Is it possible to avoid doing night shifts as a junior doctor?

OK I guess its unlikely but is there any way around it? Or is it compulsory for everyone and you can't say swap or do part time to avoid it.

Also how often are the night shifts and at what stage of the career can a doctor stop doing night shifts, do senior doctors/consultants do much less night shifts? I don't mind up to 12am but I mean actually like later than that.

Is there any area you can specialise in that has no night shifts.

I am quite worried about this as I cannot function at all during nightime.

Reply 1

Becca-Sarah

19

Original post by DimaTae

OK I guess its unlikely but is there any way around it? Or is it compulsory for everyone and you can't say swap or do part time to avoid it.

Also how often are the night shifts and at what stage of the career can a doctor stop doing night shifts, do senior doctors/consultants do much less night shifts? I don't mind up to 12am but I mean actually like later than that.

Is there any area you can specialise in that has no night shifts.

I am quite worried about this as I cannot function at all during nightime.

The only way I've ever heard of people not doing nights as a junior is where Occupational Health decided it was unsafe for them, like if they had epilepsy that was particularly triggered by upset sleeping patterns.

Earliest I'd think you could stop would be if you did GP - minimum four years out of medical school.

However, I think picking your career based on something like night shifts is rather silly - you just get used to working in a different timeframe. It's not as if you stay up all day and then work at night, you just flip your bodyclock by 12 hours.

Reply 2

Muppet Science

14

Don't think Juniors can dodge it unless there are some exceptional circumstances.

I agree with Becca-Sarah basically :smile:

Reply 3

Helenia

20

You can pick rotations/specialties to minimise it, but even so I think you would struggle to avoid them completely. As for how long you continue doing them, it depends on your specialty. If you become a GP you might stop then, though the way things are going I think they will have to go back to doing more OOH work in the future. Most in-hospital specialties will still be doing night shifts right through training, though for some of the lab-based specialties like histopathology, or more niche ones like ophthalmology, you may be on-call from home rather than on your feet in the hospital. When you get to consultant level most on-calls are from home, though again this is changing and in certain specialties, most notably ICU and Emergency Medicine, we are moving towards a 24 hour consultant presence.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 4

Superfi

Working night shifts really isn't that bad. I have always been a morning person and I struggle to stay up beyond 10pm, but I've worked alternate day and night shifts for over 8 years now. To be honest I now actually prefer the night shifts. It does take a bit of getting used to but once you find a routine you will be fine.

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Reply 5

dances_with_lamposts

7

It depends where you work.....Some hospitals don't have f1's doing night shifts at all. Different story for f2 and beyond though, but hopefully you'll be able to pick the right specialty so as to try to avoid them. :smile:

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 6

Sarky

18

I hate nights, they make me feel ill and I never sleep properly during the day. But it comes with the territory. I knew I was gonna have to do them when I started work. Incidentally am now in an unbanded job and would almost rather do nights than be this brassic.

The post nights euphoria on the day you finish a stint of them is pretty awesome. I feel like i've won a prize for getting through them (that might just be me though).

Reply 7

DimaTae

OP

thanks for the answers guys,
What about if you go down the psychiatry path? Surely after the two foundation years you would not be in a normal hospital doing rotations but be in some sort of psychiatric clinic, would you still have to do night shifts while training to be a psychiatrist

Reply 8

Becca-Sarah

19

Original post by DimaTae

thanks for the answers guys,
What about if you go down the psychiatry path? Surely after the two foundation years you would not be in a normal hospital doing rotations but be in some sort of psychiatric clinic, would you still have to do night shifts while training to be a psychiatrist

Yup, would still involve nights - patients can present needing admission to a psychiatric unit 24/7, those inpatients need medical staff on site 24/7, and liason psych cover psychiatric problems in the main hospital (wards, A&E etc).

Reply 9

Sarky

18

Original post by DimaTae

thanks for the answers guys,
What about if you go down the psychiatry path? Surely after the two foundation years you would not be in a normal hospital doing rotations but be in some sort of psychiatric clinic, would you still have to do night shifts while training to be a psychiatrist

The psych team are never out of A+E during the night. Its where their office is based because they spend so much time there in my hospital. Nights may be less hectic than other specialties but they still exist especially at SHO level.

Reply 10

Pittawithcheese

6

Why are you so anti-nights? People become ill and hurt themselves at all times of the day and night and require care. If you are not prepared to work unsociable hours then I think you should ask yourself whether this is the career for you....? Nurses and other healthcare professionals have to work all hours of the day and night and doctors should as well.

That aside, I anticipate that if you had childcare needs then you would be able to apply to work flexibly, to exclude night shifts. Otherwise, I think you need to just suck it up and get used to drinking Red Bull at 1am...

Reply 11

Data

14

Original post by Pittawithcheese

That aside, I anticipate that if you had childcare needs then you would be able to apply to work flexibly, to exclude night shifts..

That would seem unfair to everyone else. I don't see why having kids should give you the right to pick the shifts you want to the detriment of others - and I speak as a mother of 3.

Reply 12

Helenia

20

Original post by Data

That would seem unfair to everyone else. I don't see why having kids should give you the right to pick the shifts you want to the detriment of others - and I speak as a mother of 3.

I don't think it's possible to totally avoid nights if you have kids (unless you pick a specialty with no/very limited nighttime commitment), but it can be used as a "special consideration" to allow you to pick shifts to fit around your childcare better. It is a bit unfair on the others who don't have kids, but it's better that you pick your shifts and actually work them than that you are allocated shifts for which you can't arrange childcare, meaning the others have to cover at the last minute. It is highly variable how much flexibility/choice there is though.

Reply 13

Pittawithcheese

6

Original post by Data

That would seem unfair to everyone else. I don't see why having kids should give you the right to pick the shifts you want to the detriment of others - and I speak as a mother of 3.

Agree with it or not (I am indifferent myself) I believe that the right to request flexible working is specifically provided in employment legislation. No right to have the request approved, but the right to request is protected in statute.

I speak as a manager of a station full of 24/7 shift workers, many of whom work flexibly (and a mother of 2....)

Reply 14

Data

14

Original post by Pittawithcheese

I believe that the right to request flexible working is specifically provided in employment legislation. No right to have the request approved, but the right to request is protected in statute

Agree with what you say - legally you have the right to ask but not to have your wish granted. I attempt to work round many people's wishes when organising shifts, particularly if it is a relatively short term need - hospitalised child, dying parent etc, but I was just expressing a view that I don't see why having kids gives you a long term right to avoid anything you want to do - you either take what goes with the job or find a job that fits in better.