Feminists anger over bank notes

Original post by contrapositive

A man can wear what he wants. But it's everyone else's prerogative to think it extroadinary.

Yes. My point is, although women are the most openly oppressed, there are certain oppressions faced by men in western society such as men 'can't' wear dresses. You said yourself that "it's bloody odd" for a man to wear a dress. And why? Because it's ingrained into our minds that being womanly is weak.
If you think about it, the oppression faced by men is due to the oppression faced by women. Women used to be considered the lesser sex, (and still are by some people), so anything considered to be womanly was seen to be a sign of weakness.

Reply 182

contrapositive

11

Original post by RedPaperFox

Yes. My point is, although women are the most openly oppressed, there are certain oppressions faced by men in western society such as men 'can't' wear dresses. You said yourself that "it's bloody odd" for a man to wear a dress. And why? Because it's ingrained into our minds that being womanly is weak.
If you think about it, the oppression faced by men is due to the oppression faced by women. Women used to be considered the lesser sex, (and still are by some people), so anything considered to be womanly was seen to be a sign of weakness.

Typical feminist drivel 'all oppression of men is a result of oppression of women.'

Reply 183

Original post by Hopple

You can't reconcile the two. Equal rights would be to be blind to the differences between the genders (and whatever other groups people were in), so you can't hold that position yet also favour the cause of one gender over another.

But are men and women really so different? Why should it always be men .v. women, we're all the same species, all human. Feminism is not about favouring the rights of one gender over the other, it is about having THE SAME rights.

Reply 184

Chief Wiggum

20

Original post by RedPaperFox

But are men and women really so different? Why should it always be men .v. women, we're all the same species, all human. Feminism is not about favouring the rights of one gender over the other, it is about having THE SAME rights.

But it only ever seems to comment on issues where women are disadvantaged.

Reply 185

Original post by Chief Wiggum

But it only ever seems to comment on issues where women are disadvantaged.

Not to mention the fact that it doesn't really even prove discrimination, in cases it brings up; only difference in OUTCOME.

Reply 186

Hopple

Original post by RedPaperFox

But are men and women really so different? Why should it always be men .v. women, we're all the same species, all human. Feminism is not about favouring the rights of one gender over the other, it is about having THE SAME rights.

That's what feminists have done. In the past it was justified because men were so far ahead, but these days it's arguable that women are ahead. Either way, there's no justification under equality for favouring women's issues over men's, at least in this country.

Reply 187

Octopus_Garden

16

Actually the "we want a female doctor" thing is neither recent, nor perpetrated by feminists. (Although I don't doubt some have joined in with it.)

It's been suggested by reporters wanting an easy, controversial story, every time the actor presently playing the Doctor is known to be retiring. It's been going on since the seventies now. I can't decide what's more irritating: the fact it gets brought out again and again, for the fact people treat it as a serious discussion each and every time.

Which all goes to show that trolling pre-dates the invention of the internet!

Reply 188

Original post by contrapositive

Typical feminist drivel 'all oppression of men is a result of oppression of women.'

And just when I thought we were getting somewhere. And I did not say "all." Do you not believe that women should have the same rights as men?

Reply 189

HermesTrismegistus

8

Original post by wildrover

You can't have two monarchs on a bank note.

Sorry, but how do you know that? Is there some law stating that?

Reply 190

Original post by RedPaperFox

Aha, I will have to disagree with you there. Here is a link for the definition of patriarchy. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/patriarchy

Stating a dictionary definition, proves nothing as to the implications or extent of the phenomenon. Here, I can find an entry for 'matriarchy': http://www.thefreedictionary.com/matriarchy.

Does this prove that we live in a matriarchy?

Reply 191

Norton1

Original post by Chief Wiggum

But it only ever seems to comment on issues where women are disadvantaged.

Surely because the vast majority of issues do show discrimination against women, if discrimination there is. The only two areas where I can think of real discrimination against men is in the family courts and sentencing in the criminal courts. Otherwise it's pretty much a clean sweep for men.

Reply 192

Original post by Chief Wiggum

But it only ever seems to comment on issues where women are disadvantaged.

Yes, because for the most part women are the ones who are disadvantaged. Feminism is about choice and equal rights. It is not just limited to the fight for equal rights for women, but that is where it's beginnings lie, and is still today it's main point. But if you believe that men and women should have equal rights, which is what feminism is about, then you fight for oppression not just for women, but for anyone who is oppressed.

Reply 193

Chief Wiggum

20

Original post by Norton1

Surely because the vast majority of issues do show discrimination against women, if discrimination there is. The only two areas where I can think of real discrimination against men is in the family courts and sentencing in the criminal courts. Otherwise it's pretty much a clean sweep for men.

Academic performance at school is in favour of women. Women live longer. Women retire earlier.

Of course that doesn't suggest there's DISCRIMINATION against men, but the same point can be made for any of the dubious "discrimination against women" examples that feminism talks about.

Reply 194

Hopple

Original post by RedPaperFox

And just when I thought we were getting somewhere. And I did not say "all." Do you not believe that women should have the same rights as men?

What rights do men have that women don't?

Reply 195

Original post by Chief Wiggum

Academic performance at school is in favour of women. Women live longer. Women retire earlier.

Of course that doesn't suggest there's DISCRIMINATION against men, but the same point can be made for any of the dubious "discrimination against women" examples that feminism talks about.

I've said this on other threads, only earlier, but feminism basically shows its transparency and one-sidedness, by acknowledging the difference between 'equality' and 'equality of opportunity' ONLY when females are doing better. For example, wage gap = discrimination against women; girls do better at school = girls are cleverer and/or try harder.

Fewer women in the boardrooms = not women's fault; more homeless men = IS men's fault.

Either you differentiate between 'equality' and 'equality of opportunity', or you don't. You can't employ one logic where it suits, and the other, where the first one doesn't.

Feminists just don't seem to see this epic hypocrisy of theirs.

Reply 196

northbrad30

When feminism first started women saw it as a way to try and create this: women=men. Now there is very little discrimination between both genders, it seems feminists operate trying to implement this: women>men.

No feminist on here or currently campaigning has been able to name anybody more influential then Churchill, so is it not sexist a woman would appear on a note based not on her achievements but her gender? Considering feminists say they do not believe people should not be discriminated against because of their gender, why should Churchill not appear on a bank note just because he is male?

Reply 197

Original post by RedPaperFox

Yes, because for the most part women are the ones who are disadvantaged. Feminism is about choice and equal rights. It is not just limited to the fight for equal rights for women, but that is where it's beginnings lie, and is still today it's main point. But if you believe that men and women should have equal rights, which is what feminism is about, then you fight for oppression not just for women, but for anyone who is oppressed.

What feminists don't seem to understand, is just going on about how you don't hate men, and how you only want equality, is NOT a justification for feminism. You have to provide proper EVIDENCE, to back up your claims; and evidence of DISCRIMINATION, not just cherry-picking areas in which men outperform women/have some sort of an upper hand.

Reply 198

Chief Wiggum

20

Original post by truffle_girl

I've said this on other threads, only earlier, but feminism basically shows its transparency and one-sidedness, by acknowledging the difference between 'equality' and 'equality of opportunity' ONLY when females are doing better. For example, wage gap = discrimination against women; girls do better at school = girls are cleverer and/or try harder.
.

Yes, I've made that exact point before. It's very true IMO.

Reply 199

Norton1