ST10
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I've had a quick search but thought I'd ask anyway.

A lot of the schools direct places seem to only offer QTS & not a PGCE. I wondered if this would put me at a disadvantage in the future if I only had QTS and not the PGCE?

Thanks for any help!
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claretmad
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(Original post by ST10)
I've had a quick search but thought I'd ask anyway.

A lot of the schools direct places seem to only offer QTS & not a PGCE. I wondered if this would put me at a disadvantage in the future if I only had QTS and not the PGCE?

Thanks for any help!
School-led trainee teachers face career risks arising from the approach that is being taken. The Department for Education (DfE) has promoted and tripled the number of places allocated to School Direct. However, as you rightly say, this route can result in trainee teachers only achieving Qualified Teacher Status (QTS). It is not always being made clear to applicants that some of the school-led training programmes only lead to QTS and not to academic qualifications that are fully portable.

In contrast, teacher training that leads to university qualifications, such as a B.ED or a first degree and then PGCE, as well as QTS, results in teachers achieving qualifications that are recognised not only nationally, but also in other parts of the United Kingdom as well as internationally.

So in a word, yes, you would be disadvantaged in the future by only gaining QTS but the DfE appear to be conveniently forgeting to inform School Direct applicants of this very important fact.
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ST10
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(Original post by claretmad)
School-led trainee teachers face career risks arising from the approach that is being taken. The Department for Education (DfE) has promoted and tripled the number of places allocated to School Direct. However, as you rightly say, this route can result in trainee teachers only achieving Qualified Teacher Status (QTS). It is not always being made clear to applicants that some of the school-led training programmes only lead to QTS and not to academic qualifications that are fully portable.

In contrast, teacher training that leads to university qualifications, such as a B.ED or a first degree and then PGCE, as well as QTS, results in teachers achieving qualifications that are recognised not only nationally, but also in other parts of the United Kingdom as well as internationally.

So in a word, yes, you would be disadvantaged in the future by only gaining QTS but the DfE appear to be conveniently forgeting to inform School Direct applicants of this very important fact.
Oh no this really worries me!
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jeffercake
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(Original post by ST10)
Oh no this really worries me!
Don't let it worry you. It would only really affect you if you wanted to move abroad and teach.
People who do undergraduate teacher training courses only get QTS and (obviously) not the PGCE. They manage to find work!
Good luck.


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disillusion
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This stresses me out! The careers advisor at my school said I could do a physics degree and then go on to get my QTS by working in a school for a year. She never said anything about being disadvantaged!
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claretmad
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(Original post by jeffercake)
Don't let it worry you. It would only really affect you if you wanted to move abroad and teach.
People who do undergraduate teacher training courses only get QTS and (obviously) not the PGCE. They manage to find work!
Good luck.


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There is really no difference as undergraduate or postgraduate teacher training degrees are both academic qualifications offered by universities. My personal feeling is that you will more than likely be better off in the long run if you have university based teacher training qualifications including QTS rather just standalone QTS which is being offered by some school direct scheme participants. Obviously it pays to check before you commit yourself as to what they are offering with school direct as well as the quality of the training being offered. At the end of the day it is a personal choice that only you can make as what suits one person doesn't necessarily suit another.
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jeffercake
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(Original post by claretmad)
There is really no difference as undergraduate or postgraduate teacher training degrees are both academic qualifications offered by universities.
Well, clearly there is! One is post graduate and awards a PGCE. The other is undergraduate and awards just a QTS. Therefore, QTS only is option.

As for the "academic qualification offered by a university", the OP probably already has a degree...





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claretmad
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(Original post by jeffercake)
Well, clearly there is! One is post graduate and awards a PGCE. The other is undergraduate and awards just a QTS. Therefore, QTS only is option.

As for the "academic qualification offered by a university", the OP probably already has a degree...


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So a 4 year undergraduate initial teacher training course only offers QTS? What about the teacher training degree itself? A qualification which is fully portable and accepted wherever you wish to teach.

I fully realise the OP has a degree as it is a requirement of school direct but it won't be in teacher training... It is the teacher training academic qualification part, whether it be ITT undergraduate or a PGCE, which seems to be missing from some school direct schemes.
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bellylaugh
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I'm about to start a School Direct Salaried course in September and there is the option of paying for the PGCE qualification or not. I'm still debating whether it's worth paying for, as I can't see myself wanting to work outside of the UK really...but who knows what might happen in the future? Maybe I'll just stick with the QTS.
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jeffercake
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(Original post by claretmad)
So a 4 year undergraduate initial teacher training course only offers QTS? What about the teacher training degree itself? A qualification which is fully portable and accepted wherever you wish to teach.

I fully realise the OP has a degree as it is a requirement of school direct but it won't be in teacher training... It is the teacher training academic qualification part, whether it be ITT undergraduate or a PGCE, which seems to be missing from some school direct schemes.
So those who do not pass the QTS teaching standards of an undergraduate teaching training course end up with some magical qualifications?! No, they end up with a degree in education. So no, apart from QTS there is no other qualification. If you mean the SKILLS taught, then fair enough. Obviously with a PGCE you will learn the pedagogy and theory of teaching. But that's not what you were saying.


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claretmad
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(Original post by jeffercake)
Obviously with a PGCE you will learn the pedagogy and theory of teaching. But that's not what you were saying.


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Correct. That is what I meant by an academic qualification being fully portable. There is no evidence that school based training is superior to that which is on offer in universities. In fact the future supply of qualified teachers is in jeopardy because postgraduate training places in university education departments have been cut by half.
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Blou17
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(Original post by ST10)
I've had a quick search but thought I'd ask anyway.

A lot of the schools direct places seem to only offer QTS & not a PGCE. I wondered if this would put me at a disadvantage in the future if I only had QTS and not the PGCE?

Thanks for any help!

I have only QTS (along with my BSc)and it has never been a disadvantage to me. I have taught in schools in the UK and moved abroad to teach in British International schools and again, no problem.

I now shortlist and interview other teachers as I am in school management and to be honest, your qualifications (as long as you are a qualified teacher!) are of very little interest. It's your experience, your personal letter, your sample lesson and what you are going to bring to my school that count. There are loads of different qualifications, plus you'll be against people who qualified years ago with, again, loads of different qualifications. Don't get het up about it, PGCE/QTS/BA/BSC/DIP ED isn't what counts.
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ldbsSCITT
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I am a School Direct programme manager for an ITT provider. We offer PGCE with our School Direct course as our schools really value it. It demonstrates that you have academic rigour and that you have undertaken research at a level that with benefit your practice. As you progress in your career, you will find that you will need an MA in order to access certain positions. Also, many countries (Australia for example) insist on teachers having PGCE so if you want to travel, you will need it.
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Blou17
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(Original post by ldbsSCITT)
I am a School Direct programme manager for an ITT provider. We offer PGCE with our School Direct course as our schools really value it. It demonstrates that you have academic rigour and that you have undertaken research at a level that with benefit your practice. As you progress in your career, you will find that you will need an MA in order to access certain positions. Also, many countries (Australia for example) insist on teachers having PGCE so if you want to travel, you will need it.
I agree that if you are interested and would like to learn more educational theory then a PGCE will give you that.

However, what will get you, and keep you in a job, is your ability to teach and manage a class.

It is simply not true that you need a PGCE to travel and teach, look at the TES jobs international section and you will see that it is experience and not qualifications (apart from a degree and QTS) that schools require. Australia may be the only exception to this, but they don't very often advertise for English speaking teachers overseas anyway as they have plenty of their own

Again, I agree having an MA is advantageous to certain management positions, certainly not all though. In any case, to get an MA you'll need to get an MA, PGCE or no PGCE, and entry to get on an MA course is a degree. A background in theory may help, granted, but again experience will count more than anything here too.
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ST10
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Thank you for all the replies
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TraineeLynsey
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I'm currently finishing my School Direct course (with PGCE). I'll be honest, initially I felt like the academic side was a waste of time, but now that I'm at the end of it I can see I've gained some valuable knowledge in the process of researching and writing my assignments.

HOWEVER, this knowledge could have been easily gained just by reading books independently and discussing the content with colleagues. At the end of the day, I was only in university for 11 days all year.

Most of what I apply in the classroom was learned from my colleagues and mentors. The academic bits are just icing on the cake (eg
I've always been inclined towards using mixed ability seating plans, but through my studies I can now fully articulate why this can be a good strategy and base that on a particular educational theory).
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rskotecha
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Hi, what Uni is that through? My course (which starts in Sep. 2016) does not offer that!
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(Original post by ldbsSCITT)
I am a School Direct programme manager for an ITT provider. We offer PGCE with our School Direct course as our schools really value it. It demonstrates that you have academic rigour and that you have undertaken research at a level that with benefit your practice. As you progress in your career, you will find that you will need an MA in order to access certain positions. Also, many countries (Australia for example) insist on teachers having PGCE so if you want to travel, you will need it.
Hi, please can I get in touch with you? My school only provides QTS, no PGCE.
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thebosunuk
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Having just finished a PGCE in modern languages at the University of Oxford, I think the following points are relevant:

1. Your choice of PGCE/QTS or QTS-only will very much affect your experience in the ITT year. The former, especially if university-based, is more generalised and it should make you more portable in the long run. It's in a school's interest (where virtually all the QTS-only courses are based) to make you fit its own mould, however good that might actually be. A university-based ITT course allows you more independence - you can always appeal to the university (but it also means you have another group of people to please).

2. Theory can help, especially in languages. My practice did benefit from theory, specifically second-language acquisition theory, which pretty much does what the label suggests. Understanding how children learnt a second-language was both stimulating and useful, even giving me extra patience in those crucial moments when they were struggling a little.

3. QTS-only is dry. A friend of mine did QTS-only this year in a girls' grammar school. When you only have the QTS standards to fill, mentors and the like seem to go hell for leather for them. While I leisurely compiled my file, he was quite aggressively observed from the start. I had a much broader and enjoyable experience than he did.

4. Teaching might become a master's level profession. There's long been talk of increasing the status of teaching. The master's credits a PGCE usually gives these days are potentially useful and it is worth studying at that level. The quite violent debates in education (which never let up) require you to have a personal perspective, unless you want to be one of the sheeple.

I think those are the main arguments for doing a PGCE! It worked for me!
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Angelil
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^^ Your point 3 seems to largely depend on the school/the experiences of the individual. I did QTS only and did not have such an experience.

I thought I had already posted on this thread, but it appears not! So here goes.

Having taught unqualified in international schools since 2008, I obtained my QTS via assessment-only in the 2013-2014 academic year. I too was able to compile my file in a leisurely manner while undergoing all of the necessary observations, tests etc.

I can fully demonstrate academic rigour through the fact that I also have a master's degree in linguistics. I don't think I necessarily need a PGCE on top in order to show this.

Many international schools will frankly hire you just with a master's degree. While the 'better' ones will arguably restrict themselves to qualified teachers only, QTS is sufficient to fulfil this criterion.

Sadly it is a myth that PGCEs are automatically portable everywhere in the world. My aunt gained her PGCE in 1983 (having completed a degree in French and Italian immediately before this) and taught in schools for 10 years in the UK before becoming a headteacher (she did this for 7 years). However, when she moved to France, local schools refused to hire her because she didn't have French teaching qualifications. Equally, more recently, a French friend of mine who completed her PGCE at Oxford more recently (I think in 2014) found that she had to gain the French teaching qualification on top of this when she returned to France as the PGCE was not accepted. Even though EU law dictates that their qualifications should have been recognised, this is frequently not the case in practice.

In short, even a PGCE is not a guarantee of portability internationally. Pay portability has been abolished anyway (even nationally) as far as I understand it - so in my view you should go into teaching via the route that works for you. For me, a PGCE + NQT year would not have worked as this would have involved me giving up my job and returning to the UK for 2 years. My husband would not have been able to come with me due to the nature of his work, so for me being to gain QTS via assessment-only in my own school was the perfect solution.
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