democracies like ours) that's apparently bad.. There's a reason that the Greeks thought direct democracy was stupid too.

The only reason people who voted remain should be angry if a50 isn't triggered is if when parliament votes on this issue, and IF they say we should leave the EU and THEN it isn't triggered, yes that wouldn't be very democratic, within our current system.

Yes that is me saying there will be riots. Not I want there to be riots, or that I will join in with riots. I will peacefully protest if we do not leave the EU.

And stop it with your nonsense about it being all over 50's and have some respect for the people that live in the country.

Reply 114

Joep95

19

Original post by The_Internet

As before I refer you to the below. Besides, it says a LOT about brexiters if they threaten violence if they don't get their own way. The irony of course is that often brexiters talk about preserving democracy, but are totally fine with physically destroying the country they claim to love and are totally cool with a dictatorship style of govt if it means they get us out of the EU...

Can you name 1 country where democracy includes ignoring the majority of the countries citizens?

Reply 115

Original post by NickLCFC

Predictions of violence ≠ threatening violence.

Since you clearly have a problem with democratic referendums and the British people deciding the fate of their country then does that mean we should discard the outcomes of all previous referendums? How about the decision to Remain part of the EU (common market) in 1975?

Again... If you read what I said, I wasn't talking about THIS thread in particular. Tbh that one was also decided by..parliament too. They had the final say. Parliament is sovereign. I think that direct democracy is stupid. It gives Shelly from Barnsley with no A levels a say in the actual workings of the country. At least when you elect a representative, they're actually educated, even IF they disagree with your point of view.

Original post by AperfectBalance

Yes that is me saying there will be riots. Not I want there to be riots, or that I will join in with riots. I will peacefully protest if we do not leave the EU.

And stop it with your nonsense about it being all over 50's and have some respect for the people that live in the country.

Again...read the above. I wasn't talking about this thread. Besides, most people who did vote leave were over 50. I'd like to see them riot. It'd be really funny.

Hordes are forming.

Original post by joecphillips

Can you name 1 country where democracy includes ignoring the majority of the countries citizens?

Like most democracies..ever, as most democracies don't do..direct democracy. One such country is...the UK. You elect in your representatives. They then make the important decisions. Democracy isn't devolved to the common man for a very good reason. The Greeks thought that was stupid too.

Every single representative democracy works on the basis of..you elect in your representatives. They make the important decisions. I think only Switzerland has direct democracy.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 118

Joep95

19

Original post by The_Internet

Like most democracies..ever, as most democracies don't do..direct democracy. One such country is...the UK. You elect in your representatives. They then make the important decisions. Democracy isn't devolved to the common man for a very good reason. The Greeks thought that was stupid too.

Do politicians normally ignore what people want? I don't think they do.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 119

TimmonaPortella