Postgrad study : US vs. UK
Hi there, I'm an undergrad studying molecular biology & genetics.Although I'm a second year I'm quite freaked out, would be glad if you helped me sort this out by sharing your experiences/opinions.
First, in the US students directly apply a phd and i have to take GRE.This seems a bit scary because i don't fancy examinations (i know, nobody does) and it might be ridiculous but i think like "I'm too young to be doctor!"
phds last in 5-6 years, do you think this is a waste of time? In the UK it lasts in 3 years as far as i know, can we say that UK system has more academic rigor? Also in the us admissions are much more merit based, i feel like literally everybody can do a phd in us, do you think doing a phd in uk is more valuable?Because some people told me doing postgrad study in us is pointless unless you get into an ivy college.
Also which one is more advantageous : phd or msc+phd ?
That's all i can think of right now but you can compare any aspect you want or you can just share you experiences anything would be helpful
First, in the US students directly apply a phd and i have to take GRE.This seems a bit scary because i don't fancy examinations (i know, nobody does) and it might be ridiculous but i think like "I'm too young to be doctor!"
phds last in 5-6 years, do you think this is a waste of time? In the UK it lasts in 3 years as far as i know, can we say that UK system has more academic rigor? Also in the us admissions are much more merit based, i feel like literally everybody can do a phd in us, do you think doing a phd in uk is more valuable?Because some people told me doing postgrad study in us is pointless unless you get into an ivy college.Also which one is more advantageous : phd or msc+phd ?
That's all i can think of right now but you can compare any aspect you want or you can just share you experiences anything would be helpful
Do a PhD in the US if you want to work in the US or feel like you need/want the additional coursework and teaching. If you want to focus on your research, stay in the UK. Never go to a crappy university, neither in the US nor in the UK.
I wouldn't do a MSc before going into a US PhD. A MSc seems redundant in that case.
I wouldn't do a MSc before going into a US PhD. A MSc seems redundant in that case.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Zefiros
Do a PhD in the US if you want to work in the US or feel like you need/want the additional coursework and teaching. If you want to focus on your research, stay in the UK. Never go to a crappy university, neither in the US nor in the UK.
I wouldn't do a MSc before going into a US PhD. A MSc seems redundant in that case.
I wouldn't do a MSc before going into a US PhD. A MSc seems redundant in that case.
I don't know where i wanna live but i really don't have any teaching skills.
Original post by geneticist
Hi there, I'm an undergrad studying molecular biology & genetics.Although I'm a second year I'm quite freaked out, would be glad if you helped me sort this out by sharing your experiences/opinions.
First, in the US students directly apply a phd and i have to take GRE.This seems a bit scary because i don't fancy examinations (i know, nobody does) and it might be ridiculous but i think like "I'm too young to be doctor!" phds last in 5-6 years, do you think this is a waste of time? In the UK it lasts in 3 years as far as i know, can we say that UK system has more academic rigor? Also in the us admissions are much more merit based, i feel like literally everybody can do a phd in us, do you think doing a phd in uk is more valuable?Because some people told me doing postgrad study in us is pointless unless you get into an ivy college.
Also which one is more advantageous : phd or msc+phd ?
That's all i can think of right now but you can compare any aspect you want or you can just share you experiences anything would be helpful
First, in the US students directly apply a phd and i have to take GRE.This seems a bit scary because i don't fancy examinations (i know, nobody does) and it might be ridiculous but i think like "I'm too young to be doctor!"
phds last in 5-6 years, do you think this is a waste of time? In the UK it lasts in 3 years as far as i know, can we say that UK system has more academic rigor? Also in the us admissions are much more merit based, i feel like literally everybody can do a phd in us, do you think doing a phd in uk is more valuable?Because some people told me doing postgrad study in us is pointless unless you get into an ivy college.Also which one is more advantageous : phd or msc+phd ?
That's all i can think of right now but you can compare any aspect you want or you can just share you experiences anything would be helpful
What do you want to do long-term? That is the most important question when deciding which route to take.
Original post by jay2013
What do you want to do long-term? That is the most important question when deciding which route to take.
I want to do research, be an academic
Original post by geneticist
phds last in 5-6 years, do you think this is a waste of time?
Definitely not a "waste of time."
geneticist
In the UK it lasts in 3 years as far as i know, can we say that UK system has more academic rigor?
In the UK it lasts in 3 years as far as i know, can we say that UK system has more academic rigor?
No, the UK PhD system is not more academically rigorous than in the US.
geneticist
Also in the us admissions are much more merit based, i feel like literally everybody can do a phd in us, do you think doing a phd in uk is more valuable? Because some people told me doing postgrad study in us is pointless unless you get into an ivy college.
Also in the us admissions are much more merit based, i feel like literally everybody can do a phd in us, do you think doing a phd in uk is more valuable? Because some people told me doing postgrad study in us is pointless unless you get into an ivy college.
No, not "everyone can do a PhD in the US." No, doing a PhD in the UK is not more valuable. No, it is not pointless to do a PhD in the US unless you to go an Ivy League school.
Original post by geneticist
I want to do research, be an academic
If that is the case then doing a PhD is not a waste of time! I too am thinking of moving to the US for my PhD, mainly because I want to move to North America long-term and also because I want to study aboard.
Do a MSc + PhD is what I would advise, mainly because I'm doing the same (but for Sport and Exercise Science). Doing a MSc will open up opportunities to gain more experience in your field (work placements/internships/job offers) while at the same time giving you a qualification and adding weight to your PhD application in the long-term (i.e. because you'll be doing more research during your MSc).
Original post by Viceroy
Definitely not a "waste of time."
No, the UK PhD system is not more academically rigorous than in the US.
No, not "everyone can do a PhD in the US." No, doing a PhD in the UK is not more valuable. No, it is not pointless to do a PhD in the US unless you to go an Ivy League school.
No, the UK PhD system is not more academically rigorous than in the US.
No, not "everyone can do a PhD in the US." No, doing a PhD in the UK is not more valuable. No, it is not pointless to do a PhD in the US unless you to go an Ivy League school.
I know engineering students who got phd offers with 2.5-2.6 cumulative gpas (out of 4) and I'm horrified by that, don't you think this is insane? Of course a student's gpa can't show his enthusiasm, i have friends who are aimless outstanding students but 2.5 is just crazy because this isn't high school, we can't say extracurriculars are way more important O.o
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by geneticist
I know engineering students who got phd offers with 2.5-2.6 cumulative gpas (out of 4) and I'm horrified by that, don't you think this is insane? Of course a student's gpa can't show his enthusiasm, i have friends who are aimless outstanding students but 2.5 is just crazy because this isn't high school, we can't say extracurriculars are way more important O.o
First of all, these people might have (a) gone to extremely rigorous schools and/or (b) been in extremely rigorous programs. Also, I do not know where these people were admitted (or if they were given any funding), so it is a huge generalization to say that it is "insane" that these people were admitted anywhere. They might not have gotten into very good programs and/or GPA might not have been a major factor in admission. There are other parts of the application, too, it's not just GPA that's important. In fact, in some fields, GPA doesn't matter that much at all.
I, for one, can tell you that I was admitted to seven PhD programs (Harvard, Cornell, Michigan, Berkeley, Stanford, UPenn, and Columbia) with full funding and had a 3.7 GPA from Princeton, 78% average from Cambridge. These programs only admitted 1-2 new PhD students a year. Of course, there are students in my current program who were only admitted to one program (ours) and had credentials that were very different from my own (not necessarily worse/better, just different).
Moral of the story: don't generalize. Good programs are very hard to get into, as many of them fully fund their PhD students for 4-6 years. That's a lot of money to invest in a single student.
But if you are an undergrad in the UK then why don't you do a 4th year so you can have an Msci degree, with that you can apply to any UK university to do a Phd. If your uni offers that 4th year then definitely do it!
and if you looking at universities in the US, then don't be fooled by the Ivy League comments in previous posts. Its just a sport league, no more, no less. If a uni participated in that league then it kind of means that its very old and hence famous but there are other good universities, some of them just as old and famous but they were not part of Ivy League because for example they were too far away (west coast for example)and all that travelling would have been too tedious back in the days just to play balls..
and if you looking at universities in the US, then don't be fooled by the Ivy League comments in previous posts. Its just a sport league, no more, no less. If a uni participated in that league then it kind of means that its very old and hence famous but there are other good universities, some of them just as old and famous but they were not part of Ivy League because for example they were too far away (west coast for example)and all that travelling would have been too tedious back in the days just to play balls..
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by benji385
and if you looking at universities in the US, then don't be fooled by the Ivy League comments in previous posts. Its just a sport league, no more, no less. If a uni participated in that league then it kind of means that its very old and hence famous but there are other good universities, some of them just as old and famous but they were not part of Ivy League because for example they were too far away (west coast for example)and all that travelling would have been too tedious back in the days just to play balls..
Exactly right!!
US PhDs are more comprehensive and in-depth than UK PhDs due to the extra time. A UK PhD grad will typically leave with a worse publication record since it is shorter. However when you apply to UK universities this is taken into account - but it can be a problem if you are applying for US jobs where everyone else has more on their CV than you do.
A result, if you do a PhD in the UK then you will often do a couple of extra years of post-doc to make up for the time you are lagging behind the US person, so it isn't likely to make a difference in the medium-long term.
Also note that the UK is moving toward the US model, and 1+3 year DTC/DTP programs are becoming more common.
A result, if you do a PhD in the UK then you will often do a couple of extra years of post-doc to make up for the time you are lagging behind the US person, so it isn't likely to make a difference in the medium-long term.
Also note that the UK is moving toward the US model, and 1+3 year DTC/DTP programs are becoming more common.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Viceroy
First of all, these people might have (a) gone to extremely rigorous schools and/or (b) been in extremely rigorous programs. Also, I do not know where these people were admitted (or if they were given any funding), so it is a huge generalization to say that it is "insane" that these people were admitted anywhere. They might not have gotten into very good programs and/or GPA might not have been a major factor in admission. There are other parts of the application, too, it's not just GPA that's important. In fact, in some fields, GPA doesn't matter that much at all.
I, for one, can tell you that I was admitted to seven PhD programs (Harvard, Cornell, Michigan, Berkeley, Stanford, UPenn, and Columbia) with full funding and had a 3.7 GPA from Princeton, 78% average from Cambridge. These programs only admitted 1-2 new PhD students a year. Of course, there are students in my current program who were only admitted to one program (ours) and had credentials that were very different from my own (not necessarily worse/better, just different).
Moral of the story: don't generalize. Good programs are very hard to get into, as many of them fully fund their PhD students for 4-6 years. That's a lot of money to invest in a single student.
I, for one, can tell you that I was admitted to seven PhD programs (Harvard, Cornell, Michigan, Berkeley, Stanford, UPenn, and Columbia) with full funding and had a 3.7 GPA from Princeton, 78% average from Cambridge. These programs only admitted 1-2 new PhD students a year. Of course, there are students in my current program who were only admitted to one program (ours) and had credentials that were very different from my own (not necessarily worse/better, just different).
Moral of the story: don't generalize. Good programs are very hard to get into, as many of them fully fund their PhD students for 4-6 years. That's a lot of money to invest in a single student.
a)Yes,but it's a choice b)Yes,but again it's a choice. That guy was admitted to University of Texas.(Evolutionary robotics)
Are you human?! You're making me feel depressed
Original post by benji385
But if you are an undergrad in the UK then why don't you do a 4th year so you can have an Msci degree, with that you can apply to any UK university to do a Phd. If your uni offers that 4th year then definitely do it!
and if you looking at universities in the US, then don't be fooled by the Ivy League comments in previous posts. Its just a sport league, no more, no less. If a uni participated in that league then it kind of means that its very old and hence famous but there are other good universities, some of them just as old and famous but they were not part of Ivy League because for example they were too far away (west coast for example)and all that travelling would have been too tedious back in the days just to play balls..
and if you looking at universities in the US, then don't be fooled by the Ivy League comments in previous posts. Its just a sport league, no more, no less. If a uni participated in that league then it kind of means that its very old and hence famous but there are other good universities, some of them just as old and famous but they were not part of Ivy League because for example they were too far away (west coast for example)and all that travelling would have been too tedious back in the days just to play balls..
I know Ivy's history but we can't deny they are better funded
(Also I'm outside of UK,non-EU)geneticist
"I know Ivy's history but we can't deny they are better funded (Also I'm outside of UK,non-EU)
(Also I'm outside of UK,non-EU)If you wanna come to the UK to do your Phd then you will need and MSc. If you were and undergrad over here then you could just spend an extra year on your undergrad (so 4 years altogether) and get a so called Msci which is kind of equivalent to a Bsc + MSc, but easier in a sense that it is paid by student finance (a separate Msc wouldn't be financed) and that you don't have to apply for an MSc at the end of your BSc.
If you wanna do your Phd in US then you probably won't need an MSc, but then it takes longer to complete a Phd (I think you have to go to classes and sit exams in your 1st year there, whereas in the UK you pretty much start your research straight away with the freedom to go to classes of your interests). Also you need GRE
Since you are an international student, I don't think that for you US or UK has an advantage over the other, if you were a home student then I probably would recommend staying home as then its easier to get funding. I think look where its easier for you to get funding and then apply there, as nobody does Phd out of his/her own pocket, that would be completley against the point.
Also if you do pick UK, then bear in mind that an MSc over here is almost never funded, not even for home students, so that can be pretty expensive over here especially with international fees.
(edited 9 years ago)
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