Artificial Intelligence
What do you think about AI? I am actually pretty afraid as already the biggest minds of the century have shown their concern. I really do not want to live in the era of robots and as more and more people are born and our population increases and at once robots take our jobs, what is the future for us? Haters please leave the issue. I look forward to creative conversation about very important problem.
I highly reccomend a video on youtube that covers the whole 'robots are taking our jobs' topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
And I totally understand the problem on unemployment and stuff. I myself am quite scared.
I guess taxing the rich people (who will become even richer because of this) more to give benefits to those who can't get jobs is the only way forward (not that I'm a communist or anything, chill :/ )
But yeah, I'm with you... I'm scared!!! :/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
And I totally understand the problem on unemployment and stuff. I myself am quite scared.
I guess taxing the rich people (who will become even richer because of this) more to give benefits to those who can't get jobs is the only way forward (not that I'm a communist or anything, chill :/ )
But yeah, I'm with you... I'm scared!!! :/
I have already seen this video and I think this is a huge issue that people tend to minimise because they find it as a sic-fi talk. But I think it is just a matter of time. The think I cannot understand is, if people are really concerned and afraid, why do they try to develop the technology? money and curiosity?
AI is a blanket term that covers all kinds of things from statistical modelling to using techniques inspired by the human mind and other biological processes to solve computational problems in an indirect manner (for example, simulating genetic processes in order to find optimal solutions to scheduling or network routing problems).
AI is not about producing computers/robots that think and/or behave like humans (with possible exception of scenarios where computational models are used to test the plausibility of neuroscientific hypotheses).
You should probably understand what AI actually is before you start getting "pretty afraid" of it. If you are referring to Hawking's recent bizarre comments then you should probably also ignore the comments of a theoretical physicist on the field of computer science.
Also, there is a bizarre logical fallacy in the idea that machines remove jobs - machines increase efficiency by freeing up human resource from time-consuming menial tasks to perform other work that otherwise could not have been done due to insufficient human resource. There's not simply a finite amount of work in the world that can be "taken up." There is always more stuff to do.
Even if that weren't true and you could conceivably reach a state where humans aren't needed to labour in order to support human life, then you don't have a situation where nobody can work, you have a situation where nobody needs to work and everyone can kick back while the robots do all of the heavy lifting to support society and the human way of life. A lack of need for human labour just devalues human labour - that is not a bad thing.
The people who are afraid of technology are the people who do not understand its implications.
AI is not about producing computers/robots that think and/or behave like humans (with possible exception of scenarios where computational models are used to test the plausibility of neuroscientific hypotheses).
You should probably understand what AI actually is before you start getting "pretty afraid" of it. If you are referring to Hawking's recent bizarre comments then you should probably also ignore the comments of a theoretical physicist on the field of computer science.
Also, there is a bizarre logical fallacy in the idea that machines remove jobs - machines increase efficiency by freeing up human resource from time-consuming menial tasks to perform other work that otherwise could not have been done due to insufficient human resource. There's not simply a finite amount of work in the world that can be "taken up." There is always more stuff to do.
Even if that weren't true and you could conceivably reach a state where humans aren't needed to labour in order to support human life, then you don't have a situation where nobody can work, you have a situation where nobody needs to work and everyone can kick back while the robots do all of the heavy lifting to support society and the human way of life. A lack of need for human labour just devalues human labour - that is not a bad thing.
The people who are afraid of technology are the people who do not understand its implications.
(edited 9 years ago)
But what about money? Everything is about it so when we have robots doing everything and people do not need to work, how can they afford basic needs?
That is why I started the conversation. I want people to show me their opinion and maybe explain me something that I am not aware of
But I had a pleasure of meeting guys from DeepMind and listening them on the lecture and they showed how their product can teach itself in a few hours how to be a perfect player in 2D games. I think it is very impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfGD2qveGdQ
That is why I started the conversation. I want people to show me their opinion and maybe explain me something that I am not aware of
But I had a pleasure of meeting guys from DeepMind and listening them on the lecture and they showed how their product can teach itself in a few hours how to be a perfect player in 2D games. I think it is very impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfGD2qveGdQ
Original post by Onetwotri
But what about money? Everything is about it so when we have robots doing everything and people do not need to work, how can they afford basic needs?
The whole concept of money is founded on the idea that you need to pay people for their time and services so that they, in turn, can pay others. If there is nobody working to provide those services because we have created a self-sustaining system that provides us with everything we need, then money is devalued to the point of irrelevance.
There is a fallacy in the idea that if robots replace human labour entirely we will all be unable to afford to live. If robots replace human labour then living is free because there is no work to do.
But I had a pleasure of meeting guys from DeepMind and listening them on the lecture and they showed how their product can teach itself in a few hours how to be a perfect player in 2D games. I think it is very impressive.
I have just had a scan of their abstract. From what I can see, their model is based on a computational neural net which is trained via reinforcement learning (probably a genetic algorithm or similar). This, again, is not about teaching a machine to think or behave like a human, but using biologically-inspired mechanisms to solve computational problems that are difficult to solve by simply writing procedural software. In essence, they boil down to automated approximation methods where you measure the success of the system and iteratively tweak its parameters to gradually move towards a "better" result.
You shouldn't overestimate what this means - the software has still been written to perform a task, it is simply a mechanism for adjusting the parameters of the software to improve the quality of the result. The software itself does not change or evolve as such. Think about a car engine - you can tune it to improve its performance, but it is still built for a specific job and can do only that job. What AI in this context is is simply a process (which ultimately - in this case - boils down to a mathematical process for moving in the direction of steepest ascent on a multidimensional plane) for automated tuning.
To put it another way - this is a process where, given a mathematical function which has a bunch of different variables, you can find the combination of those variables that allows you to produce the highest possible output (or, at least, to do your best). It still takes a human to decide what function needs to be maximised, to write the software that performs the task that is being measured and to come up with the process for trying to find the maximal value.
(edited 9 years ago)
This isn't the Matrix guys, calm down
If you had done a couple of a.i modules as part of a cs degree you'll stop worrying.
Nearest thing we got to something we might recognise as remotely intelligent are program's that learn by tweaking behaviour in response to feedback. But you have to tell it very precisely what to look for, how to evaluate the feedback, what to change etc. we are nowhere near any doomsday scenarios.
Robots are just too limited to be a significant threat to jobs tbh.
Nearest thing we got to something we might recognise as remotely intelligent are program's that learn by tweaking behaviour in response to feedback. But you have to tell it very precisely what to look for, how to evaluate the feedback, what to change etc. we are nowhere near any doomsday scenarios.
Robots are just too limited to be a significant threat to jobs tbh.
A point to remember in the debate is that before, 'robots' were only replacing physical labour but more recently, with large developments in AI, computers are able to program themselves to a certain extent and can (for example) drive us around (the self driving cars) whereas previously people would need to have the 'skill' to drive. How are ex-taxidrivers going to feed themselves without money? Even white collar jobs, computers are now able to do so much number crunching and even can now write quarterly reports and similar. There are also web applications now that can be used instead of local GPs and doctors (reducing (not eliminating) the need for doctors and GPs). There are so many other examples...
The idea of 'robots' doing everything for us whilst we kick our feet up is a complete fallacy surely. Large business owners will replace their employees with robots and everyone else will be unemployable and without jobs!
The idea of 'robots' doing everything for us whilst we kick our feet up is a complete fallacy surely. Large business owners will replace their employees with robots and everyone else will be unemployable and without jobs!
I think that the idea of not working and just living without money is impossible. People want to rule and be better than others so there will always be someone who will try to have more, even if it means bad acts. So I think it is not possible that we will have one day an equal world when nobody is working.
Thanks for a bit of explanation. I am not studying Computer Science so I do not know a lot about it. Your are right, this is a very complex and I know that it requires much more than we have achieved to reach some very good level of AI but still I find it interesting topic. Years ago nobody would think seriously about the idea and now we have rapid growth. Due to this and the internet we have the decline in the industry of shops in the city centres for the first time in the history. I look forward to see what the future brings.
Thanks for a bit of explanation. I am not studying Computer Science so I do not know a lot about it. Your are right, this is a very complex and I know that it requires much more than we have achieved to reach some very good level of AI but still I find it interesting topic. Years ago nobody would think seriously about the idea and now we have rapid growth. Due to this and the internet we have the decline in the industry of shops in the city centres for the first time in the history. I look forward to see what the future brings.
Humans used to have to provide transportation, too, before domestication of animals like horses. They carry rich people around, and they carry stuff around.
Before calculators, they had human calculators that basically do what calculators do today.
Before plumbing, people had to carry water from water sources every day, and carry poo somewhere else every day (or maybe less often?).
Before computers, we needed switchboard operators to connect calls.
Before radio, someone has to sing whenever anyone wants to listen to music.
Before production lines, people built cars and just about anything by hand.
How is the unemployment rate still less than 10%?
Before calculators, they had human calculators that basically do what calculators do today.
Before plumbing, people had to carry water from water sources every day, and carry poo somewhere else every day (or maybe less often?).
Before computers, we needed switchboard operators to connect calls.
Before radio, someone has to sing whenever anyone wants to listen to music.
Before production lines, people built cars and just about anything by hand.
How is the unemployment rate still less than 10%?
The vast majority of people who come out with this stuff are eccentrics in their field who are trying to come across as visionaries. They are often older people from the field who are making a final prediction, that if comes true, will cement their legacy once they've passed on.
I studied Artificial Intelligence modules at university and I can assure you that whilst they are capable of doing some rather extraordinary things the chances of computers becoming 'fully aware' to the level required to be a threat to us is minimal, if not non existent, as it currently stands.
The only way I can see robots ever becoming a threat is through them becoming more like us. They will need to be wired and programmed to think like us and it is only at that point that they may deem us disposable and attack us. It would be our own downfall. However, that is unlikely to happen due to limitations and lack of understanding being the main one. To create robots that are like us we need to understand us and of course our understanding of the mind is limited by the field of biology. We don't know nearly enough about ourselves to make robots think, reason or act in the way we do. It may not even be possible. I highly doubt it is.
Artificial Intelligence is one of those fields where the media get carried away due to their lack of understanding when it comes to technology. For those of us that know the reality, it does provide us with a good laugh however when we get to read these articles such as, 'Will robots take over the world?'.
I studied Artificial Intelligence modules at university and I can assure you that whilst they are capable of doing some rather extraordinary things the chances of computers becoming 'fully aware' to the level required to be a threat to us is minimal, if not non existent, as it currently stands.
The only way I can see robots ever becoming a threat is through them becoming more like us. They will need to be wired and programmed to think like us and it is only at that point that they may deem us disposable and attack us. It would be our own downfall. However, that is unlikely to happen due to limitations and lack of understanding being the main one. To create robots that are like us we need to understand us and of course our understanding of the mind is limited by the field of biology. We don't know nearly enough about ourselves to make robots think, reason or act in the way we do. It may not even be possible. I highly doubt it is.
Artificial Intelligence is one of those fields where the media get carried away due to their lack of understanding when it comes to technology. For those of us that know the reality, it does provide us with a good laugh however when we get to read these articles such as, 'Will robots take over the world?'.
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