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Should teachers have to get another job before starting teaching?

Thinking about secondary teachers mainly.

So, I think that before teachers do their teaching qualification they should have done at least 3 years of work outside of teaching, preferably linked to the subject they want to teach.

The thing is, teachers who don't have other work will have spent their entire education and entire working lives in a school.

If they did relevant work, I think it would also allow them to teach their subject better. For example, the best maths teacher at my old school had worked in engineering before teaching. He was a lot better teacher in my opinion because he had seen maths "in action" and could relate it to the real world.

Your opinions?

Sophie

Reply 1

Christian_j

17

Good idea.

There are too many people who are just turning to teaching because they are not good enough to do anything else - I know that there are many who do it for different reasons and I *am* generalising, but I have friends that have just gone straight into it who are frankly complete idiots, I wouldn't trust them to teach me how to play poker, never mind educate a child.

Making them get a job for a few years before going to teaching would give experience, I can't see that being a bad thing tbh... university does NOT teach you everything.

Many of the teachers I know are just staying one chapter ahead of the students in the subject, how can that be right?

Reply 2

The_Lonely_Goatherd

20

I kinda agree. Not so much coz I believe they need to do something else but just in terms of if you do a PGCE straight after uni, you start teaching at 22 and there's little age gap between you and some of the students you are teaching.

We walked all over the new Music teacher who joined us in Year 12 coz even though we didn't know his age, we knew he couldn't be much older than us coz he looked younger than us :biggrin:

I think it would build the confidence of new teachers if they weren't straight out of uni+PGCE :yes:

Reply 3

ily_em

17

"Those who can't do, teach"

:p:

Reply 4

paddyman4

14

If there was an abundance of teachers, schools could be picky and, like any other employer, take interesting experience into account.

As it is, there is a shortage of teachers, at least in some subjects. The gain from this proposition is outweighed by the negative effect on children that a greater shortage would cause.

Reply 5

Ice_Queen

17

ily_em

"Those who can't do, teach"

:p:

Dammit, that was my line.

Reply 6

thefish_uk

14

Christian_j

There are too many people who are just turning to teaching because they are not good enough to do anything else - I know that there are many who do it for different reasons and I *am* generalising, but I have friends that have just gone straight into it who are frankly complete idiots, I wouldn't trust them to teach me how to play poker, never mind educate a child.

And just out of interest, did they actually pass the course? My dad is a teacher and also mentors PGCE students and there are a lot of drop-outs - mainly people who went into it for the wrong reasons and thought they had a good idea of the job because they'd sat in a classroom for their teenage years, and that it'd be easy.

Young teachers do sometimes get walked over because of lack of experience and confidence. But older people who've recently started do also, for the same reason. There are also younger teachers who are excellent because they're so used to the latest technological innovations and the kids can really relate to them, being younger. At the school I went to there were examples of all these kinds of teachers.

I don't think this could work in practice because so many people who considered becoming teachers would end up being lost to the career they start in their other job. In fact they're trying the opposite at the moment with the Teach First scheme, hoping that people more carry on as teachers.

Reply 7

Cirsium

19

thefish_uk

Young teachers do sometimes get walked over because of lack of experience and confidence. But older people who've recently started do also, for the same reason.

Not so much though. Kids are pretty canny at picking up on age, but less so on experience, and they let themselves be deceived by half truths. They went far easier on me ("I worked at Mencap for three years, then I TAed in a primary school, then I was a research assistant and now I'm here") than they did on teachers who let themselves be identified as NQTs, even though the NQTs were older than I was. If you can say "oh I did this and that" before you came to the school then they somehow don't figure out that you're new to teaching, or that you're quite young.

Reply 8

timetokill

13

You have to have relevant experience before you apply for your teacher training course to even be considered for an interview let alone get accepted onto the course and the majority of your PGCE is spent in the classroom, why is that not good enough?

The PGCE courses are intense and alot of people who go into it for the wrong reasons or who are not capable drop out, or quit teaching very early on in their career.

If you want to teach, and you want to teach from early on then whats the sense in making someone go off to work in another industry for a few years before being allowed to go and teach? Subject knowledge is essential, but it does not make you a good teacher or mean that you will be a good teacher.

Enthusiasm and drive to teach coupled with good subject knowledge are contributing factors to what makes a good teacher, and youre likely to kill off that enthusiasm by making people jump through unnecessary hoops to do it.

Reply 9

Kaykiie

15

I want to be a Primary School teacher :smile:

Just thought i'd throw that in there :p:

Reply 10

raspberryswirl

10

goodmen

Hi sophie i didnt bother reading what you just said but would you like to go out sometime?

and no, i don't think they should have to get a different job first.

Reply 11

The_Right_Ordinary

ily_em

"Those who can't do, teach"

"Those who can't teach, teach teachers, and those who can't teach teachers, teach PE"

Reply 12

username338343

10

I'm wanting to teach Drama, but I'm wanting to be involved in the Arts in another career before that. One of my big goals in life is to be a teacher, if I push it away by doing things I'm enjoying anyway it'll seem so much sweeter when I get there (in my opinion).

In terms of being a better teacher because of that, I disagree. Already now in Yr 13 I'm planning lessons and teahcing them for an afterschool drama club and all the kids love it and are absolutely brilliant at picking things up. I'm finding it difficult, obviously, because I haven't had proffesionals teach me for ages about how to teach a lesson, but it's brilliant fun when things go well.

Reply 13

ma2k5

14

Christian_j

Good idea.

There are too many people who are just turning to teaching because they are not good enough to do anything else - I know that there are many who do it for different reasons and I *am* generalising, but I have friends that have just gone straight into it who are frankly complete idiots, I wouldn't trust them to teach me how to play poker, never mind educate a child.

Making them get a job for a few years before going to teaching would give experience, I can't see that being a bad thing tbh... university does NOT teach you everything.

Many of the teachers I know are just staying one chapter ahead of the students in the subject, how can that be right?

Good in theory - but with the already lack of teachers at the moment - this could only make the problem worse.

Reply 14

DaveSteed24

9

Smiz

Thinking about secondary teachers mainly.

So, I think that before teachers do their teaching qualification they should have done at least 3 years of work outside of teaching, preferably linked to the subject they want to teach.

The thing is, teachers who don't have other work will have spent their entire education and entire working lives in a school.

If they did relevant work, I think it would also allow them to teach their subject better. For example, the best maths teacher at my old school had worked in engineering before teaching. He was a lot better teacher in my opinion because he had seen maths "in action" and could relate it to the real world.

Your opinions?

Sophie

maybe in subjects like maths and the sciences where this is possible - but how do you see English at work in real life - or history? - i agree that engineering would give a wider knowledge of maths but with the more 'academic' (couldn't think of a better word :s-smilie:

) subjects - hard to see how they'd experience say english - you could work in a publishers i suppose - but this doesn't really give you an understanding of books themselves but rather how a book is put into print - i.e. irrelevant to teaching - and what about history - unless you own a time machine this'd be tricky

and to someone else who said some people teach just coz they can't do anything else - i know that some people would enjoy being part of the most important part of a person's life - i.e. the beginning (can't be bothered to find the exact post again)

Reply 15

AdeelAhmad

7

goodmen

Hi sophie i didnt bother reading what you just said but would you like to go out sometime?

PIMP

Reply 16

Bobifier

13

"I had a teacher who did this and he was good. Therefore, I think all teachers should do it"

There is just so much wrong. If nothing else, it's the kind of thing the government would come up with, and when you see the educational regulations the government comes up with, you really don't want to be associated with them...

Reply 17

x-pri-x

I guess but then my cousin finish with a maths degree, did her pgce in a grammer school in Lincoln and now shes a teacher at a normal High school so shes 22 and about the age difference how you said theres not a big age gap thats sort of true cause she gets alot of idiot boys making comments and once I heard a group of guys talking about her on a bus! lol so thats bad in a way but Id say she has good knowledge of the subject and its not like she don't have a life shes just like everyone else goes clubbing now and then, goes out with guys but then in the class shes very strict and her maths group got 8A* and 10 As whereas the other maths group of the same level got mainly Bs and a couple of As

Reply 18

ArtGoblin

16

I'm not sure many would want to go into teaching if they'd worked in the 'real world' for three years. They could have a secure job and a better income after that time, and it would definitely reduce the amount of people wanting to become teachers. Graduates aren't going to put that much effort in for a job that isn't even that highly paid.

Reply 19

L i b

19

The only teachers at my school who I knew had 'proper jobs' beforehand were all obnoxious. The so-called business education department in particular was staffed entirely by former secretaries, HR officers and other dullards who were essentially bitter that they'd failed at what they were supposed to be teaching us.

Should teachers have to get another job before starting teaching?

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