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Should the 'Foundation' option in GCSEs be withdrawn, particularly for core subjects? watch

  • View Poll Results: Do you think everyone should do the Higher Tier?
    Yes, they're getting a pass with minimal effort
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    (Original post by funky2722)
    Haha, oh dear, Prussia comes online to declare his grades. I wonder why? Bullying? Disability? Low self-esteem. Go on, keep flaunting your worth; it's entertaining how you value your not-so-impressive grades so highly, you think 11*s is an achievement? Grow up! Why don't you get 12? Maybe 13? Is it because you're incapable; perhaps you need help? I heard you are borderline A* in maths? Awww it's cute to see you try. I'm sure there's some year 10s that can help you out. I can already picture you as a 5 foot tall geek, who in reality would stand no chance in a public situation. Good bye and good luck. Youll need it with that attitude of yours.
    I'm actually 6 foot 3. I'm guessing your grades are awful then if you feel the need to insult me. I've never criticised anyone's grades so you can stfu tbh.
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    If you ask most GCSE students we'll all say that it's easier to get a C in higher than foundation so I agree, everyone should do higher but for those who really are struggling.... This is their only way in.

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    (Original post by funky2722)
    Technically, this is harrassment. Lol, you're so childish, you have no comeback that's of sustantial worth. Aha, you probably look like shrek with you're 6 ft 3 stature (oh wait, you probably lied about that too.) And why would i get blocked, when I try to help people out. Rather, you suffer from a mental disability; perhaps get it checked out?? Bye for now Salut!
    Just saying I could take you out with one blow mate. Go f**k yourself. Try the NHS mental asylum.
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    Yes. Of course the questions are much easier, but when you consider the number of marks required for each grade, the marks/percentage needed for a C could be equivalent to that of an A/B on a higher paper - looking at marks alone.

    Whereas at GCSE higher the marks needed for a C are really quite low (compared to A level!). The sort of people entered for foundation probably don't like exams at the best of times, so despite the questions being easier, many probably just 'switch off', don't bother and ultimately don't scrape together the high number of marks required for a C, instead getting lower, which is no use and they have to resit in college etc, wasting everybody's time. It'd be better to put the effort into learning slightly harder content to get a C in higher, this probably involves both teachers and pupils alike. In fact I remember in maths some textbooks differentiated certain questions to different grades so in theory those aiming for a C could just master all the C/B level questions and miss out the A questions and possibly get a C?

    For example in Edexcel maths last year:
    Higher: 65/200 for a C
    Found: 139/200 for a C.
    Doing higher seems to be 'better value' for marks.
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    (Original post by BirdIsWord)
    Definitely. It's a joke how easy foundation papers are. The foundation maths papers for example are literally year 7 level maths.
    Some people develop later/interests change and some people dont see the importance of education in year 10-11 so put in no effort

    Without the foundation year maths paper I wouldnt be where I am today so its important for some people
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    (Original post by bj1)
    Yes. Of course the questions are much easier, but when you consider the number of marks required for each grade, the marks/percentage needed for a C could be equivalent to that of an A/B on a higher paper - looking at marks alone.

    Whereas at GCSE higher the marks needed for a C are really quite low (compared to A level!). The sort of people entered for foundation probably don't like exams at the best of times, so despite the questions being easier, many probably just 'switch off', don't bother and ultimately don't scrape together the high number of marks required for a C, instead getting lower, which is no use and they have to resit in college etc, wasting everybody's time. It'd be better to put the effort into learning slightly harder content to get a C in higher, this probably involves both teachers and pupils alike. In fact I remember in maths some textbooks differentiated certain questions to different grades so in theory those aiming for a C could just master all the C/B level questions and miss out the A questions and possibly get a C?

    For example in Edexcel maths last year:
    Higher: 65/200 for a C
    Found: 139/200 for a C.
    Doing higher seems to be 'better value' for marks.
    As a current GCSE student I completely understand, foundation is not taken seriously by students and in maths this case is very relevant but in subjects like science where half of the students in my school do foundation, all they care about is passing the subject and they believe foundation is good for them and are confident in passing... We can't deny them the opportunity to pass their exams.

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    (Original post by funky2722)
    I've never done foundation, but I understand, some people don't care and even if they are lazy, why should we care? People are entitled to their own lives.
    Yes some dont care etc but a fair few will change their mindset as they mature so having a D/getting the opportunity to get a C without feeling drowned by B+ grade content is important as they need those grades for some college courses etc (I was one of these people, going for very lazy to very hard working)

    Without the foundation paper I would of gotten a U originally in my GCSE maths (instead of a D which I then gave me some confidence to retake and get a C) which would of killed my interest in maths and probably wouldnt be going into 2nd year theoretical physics at a russell group with a first in all the maths modules now

    So thanks to the foundation papers I will in 2 years hopefully be going to do a phd in an area of theoretical physics or geometry if I continue my current grades
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    (Original post by Jawsomesauce35)
    As a current GCSE student I completely understand, foundation is not taken seriously by students and in maths this case is very relevant but in subjects like science where half of the students in my school do foundation, all they care about is passing the subject and they believe foundation is good for them and are confident in passing... We can't deny them the opportunity to pass their exams.

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    I think it depends on the subject, for maths and english higher should be considered for most/all, but for science and arguably the 'academic' option subjects e.g. geography, history, languages, it may be wise to retain foundation for some. I can't comment on the difficulty of 'GCSE Science' since I did triple sciences but I know many who did higher in all subjects and were in middle sets for science but did foundation for certain units, so I understand.

    I agree with setting students by ability, however I think the lowest could've been mixed with the 'middle' attainers. For the core subjects and science there was Set 1 (for science we did triple science) then sets 2-5 all did higher, with set 5 being 'borderline'. Then there was set 6,7,8 which was the problem, who all did foundation. I'm not sure what their (english/maths) classes were like, but if they were surrounded by similar abilities/behaviour I can't imagine there being much motivation and possibly poor behaviour and so poor progress. They could be mixed with the 'middle' students which could help.
    Ideally for English/maths I would have a set 1/2 to stretch the highest ability to A*s, then mix sets 3-7 who need to pass, and a much smaller foundation group for those who may need special support.
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    Well, tbf I sat the foundation paper (not because I think I'm incapable) but rather because i had a shadow of doubt that I'll fail. The foundation paper made me feel more confident and comfortable with my ability in mathematics. I'm predicted to get 1 A*, 3 As, 1 B and 3 Cs. I'm quite happy with these grades and they can get me to my aspirations and goals. In my overall opinion, i do not thing that the foundation paper is a bad idea at all, it gives versatility to other candidates who do not excel in this segment of education. It's all good and dandy saying a person is quote on quote "retarded", but they may excel in another subject that another may not.
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    (Original post by bj1)
    I think it depends on the subject, for maths and english higher should be considered for most/all, but for science and arguably the 'academic' option subjects e.g. geography, history, languages, it may be wise to retain foundation for some. I can't comment on the difficulty of 'GCSE Science' since I did triple sciences but I know many who did higher in all subjects and were in middle sets for science but did foundation for certain units, so I understand.

    I agree with setting students by ability, however I think the lowest could've been mixed with the 'middle' attainers. For the core subjects and science there was Set 1 (for science we did triple science) then sets 2-5 all did higher, with set 5 being 'borderline'. Then there was set 6,7,8 which was the problem, who all did foundation. I'm not sure what their (english/maths) classes were like, but if they were surrounded by similar abilities/behaviour I can't imagine there being much motivation and possibly poor behaviour and so poor progress. They could be mixed with the 'middle' students which could help.
    Ideally for English/maths I would have a set 1/2 to stretch the highest ability to A*s, then mix sets 3-7 who need to pass, and a much smaller foundation group for those who may need special support.
    In some cases, teachers are the ones that decide which paper the student does for their exams so in that case, students are discouraged to do great because they've been put down by their teachers leading them to believe that they can't do well. This could be a reason to get rid of foundation papers so all students have a chance to exceed their expectations

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    Yes originally we was sitting a higher paper as we was told it was easier to get a c but then got changed to foundation. Not really sure whether this will have helped grades or not, we will see !


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    (Original post by funky2722)
    What about greg? And I don't have a problem with you, I just want you to see how if I am making you feel annoyed, you're doing the same to others. If you want to joke don't be obnoxious please. I'm sure you're incredibly talented, but you don't need to rub it in people's faces. I'm predicted slghtly higher grades, but I don't want to rub it in your face. So please just stop.
    Of course you're predicted higher grades...
    The fact that you won't share them indicates you're just jealous and I doubt you are predicted higher.
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    Foundation is easier but that's made up for in the grade boundaries. For example in Chemistry on higher you only need 1/3 marks to get a C where as on foundation you need 2/3 sometimes more. Yes the questions may be easier but for them they aren't they struggle like we struggle on higher.
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    (Original post by xEmilyxx)
    Foundation shouldn't be scrapped.
    Most of you on this post seem to be the sorta C and higher achievers, so of course, all of you should be entered for higher tiers to get your best possible grade. I have friends who could be getting Bs, but are instead entered for foundation which is of course, limiting them. But this issue should be taken directly to your teacher and if you feel that strongly you should do higher, then stop sitting on your backsides complaining and get parents to complain to school and make some actual progress.

    Foundation is designed for pupils who are just looking to pass, and some of the skills that higher papers ask you are just too much out of the reach of these sorts of pupils, even though the grade boundaries are lower and seem easy to achieve. Take science AQA for example, the higher papers require you to apply knowledge, whilst foundation just needs you to recall information. If you're hoping to go into an apprenticeship or a BTEC unrelated to science, then all you want is a pass right. So the foundation papers give the opportunity to get a pass on memory and revision skills. It's much better than putting a pupil of a low ability through the strains that everyone else can find quite easy on the higher paper. Besides, higher papers are designed to get you Bs and As and A*s, if you're only aiming for a C I don't think there's even much point, especially if you struggle with it.

    Same with maths and English. If you're one of those who likes to complain about how trigonometry is irrelevant for your future compared to simple numeracy skills, then foundation maths is designed for those pupils who just want to get a C to show they have some mathematical ability that could help them in their future jobs. The AQA English language papers ask you to use more basic skills, like less language analysis. And to be honest, not all jobs need you show you can analyse language. So, foundation is also relevant for this subject.

    I'm guaranteed a full set of Bs and higher at GCSE, but In French I was entered for Higher reading and listening foundation. I'll still get a B though, because my coursework is an A. But I chose foundation in this case because I struggled that much with the quicker speaking, and as I'm not taking French to A Level I don't really need to give myself an ego boost and do higher. I just want my B.

    Maybe if you all actually thought into the purpose of foundation, you'll get it. It's meant to be easier for a reason. But if you find it that easy, go do higher and get a B or A or something.
    I agree with you to an extent. I do think certain subjects need a foundation paper i.e. the Core subjects, but the options do not need a foundation paper. If somebody is going to only get a C in maths then chances are they want to take a vocational course such as hairdressing, plumbing, public services etc. at Level 3 BTEC, so maybe a Level 2 BTEC will suit them better than doing GCSE options at foundation level?
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    (Original post by Lalarw)
    I am the retard. Yet, I am in higher for everything, you're the one that is probably doing a btec level health and social care course.
    Don't be so rude you ignorant prick
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    (Original post by CrazyFool229)
    I agree with you to an extent. I do think certain subjects need a foundation paper i.e. the Core subjects, but the options do not need a foundation paper. If somebody is going to only get a C in maths then chances are they want to take a vocational course such as hairdressing, plumbing, public services etc. at Level 3 BTEC, so maybe a Level 2 BTEC will suit them better than doing GCSE options at foundation level?
    That definitely wasnt true for my year 11 cohort, alot of us went to do A-levels and then a fair few of those are now at uni
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    (Original post by madmadmax321)
    That definitely wasnt true for my year 11 cohort, alot of us went to do A-levels and then a fair few of those are now at uni
    That's great.

    What are they studying?
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    (Original post by CrazyFool229)
    That's great.

    What are they studying?
    I study theoretical physics, the others do mech eng, chem eng, chemistry, psychology (x2), straight physics, history and another humantities subject (think it was geography)

    Also 6 of these (including myself) are at russell groups (not top 5, though I did have an offer from a top 5)
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    (Original post by madmadmax321)
    I study theoretical physics, the others do mech eng, chem eng, chemistry, psychology (x2), straight physics, history and another humantities subject (think it was geography)

    Also 6 of these (including myself) are at russell groups (not top 5, though I did have an offer from a top 5)
    Nice!
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    (Original post by Lalarw)
    Must have not put enough effort in that, what a shame.
    Through out the year my teachers either left or had really long 'sick leave'. Because of this my whole class did foundation and we did not get to Additional science and English lit because there was not enough time to revise for them.
 
 
 
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