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Suicide- Courageous or cowardly

Zapsta

How about if someone just thinks no one cares? Surely then it's not selfish? Or if someone tells their friends or family catch them trying to kill themselves and they stop them because they don't want to lose them, and this person really wants to end things, then surely everyone else is being selfish? That's why I don't like the selfish argument.

As for things getting better, I've considered suicide seriously in the past, but because I'm strong minded I've always told myself that say in a couple of years when I start uni, it will be a chance for me to turn everything around, and I get by on that. However there are some days when it's difficult to see to the weekend, and even though you consider the future and other people you just don't think it's enough.

To your first arguement you know if I walked in on someone trying to commit suicide I'd try and stop them, they might be feeling really bad that day and by stopping them you're giving them another chance, trying to save someone isn't selfish.

Everyone experiences days like that, I do know, they think it's all too much, nothing's ever going to work out right, no one cares/ loves you... everyone's been though although I do realise for some the problems are too extreme to be able to cope...

Reply 41

Zapsta

me!

To your first arguement you know if I walked in on someone trying to commit suicide I'd try and stop them, they might be feeling really bad that day and by stopping them you're giving them another chance, trying to save someone isn't selfish.

Everyone experiences days like that, I do know, they think it's all too much, nothing's ever going to work out right, no one cares/ loves you... everyone's been though although I do realise for some the problems are too extreme to be able to cope...

It's selfish if they want to die! The they get kept under a watch for the rest of their lives by their friends and families who just want the best and they never get the chance again. When I was talking about days when you can't see any further, I didn't mean isolated incidents but in situations where life is a permanent low and particular days are even lower. It's really, really hard.

Reply 42

fifi53

1

Lepr

2. Perhaps you've just realised life is pointless and trivial, and you want to end your existence. That's a truth that won't be changed.

in this society realsing that kind of "truth" brands you insane and you'd be most likely put in hospital. i thought i had found the meaning of life (ie, killing myself) and got into many a heated argument about why i was right. psychosis or neurosis its a totally wrong way of thinking, they drug and talk it out of you until you think normally again. thinking that you have to kill yourself is not a "truth", therefore it can be chang3ed.

Reply 43

me!

8

Zapsta

It's selfish if they want to die! The they get kept under a watch for the rest of their lives by their friends and families who just want the best and they never get the chance again. When I was talking about days when you can't see any further, I didn't mean isolated incidents but in situations where life is a permanent low and particular days are even lower. It's really, really hard.

There are people to help, counsellors (sp), physciatrists (sp) etc, it's a terrible shame to waste a life. Yes I know life can be really, really hard and even to live from day to day is a struggle, but with the right help anyone can come back from it, they can, I know they can.

Reply 44

rIcHrD

To call suicide selfish because it neglects the wider community is equivalent to calling the wider community selfless for neglecting the suicidal individual.

It just isn't that simple, but it sure as hell is convenient to label a dead/half dead person selfish - certainly saves us having a moment's thought as to what lead them there. Suicide can be seen as a way of helping others, rather than just helping youself. In the eyes of the suicidal person, their death is the best solution to the problems they have and the problems they pose as individuals to the world. Yes a family and community are left with the 'pain' of berievement, but then conversely they are the only ones with time with which to get over it.

Surely it is emotionally distressing experience to feel your life has no value and never will, that you serve no benefit and never will and to hate yourself so much so that you are willing to take every last step to end every part of you. I wouldn't call that an easy position to be in. Taking the berievement of others, in my opinion at least is by far easier to cope with. I mean, you have the support of the entire community within your reach. On top of that, you have your life, your aspirations, the things that make you happy making every day still worth living.

The process of death may or may not be painful, but I don't think that's particularly relevant. It's more how you get there, what you feel, why you feel it and why you feel there is no salvation but losing the only possible thing of immeasurable value to you.

I am a little disappointed at those that suggest that suicide is the easy way out of life's mess and that teenagers do it out of unthoughtful angst. The strongest force compelling the action of all living things, humans included is to live. To overcome it is no trivial feat of the mind; it is perhaps the hardest thing you could ever do. To be in a position where overcoming is the easiest solution, I think is a tragedy of the ignorance and neglect of society on its most vulnerable members.

Reply 45

hihihihi

yes, i'd say that it would be unfair to lock someone up because they're suicidal. how frustrating and infuriating that must be..

Reply 46

Lepr

fifi53

in this society realsing that kind of "truth" brands you insane and you'd be most likely put in hospital. i thought i had found the meaning of life (ie, killing myself) and got into many a heated argument about why i was right. psychosis or neurosis its a totally wrong way of thinking, they drug and talk it out of you until you think normally again. thinking that you have to kill yourself is not a "truth", therefore it can be chang3ed.

I don't think realising the futility of your existence is insane at all, if anything it's quite brave.

Reply 47

fifi53

1

hihihihi

yes, i'd say that it would be unfair to lock someone up because they're suicidal. how frustrating and infuriating that must be..

very frustrating, but there really isnt a choice. i spent month after month on 24 hour observations, where 2 nurses would watch me sleep, eat, go to the loo. never less than an arms length away from me and always carrying alarms incase i tried to run (through the locked door... and hey i was so drugged i probably wouldnt be able to run). they tube-fed me, checked my mouth to make sure i wasnt stockpiling drugs and opened my mail. totally humiliating, but people mad enough to think they need to kill themselves need looking after.

Reply 48

Chocolate_Lover

this subjects is so sad it really upsets me

Reply 49

Chocolate_Lover

im speakin from xperience

Reply 50

hihihihi

fifi53

very frustrating, but there really isnt a choice. i spent month after month on 24 hour observations, where 2 nurses would watch me sleep, eat, go to the loo. never less than an arms length away from me and always carrying alarms incase i tried to run (through the locked door... and hey i was so drugged i probably wouldnt be able to run). they tube-fed me, checked my mouth to make sure i wasnt stockpiling drugs and opened my mail. totally humiliating, but people mad enough to think they need to kill themselves need looking after.

i can only try to empathise. if you don't mind me asking, how and when were you "free"

Reply 51

DevilsDoor

Suicide is an answer, it might not be THE answer, yet it is still an answer. To the suicidal individual its an ultimate end to the pain they are feeling, that noone else may know about or understand. It takes a lot to face life and all it can throw at you, unfortunately some people arent strong enough, feel they dont have the support network in place, or quite simply dont want to carry on in the existence they have.

A friend of mine committed suicide at 27, he left behind a family, his children and partner and I felt guilty for not seeing it coming. I thought I knew his state of mind and that he could come to me with any problem and we could work it out together, its taken many years (12 to be exact) to stop feeling so guilty and realise that he was determined to end his life and there was nothing I could do to prevent it.

Most if not all people that talk about suicide are not attention seekers, they genuinely feel at that time it is there only option. You could say its a cry for help, but many suicide victims that are *found* do not thank their saviours, they feel angry and bitter that they are still in the world, that has made them feel as bad as they do.

On this Im talking from personal experience. Unless a person has actually experienced what the suicidal person is feeling, can sit inside their head and *see* what they see, how they feel, then noone can actually say they know how that one individual feels, they can say they empathise, but they dont really know.

Look on it this way, that if the person with suicidal thoughts, believes that their family and friends would be better off without them and can justify their actions such, by perhaps using the rationalisation that death is easier to accept and cope with, than a living nightmare of emotional trauma that cant be seen, that they cant explain, that hurts so much, but doesnt leave a physical mark that can be seen, then to them dying is a relief to all. To them, they will think that they are no longer a burden on society, that its a totally unselfish act, because they are no longer going to drag down those around them that love them and care. Rightly or wrongly, it isnt what other people think that matters, its how that person thinks at that particular moment in time.

Reply 52

fifi53

1

hihihihi

i can only try to empathise. if you don't mind me asking, how and when were you "free"

i was put onto community care 6 months ago when i realised that i was so totally wrong there was no way i would try to kill myself again. i felt like i was a bit brainwashed back then, but learning i was wrong let me come around to my own reasoning for why i mustnt kill myself. you dont go forgetting the idea, thats with me for life, you just have to retrain how you deal with it.

Reply 53

Trousers

11

A friend of mine killed himself in 1999 - nearly 5 years ago now. He was beautiful, funny, smart, friendly... one of the nicest people I've ever been lucky enough to call a friend.

He didn't leave a note, so no one knows exactly what was going through his mind. I am still really confused about the whole thing, and his family and other friends were also devastated.

One of the few things that I am absolutely sure of is that his was no everyday teenage 'depression'. When Matt died he was 24, and he had everything going for him. Clinical depression is completely different from feeling a bit crap every now and then. People on this thread seem to think it's easy to get help and sort yourself out, but when your depressive feelings are really extreme it can seem like there's no way out.

He also had a loving family he was very close to, and I'm sure that he wouldn't have gone through with it without thinking hard about the people he was leaving behind. Ever felt that everyone else would be better off without you? Perhaps that's what he thought.

Since the day his body was found, everyone who ever knew him wishes they'd told him that wasn't the case.

Reply 54

Dude

14

If it's illegal, what are they going to do if you succesfully kill yourself?

Reply 55

Trousers

11

Dude

If it's illegal, what are they going to do if you succesfully kill yourself?

It's not illegal, but it's illegal to help someone commit suicide.

Reply 56

Everdawn

13

Suicide is illegal here at least. Somehting to do with the govt, origionally being christian in its lawmaking.

Reply 57

Dude

14

Trousers

It's not illegal, but it's illegal to help someone commit suicide.

Well what about that news story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2952123.stm

Reply 58

Everdawn

13

OMG! Speaking of doing stuff and governments and stuff, you know here, we have freedom of religion (which should make suicide not illegal, being a multicultural society) but we dont have Freedom of speech! Never remembered until legal today.