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Thugs attack gay pride

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The reason why in the 50s till the 80s that nobody cared of who was gay, was that Poland was a communist state, communist countries unlike religious churches cared little about homosexuality

Original post by PTMalewski

I didn't say they're harming anyone. I've been trying to explain that LGBT activism is seen as a threat. These thugs are suffering from what is called 'Siege mentality'. It's mainly the fault of the Church who's been telling them for the last two decades that homosexualism is bad, LGBT is devil etc.

Some agressive LGBT activists, dressed extremely inappropriately and shouting "Your children will be just like us!" are not helping either, they're only confirming their fears.

I'm okay with such people as well. Also, the second most powerful opposition politician in Poland by now is gay. That's not the point.

Very well. Do you have any data or a logical argument or at least a personal observation to support your opinion?
Because we can differ in opinions, but if we'll be just saying; 'You're wrong', 'No, you're wrong!' we're not going to get anywhere.
You also can't determine whenever LGBT is or isn't a downfall factor. Even if that's actually verifiable, we'd need to wait two hundred years or sth. All we know is that sexual liberty was turning up in advanced civilizations during their decline periods.

The fact remains that such parades in Poland have actually been organised since 2002, and if I recall, it wasn't ever that bad, so the situation is actually getting worse
I think this problem won't be solved untill Pope Francis does an option 0 with the Polish church, kicking out all the backward and corrupt bishops, or untill the Polish rationalist circles won't re-educate the society against the Church. They're doing great job in the internet.

To make things clear: I'm not entirely if these parades are a bad idea, I'm only saying that so far they don't seem to work. And seeing how the affirmation agendas in the cinema, is actually pissing people off, I strongly suspect the parades might actually be counterproductive. Especially in Poland, where Siege mentality is common and vivid.
You must take into account, that what works in one country, doesn't necessarily have to work in another, because of cultural differences.
The cultural blindness of the West is directly responsible for triggering the Islamic revolution in Iran, the disastrous situation in Libya, and has done a great deal of damage to the situation in Syria.
'LGBT pride' is now war issue, but since there are doubts, if this actually works in the West, there should be even more doubts if it will work elsewhere.

Reply 61

PTMalewski

Original post by Scrollery

The reason why in the 50s till the 80s that nobody cared of who was gay, was that Poland was a communist state, communist countries unlike religious churches cared little about homosexuality

Before Stalin's death, and for some times after, homosexuals in the East Block countries were actually imprisoned or sent to Gulags. This has changed somewhere in the late 50ies or even not before the 60ies.

But that wasn't the point (especially that Poles weren't very serious about the law, otherwise we wouldn't get anywhere).
The point is that a whole city would know that a certain teacher in a certain school is gay, and nobody was giving a toss about it.

I agree that the hateful speech of the Church has done a lot of damage.

Reply 62

PTMalewski

Original post by z-hog

Believe it or not, the post you were replying to was removed and I got a warning for it!

Apparently, someone thought accusing Poles of racism, without any supported reason is ok. but criticising Iran isn't.

Aside from posts removal, this accusation of racism is really frustrating.
You can call modern Poles xenophobic and backward, and I'm fine with it. I even admitt that they really are like that.
But calling them racist is just not fair. Poles have never been racist and even today they aren't. Even Polish alt-right accepts Blacks and Asians, some even take part in their events and are invited as special guests if they're experts on something, or they're famous sportsmen or celebrities.

We would have never survived if we included ethnicity into our definition of Polishness. Throught entire history, we always had to adopt people of different nations, and sometimes even races and religions, to be our citizens. People were priceless, regardless of their origin, because we required as many as possible to deal with bigger, stronger or more advanced enemies surrounding us. That's why we were taking any numbers of Jews, any time they were expelled from somewhere else, why in our biggest medieval battle we had 6 different nations and 4 different religions in our army and why we later created a true multi-cultural state, in which we had 10+ nations, 8+ religions and 2 different races. Our Republic didn't fall due to 'mismanagement'. It fell, because it's democratic system that was designed to protect the rights of people of different religions and origins, in time prove to be vulnerable to corruption, interference from external powers, and the bad effects of worsening level of education that happened due the the extensive damage taken by the country due to invasions of the XVIIth century, and Counter-Reformation launched by the Catholic Church.

But in terms of racial issues, nothing has changed. We had perhaps the first Black general in Europe, and today even the alt-right is ok. with people of different races. Yes, a few racists turn up here and there from time to time, obviously at patriotic events, but isn't it the case everywhere? My friend's family who live in Birmigham were threatened and assaulted several times, only because they're Polish, and a guy I met maybe 4 weeks ago, told me he was attacked on a train to Ediburgh, by 'some boys from Newcastle who thought he was Jewish'.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 63

z-hog

Original post by PTMalewski

Apparently, someone thought accusing Poles of racism, without any supported reason is ok. but criticising Iran isn't.

Tak.

Aside from that, it is really frustrating. You can call modern Poles xenophobic and backward, and I'm fine with it. I even admit that they really are like that.

I've been to Poland a few times, Warsaw, Wroclaw, Legnica, Czestochowa, Krakow, Poznan, Oswiecim, driven there and back a couple of times. I can appreciate all that you say, the Eastern Countries were indeed part of a big but closed society without an imperial past to get them used to other races and the cultural influence of the Catholic Church is very much the DNA of the nation, as much as it is with other countries. Poles are good people, culturally conditioned as much as everybody else wherever they are in the world.

Reply 64

PTMalewski

I think that transcontinental imperialism is actually what originally created racism.
People from a rather advanced, in terms of economy and technology, civilisation, went to Africa, saw people hunting with wood and stopne spears and living in houses made of grass and clay, and they misconcluded.
The belief of arrivers, thay they follow the only true religion, while the locals didn't only helped the prejudice to develop.

Poles had practically not heard of African people, before Konstanty Jabłonowski adopted a Black child who was given excellent, international education, and became a general and Kościuszko's Insurgency hero. And later on, who would we despise?
Brilliant Jazz musicians? Or now, professors, doctors, actors, engineers?
All there was, we were used to people of different nations, and looks, because hundreds of thousands were immigrating into the country where they were given equal rights or even special priviledges. Jews had special priviledges. Tatars were given nobility status, and rights equal to the local nobility.
My great grandfather had a Tatar wife, I'm partly Asian myself. A friend called me "Chinese" in primary school.

There's a lot to be repaired in Poland, I'm angry about how *****y many things are in here everyday, but in terms of racism, I think we're not worse than anyone. And if all that I said, doesn't convince someone, then at least please, don't take me as a racist, for I'm not. I think racism is nonsensical, I'm mixed race myself, I don't care what race are people of my acquintance. I also wouldn't mind marrying a woman of different race. In fact, I even like the looks of pretty Black or Asian women better, than the looks of White girls.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 65

the beer

Original post by Oxford Mum

I don't know where to begin with these comments. Gay pride marchers are harming nobody.

I have many gay friends, and they are the most lovely, inoffensive (I would even go so far as to say peaceful) people I have ever met. They are always delighted to meet me, and never make me feel uncomfortable because I am straight. They never, ever flaunt their sexuality in front of me.

At the gay pride march where I live, there was no negativity, only love. There were not just individual people dressed up and draping themselves in the rainbow flag, but whole groups of friends, even school groups. This is the future, where people can be more accepting, open minded and caring.