The reality of sexism in the UK today - bank note campaigner forced into hiding
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Original post by kidomo
i mentioned this in the other thread, but i never got an answer,,,
I think Austen is more deserving than Franklin. Franklin did not actually come up with the double helix structure of DNA (that was Watson and Crick), so while she helped, I think Austen has more "individual achievement". If Franklin was chosen, I would immediately just think "that should have been Crick instead of her".
(And I would consider Crick to be more deserving than both Franklin and Austen.)
I also made several posts about this in the other thread, so I probably should stop mentioning it now...
(edited 10 years ago)
I think its shocking that she has had her life threatened to the extend that she is now forced to live in hiding.
I don't care so much about the banknotes but the extremely disproportionate negative response this young activist got is
definitely wrong.
I can anticipate the disturbing youtube comments getting the most likes.
I don't care so much about the banknotes but the extremely disproportionate negative response this young activist got is
definitely wrong.
I can anticipate the disturbing youtube comments getting the most likes.
(edited 10 years ago)
Unfortunately that's just what happens on the internet when people put themselves in the spotlight. If a black person had campaigned to have a black person on the bank notes and it was accepted then internet trolls would probably bombard that person with racial abuse...that doesn't mean though that our country is a racist one, or that we have "a long way to go to modernise our attitudes"
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Caroline Criado-Perez, the graduate student who led the campaign to ask the Bank of England to feature at least one woman on the banknotes, has been forced to leave her home by large numbers of death threats, threats of sexual violence and other threats - she is now living at a guest house under her boyfriend's name.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/04/caroline-criado-perez-twitter-rape-threats
The reality of sexism in the UK - not some abstract discussion about lad mags, but harsh threatening behaviour dished out to a female student who has the temerity to win a battle to have the authorities recognise women in a public way. She's a really good person and her family have been through a lot - she deserves better.
Britain has a long way to go to modernise its attitudes.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/04/caroline-criado-perez-twitter-rape-threats
The reality of sexism in the UK - not some abstract discussion about lad mags, but harsh threatening behaviour dished out to a female student who has the temerity to win a battle to have the authorities recognise women in a public way. She's a really good person and her family have been through a lot - she deserves better.
Britain has a long way to go to modernise its attitudes.
Every single bank note on the UK has a woman on it, shes known as queen elizabeth . I really dont see the problem. Shes a monarch for crying out loud -pretty much trumps whoever else is on there.
I very much doubt most people think about this and i bet theres even fewer who off the top of thier head and without checking/researching - could tell you who is on the bank notes
Tis horribe its happening to her, shes done nothing wrong and shes sure as hell doesnt deserve those of kind of messages
(edited 10 years ago)
I wonder what the TSR reaction would be if it turns out these guys making rape threats are all Muslims.
Will these males still be saying "meh, feminism is pointless anyway, why put that woman on the bank note" or will they suddenly get stiffies at the chance to discuss how disgusting it is and how its a "Muslim problem".
Will these males still be saying "meh, feminism is pointless anyway, why put that woman on the bank note" or will they suddenly get stiffies at the chance to discuss how disgusting it is and how its a "Muslim problem".
A lot of feminists are against banning womens mags too, this is a big misconception. Just because it happens to other people doesn't mean it's right or can be in any way justified and these things when 'left unchecked they end up dictating our way of life.' How can anyone even be certain that its not a feminist attack anyway?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Caroline Criado-Perez, the graduate student who led the campaign to ask the Bank of England to feature at least one woman on the banknotes, has been forced to leave her home by large numbers of death threats, threats of sexual violence and other threats - she is now living at a guest house under her boyfriend's name.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/04/caroline-criado-perez-twitter-rape-threats
The reality of sexism in the UK - not some abstract discussion about lad mags, but harsh threatening behaviour dished out to a female student who has the temerity to win a battle to have the authorities recognise women in a public way. She's a really good person and her family have been through a lot - she deserves better.
Britain has a long way to go to modernise its attitudes.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/04/caroline-criado-perez-twitter-rape-threats
The reality of sexism in the UK - not some abstract discussion about lad mags, but harsh threatening behaviour dished out to a female student who has the temerity to win a battle to have the authorities recognise women in a public way. She's a really good person and her family have been through a lot - she deserves better.
Britain has a long way to go to modernise its attitudes.
She doesn't deserve to be killed or raped, or even threatened to have that done to her, but if you take such a sexist stance you are going to get hit back, and typing stuff on Twitter is easy to do and (should be) meaningless so you go for the most hateful. She started it with an attack on men, that Churchill shouldn't replace Fry because he was a man. She's a woman so on top of murder the threat of rape is additionally 'valid'. People have threatened to kill me on the internet (and surprise surprise, I'm still alive), and I'd be surprised if a regular user of it hadn't. You just ignore it
It's not as if stopping them from posting the threat will make them less likely to commit the crime if they really intended to, and could even make them more likely to do so. Whilst no doubt there are people who think women should be seen and not heard, the abuse she's getting is also in the vein of "You attack men so I attack you. Oh, and you're a woman so I'll threaten to rape you as well.", and even "Lol, a bunch of people are slagging this person off, I'll join in for fun".I think the media have had a hand in this too. Criado-Perez didn't campaign for Austen specifically, yet the media didn't make that as clear as it should have so people who think Darwin is more deserving than Austen blame her for that too. There's also that people get cycled on and off notes anyway, and Darwin appeared only a couple of years after Fry, which not everyone seems to be aware of. They deliberately inflame a situation to get a story. It's also quite likely that Austen was already lined up to go on the tenner before the decision to replace Fry was announced, yet it's as if Criado-Perez (and co) forced them to do it - though likely it hastened their disclosure.
Original post by Cll_ws
Unfortunately that's just what happens on the internet when people put themselves in the spotlight. If a black person had campaigned to have a black person on the bank notes and it was accepted then internet trolls would probably bombard that person with racial abuse...that doesn't mean though that our country is a racist one, or that we have "a long way to go to modernise our attitudes"
Indeed, her gender is merely an extra way to attack her, not the reason why she's being attacked.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Caroline Criado-Perez, the graduate student who led the campaign to ask the Bank of England to feature at least one woman on the banknotes, has been forced to leave her home by large numbers of death threats, threats of sexual violence and other threats - she is now living at a guest house under her boyfriend's name.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/04/caroline-criado-perez-twitter-rape-threats
The reality of sexism in the UK - not some abstract discussion about lad mags, but harsh threatening behaviour dished out to a female student who has the temerity to win a battle to have the authorities recognise women in a public way. She's a really good person and her family have been through a lot - she deserves better.
Britain has a long way to go to modernise its attitudes.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/04/caroline-criado-perez-twitter-rape-threats
The reality of sexism in the UK - not some abstract discussion about lad mags, but harsh threatening behaviour dished out to a female student who has the temerity to win a battle to have the authorities recognise women in a public way. She's a really good person and her family have been through a lot - she deserves better.
Britain has a long way to go to modernise its attitudes.
Is the Queen not a woman, I am so very confused.
Any argument against the Queen not really being a woman on a banknote is pretty stupid if you ask me.
Don't get me wrong, I am not sexist, but taking such a key figure in the worlds history, a figure that shaped our understanding of where we came from and then replace him with a woman that wrote a few books? The amount they gave to society is not the same. I just don't think that such a key figure should be taken off the banknote, its a mistake.
Original post by Apocrypha
Is the Queen not a woman, I am so very confused.
Any argument against the Queen not really being a woman on a banknote is pretty stupid if you ask me.
Any argument against the Queen not really being a woman on a banknote is pretty stupid if you ask me.
The queen is there due to her birth, not her achievements. Other faces on currency are determined by merit, and there is no shortage of deserving women.
To be honest, this doesn't really sound like trolling, it seems much more sinister. And the cause behind it is pretty creepy as well - all Criado-Perez wanted was equal (or at least, some!) representation of women on currency. Even if she did 'put herself in the public eye', it in no way excuses the fact that she now has to live in fear. Rape/death threats aren't exactly a normal consequence of being in the public eye.
The thing that annoyed me most about this story was when the people (if you can even call them that) were caught THEY HAD TO BE MADE TO APOLOGISE FOR THREATENING TO RAPE HER!! The fact that they deleted their trolling accounts and tried to cover their tracks shows that they knew what they did was wrong why this didn't extend to an apology is beyond me. What world do we live in where its acceptable to say this to anyone; and then not take responsibility for your actions
But like every tunnel there is light - trolls are finally being taken seriously or rather the way they are handled with on twitter. It's a shame it took such intimidation to get those in authority to get up and do something.
But like every tunnel there is light - trolls are finally being taken seriously or rather the way they are handled with on twitter. It's a shame it took such intimidation to get those in authority to get up and do something.
Original post by eclectic_
The queen is there due to her birth, not her achievements. Other faces on currency are determined by merit, and there is no shortage of deserving women.
To be honest, this doesn't really sound like trolling, it seems much more sinister. And the cause behind it is pretty creepy as well - all Criado-Perez wanted was equal (or at least, some!) representation of women on currency. Even if she did 'put herself in the public eye', it in no way excuses the fact that she now has to live in fear. Rape/death threats aren't exactly a normal consequence of being in the public eye.
To be honest, this doesn't really sound like trolling, it seems much more sinister. And the cause behind it is pretty creepy as well - all Criado-Perez wanted was equal (or at least, some!) representation of women on currency. Even if she did 'put herself in the public eye', it in no way excuses the fact that she now has to live in fear. Rape/death threats aren't exactly a normal consequence of being in the public eye.
She took an anti-man stance. Churchill shouldn't replace Fry because he was a man. Women should be guaranteed a spot even if a man was better. As I said above, that doesn't mean she deserves to be threatened, but she did invite some level of abuse upon herself by taking such a sexist stance. Some of it is the sinister intent that you allude to (intimidation, essentially), but a lot of it is flaming, and also people joining in 'for fun'.
Original post by eclectic_
The queen is there due to her birth, not her achievements. Other faces on currency are determined by merit, and there is no shortage of deserving women.
To be honest, this doesn't really sound like trolling, it seems much more sinister. And the cause behind it is pretty creepy as well - all Criado-Perez wanted was equal (or at least, some!) representation of women on currency. Even if she did 'put herself in the public eye', it in no way excuses the fact that she now has to live in fear. Rape/death threats aren't exactly a normal consequence of being in the public eye.
To be honest, this doesn't really sound like trolling, it seems much more sinister. And the cause behind it is pretty creepy as well - all Criado-Perez wanted was equal (or at least, some!) representation of women on currency. Even if she did 'put herself in the public eye', it in no way excuses the fact that she now has to live in fear. Rape/death threats aren't exactly a normal consequence of being in the public eye.
Defeats the point that people say there are no women on banknotes though.
There is a woman on every single one. Thats what everyone sees, i couldnt even name everyone on the backside of each banknote now, but i know the Queens head is on it.
This became a sexism issue only because feminists started campaigning about it. No one really cares who is on a banknote. I just think its pointless to print even more money and waste time taking tenners out of circulation, only for the queen to die and then every note be remade anyway.
Original post by Haza2012
Don't get me wrong, I am not sexist, but taking such a key figure in the worlds history, a figure that shaped our understanding of where we came from and then replace him with a woman that wrote a few books? The amount they gave to society is not the same. I just don't think that such a key figure should be taken off the banknote, its a mistake.
He wasn't taken off to make way for her - he was taken off because money is regularly changed in design in an attempt to stay ahead of counterfeiters who get better at duplicating money. Charles was sadly gonna be replaced in accordance with the preemptive measures taken by the bank to circumvent money forgery.
Tbh I don't think internet trolling tells us much about the state of sexism in the uk.
Just that people are tempted to jump on a rolling bandwagon and engage in competive bad behaviour if they feel they're anonymous and able to avoid the consequences. Which we already knew.
An internet trollstorm isn't any sort of scientific sample of a whole society. As a graduate of ppe you should know about this stuff
Just that people are tempted to jump on a rolling bandwagon and engage in competive bad behaviour if they feel they're anonymous and able to avoid the consequences. Which we already knew.
An internet trollstorm isn't any sort of scientific sample of a whole society. As a graduate of ppe you should know about this stuff
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Caroline Criado-Perez, the graduate student who led the campaign to ask the Bank of England to feature at least one woman on the banknotes, has been forced to leave her home by large numbers of death threats, threats of sexual violence and other threats - she is now living at a guest house under her boyfriend's name.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/04/caroline-criado-perez-twitter-rape-threats
The reality of sexism in the UK - not some abstract discussion about lad mags, but harsh threatening behaviour dished out to a female student who has the temerity to win a battle to have the authorities recognise women in a public way. She's a really good person and her family have been through a lot - she deserves better.
Britain has a long way to go to modernise its attitudes.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/04/caroline-criado-perez-twitter-rape-threats
The reality of sexism in the UK - not some abstract discussion about lad mags, but harsh threatening behaviour dished out to a female student who has the temerity to win a battle to have the authorities recognise women in a public way. She's a really good person and her family have been through a lot - she deserves better.
Britain has a long way to go to modernise its attitudes.
Why exactly has she gone into hiding? (Then allowed key details about where she is to be printed in the Guardian, doubt she'd be that hard to find) I've been following this and the tweets she's been sent have been disgusting but has this gone further than that? I mean its pretty terrible to be sent death threats via Twitter but I think you'll be hard placed to find anyone who has not been sent death threats over the internet and just about every public figure who has ever stepped online will have had a sustained hate campaign launched against them. This seems a slight overreaction, she seems to be milking this for all its worth and that article is really badly written.
Also the fact that women who have been targeted by these online campaigns have seen a ton of news coverage seems to suggest that no most of Britain does not accept this sort of behavior towards anyone as alright. We will never live in a society where everyone believes in equality and basic human decency, you will always have dickheads who come crawling out of the woodwork to hurl abuse at people who put themselves out there.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Hopple
She took an anti-man stance. Churchill shouldn't replace Fry because he was <i>a man</i>. Women should be guaranteed a spot even if a man was better. As I said above, that doesn't mean she deserves to be threatened, but she did invite some level of abuse upon herself by taking such a sexist stance. Some of it is the sinister intent that you allude to (intimidation, essentially), but a lot of it is flaming, and also people joining in 'for fun'.
It wasn't "anti-man". Don't be ridiculous. She was being pro-women, which is not the same thing. Men see themselves reflected everywhere, in all aspects of society, even in the very language we speak they are the default for collectives or jobs ("mankind"/"chairman") and in no way do they lose out by having ONE woman on a bank note. Caroline wasn't being sexist by wanting more representation for women. I bet you think affirmative action is racist as well.
She didn't 'invite abuse'. There's nothing wrong with her, but there's clearly something wrong with the people (men) who sent her rape and death threats just because she stood up for women's rights. By and large, a disproportionate and hateful reaction.
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