For a standard user is it fair to say Macs are pointless?
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Original post by hockham jaynsaw
Indeed they do!
Indeed they do!
Tbh, that's personal preference. You can also download themes, add docks etc.. I made Ubuntu look pretty good back in the day!
Original post by Bill_Gates
can you afford a mac?
on that salary i would save tbh. Poor decisions again eh
on that salary i would save tbh. Poor decisions again eh
I don't think you should get a mac just cos you can afford one... Business laptops tend to cost even more than Macs! Though they do drop in value a hell of a lot quicker. I recently bought this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391128681344
Dead cheap at £211
After upgrades, it'd be say £322
3 years ago, that would have cost say...£1500. Apple products however certainly hold their value.Used business laptops ftw!
And of course, the Panasonic toughbooks cost even more!
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by The_Internet
I'd be interested to know what quality of life benefits there are with Macs? I'll tell you something. I do admire the OS, and I do wish that Windows was ore Unix based from the very start! And sure you can get hackingtosh's, but there's always slight niggles with them compared to using real Apple stuff
For me the big benefits are;
*The OS. This is completely subjective (and I'm sure Vlad will be at the complete opposite end of the spectrum to me on this
), but I much prefer the way OS X handles day to day tasks. Not to mention I have a deep-seated dislike for post-W7 Windows, W10 looks promising but I really do not like the direction they went with W8 and everything since then has felt more like damage control for that mess and it's only just starting to recover. Even if they managed to restore it to the heyday of W7, I still prefer using OS X over that.*The trackpads are best in class, easily the nicest to use of any premium laptop brand. Coupled with the extensive and well implemented gestures baked into OS X it makes Macs much more pleasant to use than Windows for me, and given that it's one of the primary ways of actually interacting with the laptop I put a fair amount of emphasis on that. Of course if someone chose to use a mouse it makes it a moot point, but I personally enjoy using the trackpads in Apple laptops.
*You can bet your life that battery life is going to be consistently excellent. Windows brands are certainly improving on this front, but the number of laptops that can consistently achieve double digit battery life while powering a priperly clocked i5-or-higher CPU are still very thin on the ground. So far, using my laptop for casual tasks like web browsing, watching video and playing Hearthstone, I've had three days out of three where the battery has lasted 12 hours. This is my current estimate coming straight off an overnight charge, I almost wish I wasn't going to work just to see how accurate that figure ends up being
Spoiler
It's a combination of things really. The other things I like about the MacBook pro like the superb screen and excellent build quality can be found on plenty of other premium laptops out these, but it's the combination of factors that make Macs the laptops I personally enjoy using the most. I'm not going to make the argument that they're not overly expensive (although if you factor in specs, display quality, build quality and battery life, the price of most high end Windows laptops starts approaching the price of their equivalent MacBook), but I'm a responsible adult with the disposable income that can afford to spend extra to get something I'll enjoy using more
(now to batten down the hatches and await the wrath of Vlad
)Original post by vela1
If you get a mac, you get the opportunity to be the ultimate douche and go to Starbucks to pretend you're writing a novel.
That's just the stereotype, we're actually all writing screenplays
(edited 8 years ago)
OK fair enough
Gotta give you the OS one. I just can't justify spending the money on Apple hardware JUST to use OS X. This being said, there are some really good linux distros out there that are GUI based, but most programs are made to run (at least initially) on Windows/Mac and MS Office won't run in linux (The opensource packages really don't compare)
I quite like W8, but I find that MS tend to have one good OS, one bad OS, one good, one bad et... (Though after Windows 10, there'll be no more new OS's - just updates) Windows 7 was "damage control" for Vista too if you think about it.
Touchpad. Hmm..Maybe. Business laptops tend to have pretty good touchpads too! (But they do cost more). Personally for me what I do intend to do, is use my laptop like a PC, with the battery taken out. SUre, I could just get say...an Intel NUC PC and use that, but I don't want to buy something twice ie: I'd like to still be able to move about with my PC if needs be, hence using it essentially as a desktop-y device, and a desktop-y experience (Just need to buy another monitor, keyboard and a mouse I guess)
I'll certainly give you that Macbooks have gone down in price (or perhaps Windows laptops have got more expensive??) Any way, it's one or the other. Though Macbooks do hold their value. High end laptops - not so. Like the laptop I bought (link above) think that was...£1500 3 years ago! Maybe it's lost that much value BECAUSE it's a business laptop (Considering that my lower end consumer laptop is actually worth about the same price as I paid for the 8470p!) ie: there's not as much of a demand for the elitebooks from consumers.
Battery...maybe... Though tbh, Lenovo is pretty good in this area atm. - At least with their thinkpads. I wonder how the "ideapad" market will do for them in terms of reputation... Then again, HP consumer products aren't the greatest, but their business stuff is really good! So maybe that's what we'll see of Lenovo too
I wasn't seeking to antagonise btw. I was genuinely wondering what quality of life benefits there are, because Im prepared to pay more for "quality of life" - it's just that the things you listed don't bother me much, aside from say battery life and build quality.
Personally for me, I want the business laptops for these reasons:^ Some of that stuff goes out of the window, if SSD's go down in price as fast as they're going and we end up with only having one single drive in a laptop, and we lose the DVD drive (instead of say an mSATA or M.2 card, as well as a traditional hard drive), which means buying a laptop from PC Specialist instead.
Gotta give you the OS one. I just can't justify spending the money on Apple hardware JUST to use OS X. This being said, there are some really good linux distros out there that are GUI based, but most programs are made to run (at least initially) on Windows/Mac and MS Office won't run in linux (The opensource packages really don't compare)
I quite like W8, but I find that MS tend to have one good OS, one bad OS, one good, one bad et... (Though after Windows 10, there'll be no more new OS's - just updates) Windows 7 was "damage control" for Vista too if you think about it.
Touchpad. Hmm..Maybe. Business laptops tend to have pretty good touchpads too! (But they do cost more). Personally for me what I do intend to do, is use my laptop like a PC, with the battery taken out. SUre, I could just get say...an Intel NUC PC and use that, but I don't want to buy something twice ie: I'd like to still be able to move about with my PC if needs be, hence using it essentially as a desktop-y device, and a desktop-y experience (Just need to buy another monitor, keyboard and a mouse I guess)
I'll certainly give you that Macbooks have gone down in price (or perhaps Windows laptops have got more expensive??) Any way, it's one or the other. Though Macbooks do hold their value. High end laptops - not so. Like the laptop I bought (link above) think that was...£1500 3 years ago! Maybe it's lost that much value BECAUSE it's a business laptop (Considering that my lower end consumer laptop is actually worth about the same price as I paid for the 8470p!) ie: there's not as much of a demand for the elitebooks from consumers.
Battery...maybe... Though tbh, Lenovo is pretty good in this area atm. - At least with their thinkpads. I wonder how the "ideapad" market will do for them in terms of reputation... Then again, HP consumer products aren't the greatest, but their business stuff is really good! So maybe that's what we'll see of Lenovo too
I wasn't seeking to antagonise btw. I was genuinely wondering what quality of life benefits there are, because Im prepared to pay more for "quality of life" - it's just that the things you listed don't bother me much, aside from say battery life and build quality.
Personally for me, I want the business laptops for these reasons:
•
Easy to open
•
Easy to upgrade as a result
•
Build quality is really good
•
Many, many, many I/O ports
•
Trackpads are pretty good. Not sure how they compare to the Macs, but they are "all glass" - at least the one I bought.
•
I want to be able to use programs like say...GNS3 and VMWare workstation (Together), which can be resource intensive!
•
I want to have easy access to well...almost every thing - it allows me to upgrade at ease (A "quality of life thing" for me), and allows meto just open one button and air it all out for servicing once/year
•
Another "quality of life" thing for me, is having two drives - so I can use Acronis to restore the full image of my program files/settings, and the OS with ease. Think Macbooks only have one drive and no DVD drive either, so you can't just bang in another SSD or hard drive!
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by The_Internet
I wasn't seeking to antagonise btw. I was genuinely wondering what quality of life benefits there are, because Im prepared to pay more for "quality of life" - it's just that the things you listed don't bother me much, aside from say battery life and build quality.
I know
when you've modded Tech for three years you can quickly tell when people are trying to start Mac/PC debate tensions OK fair enough
Gotta give you the OS one. I just can't justify spending the money on Apple hardware JUST to use OS X. This being said, there are some really good linux distros out there that are GUI based, but most programs are made to run (at least initially) on Windows/Mac and MS Office won't run in linux (The opensource packages really don't compare)
Gotta give you the OS one. I just can't justify spending the money on Apple hardware JUST to use OS X. This being said, there are some really good linux distros out there that are GUI based, but most programs are made to run (at least initially) on Windows/Mac and MS Office won't run in linux (The opensource packages really don't compare)
Yeah I've dabbled with a couple of the more "mainstream" distress in the past, but it's never really stuck. Program compatibility is the big kicker as you've said, my needs are basic but I like knowing I've got the flexibility to install or try the vast majority of non-gaming software should I ever want to or if my usage needs change.
I quite like W8, but I find that MS tend to have one good OS, one bad OS, one good, one bad et... (Though after Windows 10, there'll be no more new OS's - just updates) Windows 7 was "damage control" for Vista too if you think about it.
I've hated every moment I've been subjected to W8, it just feels horribly unintuitive and doing lots of basic stuff seems really contrived compared to W7. 8.1 improved things but it still feels like a touchscreen-first OS.
Touchpad. Hmm..Maybe. Business laptops tend to have pretty good touchpads too! (But they do cost more). Personally for me what I do intend to do, is use my laptop like a PC, with the battery taken out. SUre, I could just get say...an Intel NUC PC and use that, but I don't want to buy something twice ie: I'd like to still be able to move about with my PC if needs be, hence using it essentially as a desktop-y device, and a desktop-y experience (Just need to buy another monitor, keyboard and a mouse I guess)
Yeah the trackpads on business machines which focus of ease of use for long periods of time are better than the standard fare of the Windows PC market, but I'm still yet to try one which can match the usage experience of the ones in Apple laptops.
I'll certainly give you that Macbooks have gone down in price (or perhaps Windows laptops have got more expensive??)
It's a mix of both; Mac prices semi-regularly dip by $100 or so each time a revised generation of products are released (especially after the first generation, every time Apple come out with a radical new laptop line like the original MacBook Air or 2015 MacBook the initial pricing is insane before becoming more reasonable from gen 2 onwards), while at the same time the "premium" notebook market has flourished on the Windows front since the start of the 2010s when Apple started gaining ground, with manufacturers starting to make more and more high-value laptops that ended up being priced very similarly to Apple's (whether that's because it's covering manufacturing costs or they just enjoy having equally high profit margins, I couldn't say).
Any way, it's one or the other. Though Macbooks do hold their value. High end laptops - not so. Like the laptop I bought (link above) think that was...£1500 3 years ago! Maybe it's lost that much value BECAUSE it's a business laptop (Considering that my lower end consumer laptop is actually worth about the same price as I paid for the 8470p!) ie: there's not as much of a demand for the elitebooks from consumers.
Yeah Apple laptops do retain value better for whatever reason, I think it's a combination of being a recognisable and desirable brand and their reputation for longevity in a world where most basic consumers experience computer slowdown after a few years because they clog their laptops with who-knows what. The two Macs I've owned in the past have both sold for 60%+ of their value two years after buying them, and while I don't buy my stuff with the intent of selling it, it's nice to know I can generally bet on being about to recoup a decent chunk of cash if I ever decide too!
Battery...maybe... Though tbh, Lenovo is pretty good in this area atm. - At least with their thinkpads. I wonder how the "ideapad" market will do for them in terms of reputation... Then again, HP consumer products aren't the greatest, but their business stuff is really good! So maybe that's what we'll see of Lenovo too
The Thinkpad line are top notch, if I was to ever buy a Windows machine (that I didn't plan on gaming on) it would be from there
Personally for me, I want the business laptops for these reasons:^ Some of that stuff goes out of the window, if SSD's go down in price as fast as they're going and we end up with only having one single drive in a laptop, and we lose the DVD drive (instead of say an mSATA or M.2 card, as well as a traditional hard drive), which means buying a laptop from PC Specialist instead.
•
Easy to open
•
Easy to upgrade as a result
•
Build quality is really good
•
Many, many, many I/O ports
•
Trackpads are pretty good. Not sure how they compare to the Macs, but they are "all glass" - at least the one I bought.
•
I want to be able to use programs like say...GNS3 and VMWare workstation (Together), which can be resource intensive!
•
I want to have easy access to well...almost every thing - it allows me to upgrade at ease (A "quality of life thing" for me), and allows meto just open one button and air it all out for servicing once/year
•
Another "quality of life" thing for me, is having two drives - so I can use Acronis to restore the full image of my program files/settings, and the OS with ease. Think Macbooks only have one drive and no DVD drive either, so you can't just bang in another SSD or hard drive!
Yeah it's always a case of balancing what you need and finding the best solution! Expandability and repairability are great for some people but others prioritise the form factor you can only achieve by relying on proprietary or soldered components, all day battery life is great for some people but it puts a limit on how power hungry your internals can be which is unacceptable for others, and so on. It's all about compromise
One thing I have no sympathy for is people who blindly buy a laptop then complain about it because they've bought the wrong thing for their needs, like people who complain about the terrible graphics in their MacBook Air or don't like their gaming laptop's fans being noisy when they try playing Crysis 3 on max settings (edited 8 years ago)
Tbf, for the network-y stuff, developers often make linux versions, considering that linux rules the networking world! It's only really MS who don't play ball, but then there's other programs I use that aren't available on linux - print drivers are terrible on linux (From experience) In WIndows 7, I found that it was actually faster than any linux distro I used, despite using more resources, and it gives you better battery life
Fair enough. The enterprise version of W8.1 is a bit different to that. Course you can get third party modifications for the start menu, but the enterprise version integrates that option in to Windows itself
Tbh, with ya, think what I wanna do is buy one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360902696471
Connect another monitor up (and my TV if quality is good. I can't remember) - I dont need it for gaming so fast response times aren't an issue!
Get a keyboard/mouse. Attach it to the docking station. - take the battery OUT of the laptop, if running on AC. When I need to take the laptop away, just take the laptop off the docking station. No wires to move! No mess!
Hmm that's true. They are definitely trying to compete with Apple here with their stuff, though if say Apple allowed me to easily access the underside, dock the laptop etc... that'd be good!
Possibly yeah. I imagine most consumers have heard of "Apple Macbook" and "HP Pavillion" but how many have heard of "HP Elitebook" (Despite the elitebooks being HP's top of the line products?) It is odd how my laptop would recoup the same amount(ish) as how much I paid for the elitebook! Hmmm, I think SSD's are making a difference in this area tbh, and tbh, tha's one reason why I'd pop Acronis on the machine - because I can then just restore at ease! Tbh, think Im going for the "used business market" because well they're used by professionals, they've presumably been cared for, and they drop in value so fast, From £1500 to £200-£250 in three year is massive!
I thought about getting that at first, and then I compared the Thinkpads to say the HPs and the Dells. Think I went for HP in the end, because it was the middle ground. They look a hell of a lot nicer than the Thinkpads and the Dells, and they were pretty good value for money. Think though it was only maybe £30 less for a Dell! And £30 more for a Thinkpad!
That's true. Tbh, I've realised that yknow what? I need two monitors. I wan that desktop-y experience without having to shell out twice (and without the associated costs with running a desktop over a laptop) Tbh, for battery flow, for cooling, for a low noise laptop (Though most are quiet any way), I've bought me some IC diamond 7, so I can apply that over the CPU and GPU. On a desktop, perhaps that wouldn't make a difference, but in a laptop, heat is your biggest enemy. If the CPU gets hot, then nearby components get hot, which makes the fan work harder, which causes more strain on the laptop, and decreases your battery life. So it makes sense to put some premium paste on it for that!
The HP should last me tbh. Tbh, this laptop is also pretty good - aside from the fact that I'd have to strip the entire laptop apart, just to install RAM...
Most people don't really want easy access tbf.Business laptops allow that, because the IT departments like that ie: if they need to upgrade one thing,or if something breaks. It's less risk for a company if every thing is easily accessible too ie: even professionals might not be able to put a laptop together again, and it's well..time. Time is money - The IT department could be doing other more profitable things, and you're also paying someone however much you're paying them. That all adds up
Fair enough. The enterprise version of W8.1 is a bit different to that. Course you can get third party modifications for the start menu, but the enterprise version integrates that option in to Windows itself
Tbh, with ya, think what I wanna do is buy one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360902696471
Connect another monitor up (and my TV if quality is good. I can't remember) - I dont need it for gaming so fast response times aren't an issue!
Get a keyboard/mouse. Attach it to the docking station. - take the battery OUT of the laptop, if running on AC. When I need to take the laptop away, just take the laptop off the docking station. No wires to move! No mess!
Hmm that's true. They are definitely trying to compete with Apple here with their stuff, though if say Apple allowed me to easily access the underside, dock the laptop etc... that'd be good!
Possibly yeah. I imagine most consumers have heard of "Apple Macbook" and "HP Pavillion" but how many have heard of "HP Elitebook" (Despite the elitebooks being HP's top of the line products?) It is odd how my laptop would recoup the same amount(ish) as how much I paid for the elitebook! Hmmm, I think SSD's are making a difference in this area tbh, and tbh, tha's one reason why I'd pop Acronis on the machine - because I can then just restore at ease! Tbh, think Im going for the "used business market" because well they're used by professionals, they've presumably been cared for, and they drop in value so fast, From £1500 to £200-£250 in three year is massive!
I thought about getting that at first, and then I compared the Thinkpads to say the HPs and the Dells. Think I went for HP in the end, because it was the middle ground. They look a hell of a lot nicer than the Thinkpads and the Dells, and they were pretty good value for money. Think though it was only maybe £30 less for a Dell! And £30 more for a Thinkpad!
That's true. Tbh, I've realised that yknow what? I need two monitors. I wan that desktop-y experience without having to shell out twice (and without the associated costs with running a desktop over a laptop) Tbh, for battery flow, for cooling, for a low noise laptop (Though most are quiet any way), I've bought me some IC diamond 7, so I can apply that over the CPU and GPU. On a desktop, perhaps that wouldn't make a difference, but in a laptop, heat is your biggest enemy. If the CPU gets hot, then nearby components get hot, which makes the fan work harder, which causes more strain on the laptop, and decreases your battery life. So it makes sense to put some premium paste on it for that!
The HP should last me tbh. Tbh, this laptop is also pretty good - aside from the fact that I'd have to strip the entire laptop apart, just to install RAM...
Most people don't really want easy access tbf.Business laptops allow that, because the IT departments like that ie: if they need to upgrade one thing,or if something breaks. It's less risk for a company if every thing is easily accessible too ie: even professionals might not be able to put a laptop together again, and it's well..time. Time is money - The IT department could be doing other more profitable things, and you're also paying someone however much you're paying them. That all adds up
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by pjm600
yes
Beat me to it; of course they are!
It depends really. Mac laptops are really nice in terms of their build and I do like OS X but for the average run of the mill person these days, I think they're better served by low power tablets. Most bog standard people just use their laptops for email, word processing, IM and media consumption so they're better served by a tablet. PC users such as myself are more suited to full proper OS's including Windows, many Linux distros and OS X. Windows is perfectly fine to use. You don't necessarily need a Mac. Though the advantage of a Mac is you can easily dual boot into Windows so there's that.
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