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Cracking bit of commentary from Maajid Nawaz on the need for reform in Islam Watch

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    (Original post by viddy9)
    This just proves my point: you're impatient; you're overreacting; and you're not thinking straight because you're looking at this as a massive problem in isolation.

    My point about the media was that you're seeing these attacks on the media and thinking that they're a huge problem that needs to be dealt with in the quickest way possible, however stupid that way may be. Terrorist attacks happen. Plane crashes happen. People can overreact to both, but if you were really concerned about preventing deaths, you'd spend much more time making threads about road safety and why people should have adhesive mats placed in their bathtubs.

    We've been kind of swimming against the tide when, as I said, our policies have directly led to more terrorism. That's why I said you've got to look at everything we've done in the Middle East in the past few decades as having been the wrong way to go about things. Our wars in the Middle East, as numerous terrorism experts have found, directly led to the rise of ISIS and further radicalisation.

    Robert Pape, a prominent political scientist at the University of Chicago, analysed every known case of suicide terrorism between 1980 and 2003, concluding: “there is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, or any one of the world's religions... Rather, what nearly all suicide terrorist attacks have in common is a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory that the terrorists consider to be their homeland”.

    He later expanded on this work by looking at all of the suicide terrorist attacks between 2004 and 2009. He found that “overall, foreign military occupation accounts for 98.5% -- and the deployment of American combat forces for 92% -- of all the 1,833 suicide terrorist attacks around the world in the past six years.” Tellingly, between 1980 and 2003, less than 15% of suicide terrorist attacks were aimed at the United States and its interests; between 2004 and 2009, after the invasion and occupation of Iraq and the United States' continuedpresence in Afghanistan, 92% of suicide terrorist attacks were aimed at the United States.

    So, let's address the real causes of terrorism. Let's listen to what the experts actually have to say. For instance, in 2008, MI5's behavioural science unit concluded that “far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes”. MI5 also concluded that a well-established religious identity may protect against radicalisation. In other words, let's do what I've been saying: work with Muslim communities.



    You now need a History 101 class, but let's not get into that. Presumably, though, you're up for giving the land "belonging" to the United States back to the Native Americans? Great!

    Overall, you need to start making threads about car safety, and fast. Thousands die every year due to car accidents, far more per year than those who die due to terror attacks in the United States! My point about the media is this: you and people like you falling prey to the availability heuristic - terror attacks are fresh in your mind because they're talked about almost daily in the media, so you're now, like good little sheep, rushing to support whatever demagogue (Trump) who claims he can solve the problem instantly, just like that! Funnily enough, as per usual when the talking points of people like you are refuted, you didn't reply to any of my own policy suggestions; instead, you continue to spout the same vacuous nonsense which others have pointed out will not work.
    Terrorism is a massive problem.

    Terrorism is preventable with the correct policies. People are always going to crash their cars to some degree. I'm not even going to comment on people falling and dying in the bathtub or try and explain why that isn't the same as terrorism.

    It isn't my war, I never supported it and it is likely the victims in Orlando did either, so why did they deserve to pay the price for government actions?

    I wonder how likely occupation would be if these countries weren't rife with human rights abuses. I will look at this study.

    The Native Americans weren't driven out, they were already at war with each other. All the British did was pick a side and give them tools to do the job themselves. They unfortunately died from diseases brought over for the most part. But if the Native Americans can afford to buy out all of the assets then sure, I'm up for returning their land.
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    I've debated Maajid Nawaz. My realtalk hit him like a ton of bricks and he didn't have any answers so he just stopped responding. Sad guy :sad:

    He cannot get around the fact there is but 'one true interpretation' of Islam in the Koran/opinion of 75% of Muslims, that many of these people demonstrate fervent, bordering on rabid, adherence to said doctrine, and that this is retrograde/contrary to British norms, values, and way of life
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    He cannot get around the fact there is but 'one true interpretation' of Islam in the Koran/opinion of 75% of Muslims
    Whilst this "75%" might agree that there is only true interpretation, they often can't agree on what this interpretation is and end up resorting to takfiring each other. Anyway, I assume this 75% only refers to Muslims alive now and not 75% of all Muslims to have ever lived. This Salafi influenced Islam is only a recent innovation which seeks to do away with the over 1000 years of Islamic tradition, brandishing it as bidah. So Salafi Islam only really represents Islam in its present stage and isn't necessarily reflective of Islam throughout the centuries.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Whilst this "75%" might agree that there is only true interpretation, they often can't agree on what this interpretation is and end up resorting to takfiring each other. Anyway, I assume this 75% only refers to Muslims alive now and not 75% of all Muslims to have ever lived. This Salafi influenced Islam is only a recent innovation which seeks to do away with the over 1000 years of Islamic tradition, brandishing it as bidah. So Salafi Islam only really represents Islam in its present stage and isn't necessarily reflective of Islam throughout the centuries
    All well and good, but the point remains, and Islam/'true Muslims' remain inherently problematic and ill-suited to 'modern' Western culture and societies. There's no getting away from that fact, and the longer we try to deny/ignore it, the more people will suffer (primarily Muslims)
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Terrorism is a massive problem.

    Terrorism is preventable with the correct policies. People are always going to crash their cars to some degree. I'm not even going to comment on people falling and dying in the bathtub or try and explain why that isn't the same as terrorism.

    It isn't my war, I never supported it and it is likely the victims in Orlando did either, so why did they deserve to pay the price for government actions?

    I wonder how likely occupation would be if these countries weren't rife with human rights abuses. I will look at this study.

    The Native Americans weren't driven out, they were already at war with each other. All the British did was pick a side and give them tools to do the job themselves. They unfortunately died from diseases brought over for the most part. But if the Native Americans can afford to buy out all of the assets then sure, I'm up for returning their land.
    Regarding the part about Native Americans, its nice to see a poster who actually knows how to read and is aware of real history, not the streamlined leftist version, good work!
 
 
 
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