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Reply 20
Pretty Boy Floyd
She's at Cambridge. It's very 'get-able'.


Well that is contentious.

I can think of the Bar, and Investment Banking off the top of my head as alternative career options that pay better than solicitors firms at some point. However, the Bar is difficult to get into even if you are Oxbridge...from a couple of wannabe-barristers I've met, I hear it's practically impossible to get a pupillage at a decent Chambers unless you have a First + stellar ECs. And it's ridiculously hard to get a first at Cam. As for Investment Banking - certainly it's get-able, but I know so many people who've been turned down for IB internships at Oxbridge simply because they didn't do the research etc. I think going to Cambridge might get you on many a shortlist for jobs, but the rest you have to do yourself. Possibly consultancy/accountancy pays well but I think that's on a similar level to the law? Correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe the Civil Service offers better overall renumeration in terms of hours/quality of work etc. I've done my research into various career options, and I happen to think that the FastTrack scheme is very underrated in terms of (a) quality of training and (b) renumeration. But it certainly does not offer the best graduate starting salary. Perhaps the promotions are quicker or easier - I don't know.

It does depend on whether we are talking graduate starting salary, or how far up the tree you will progress afterwards. Some Oxbridge people just seem to move up in their field very quickly, but that's not necessarily because they are at Oxbridge, more that a lot of the ambitious/slave-hardworking type tend to go to Oxbridge... and hence become wealthy very rapidly due to their success in whatever field they choose.
Reply 21
shady lane
Umm...because you make stuff up and you claim things that aren't true. To say "law pays a lot less than other graduate careers I considered" is patently untrue, unless you were considering drug running or high-class prostitution. Given that this is a "legal careers" subforum, I think correcting your misrepresentation of legal salaries is valid.


It is true. They don't throw bonuses of hundreds of thousands of pounds at you in law firms the same as they do in banks. I'm not talking about starting salary, that's a couple of years of wages as compared to the other 40 years you'll be working in a place.
It's cuz she's an IBer.. who likes to stick her nose into other sub-forums to spread the joy. I love TSR.
I'm going into IB. I am not a banker by any stretch of the imagination. I considered law but realized that I could do the same kind of work at a bank and not have to do a degree I'd find boring. Corporate lawyers work like dogs, and at the entry level it is really quite bad. Going home at midnight every night isn't really my cup of tea. It seems that even you have realized this, since you're going to PwC with a 1st and distinction in your law degrees!

Anyway, puppy isn't a law student and doesn't actually seem to know much about it, other than what she has seen at recruiting events at her uni.
Reply 24
shady lane
I'm going into IB. I am not a banker by any stretch of the imagination. I considered law but realized that I could do the same kind of work at a bank and not have to do a degree I'd find boring. Corporate lawyers work like dogs, and at the entry level it is really quite bad. Going home at midnight every night isn't really my cup of tea. It seems that even you have realized this, since you're going to PwC with a 1st and distinction in your law degrees!

Anyway, puppy isn't a law student and doesn't actually seem to know much about it, other than what she has seen at recruiting events at her uni.


What are you hoping to do at an IB?
And you think you won't be going home at midnight every night in IB? They work the worst hours of all by all acconts. I know a substantial number of people who interned with/are going to work for IBs and they all say that the hours are absolutely hideous.

I suppose it depends on the department though. My friends seem to all be going into the hardcore ones.
Reply 26
no.2
Hi there,

Basically ive been interested in becoming a lawyer for a few years now, but lately people I know who are lawyers and own their own firms are saying it will be quite hard to make major cash for new lawyers in the near future. In your opinion is this true?
I do like the idea of being a lawyer but i shall admit high wages is a big incentive for me. What areas of law will continue (say 10 yrs+) pay the a lot in terms of wages? (im doing my AS levels)


I think the legal profession in the UK has gone the same way as it has in the US - a few (very few) making the big big money working for large city firms in very specialized areas and thousands and thousands of "ham n eggs" lawyers scraping by with the odd "dog bite" or fencing dispute case before they eventually jack it in and become realtors.

Sad but true - the market is saturated and unless you are a very capable and specialized individual then money shouldn't be your main motivation.
I think you exaggerate the lower end of the spectrum somewhat.
Reply 28
Lewisy-boy
I think you exaggerate the lower end of the spectrum somewhat.


No. Actually I know a few lawyers here in the US that no longer practice law - there's just not enough work for them and many of them really do struggle - the odd divorce here and there and that's about it. I have one friend who jacked it to become a realtor and another who jacked to run an adoption agency.

Bear in mind that there are a MILLION qualified lawyers in the US and only about half that number (529,190 as of May 2005) are in practice and you get the picture.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes231011.htm
Reply 29
Howard
I think the legal profession in the UK has gone the same way as it has in the US - a few (very few) making the big big money working for large city firms in very specialized areas and thousands and thousands of "ham n eggs" lawyers scraping by with the odd "dog bite" or fencing dispute case before they eventually jack it in and become realtors.

Sad but true - the market is saturated and unless you are a very capable and specialized individual then money shouldn't be your main motivation.


What on earth do you base this on?
Reply 30
chalks
What on earth do you base this on?


Knowledge.
Reply 31
Gained from where exactly?

Do you not think that the "large City firms" you alude to might mean that there are actually hundreds (if not thousands) of jobs for lawyers in areas other than "ham n eggs" work?
Exactly... the lawyers you are referring to are the high street style lawyers. Sorry but I just cannot accept your contentions as relevant to the UK, or even the USA even though I have no express knowledge. Admittedly there will be plenty of qualified lawyers, many of whom will not be in practise at present but I doubt many of them left because they could not subsist.

Even high street solicitors in towns do OK for themselves. Compared to the average wage in the local area I mean.
Reply 33
chalks
Gained from where exactly?

Do you not think that the "large City firms" you alude to might mean that there are actually hundreds (if not thousands) of jobs for lawyers in areas other than "ham n eggs" work?


I'm sure they do provide jobs for hundreds if not thousands of lawyers. But, in the final analysis I'm sure you will agree that there are many more high street solicitors in the UK on about $35k a year than there are big firm lawyers like yourself jet setting around the globe. That's all I'm stating - it's hardly news.
Ever think that maybe the people who knew who practised law just weren't very good and never really cut out for it in the first place?
Reply 35
Lewisy-boy
Even high street solicitors in towns do OK for themselves. Compared to the average wage in the local area I mean.


Yes, they do "OK for themselves" compared to the average wage in the local area. That's not saying much. What does an average high street solicitor make these days - not talking about a Partner with his own business - but the common Joe - 30/40k? Nothing to sing about is it?
Reply 36
Lewisy-boy
Ever think that maybe the people who knew who practised law just weren't very good and never really cut out for it in the first place?


Well, that's speculative. They must have been smart enough to get through a four year JD and then sit the state bar.
Reply 37
Howard
I'm sure they do provide jobs for hundreds if not thousands of lawyers. But, in the final analysis I'm sure you will agree that there are many more high street solicitors in the UK on about $35k a year than there are big firm lawyers like yourself jet setting around the globe. That's all I'm stating - it's hardly news.


No, I don't agree. The reality is that the largest firms employ a huge number of people which make up a disproprotionately large part of the profession. The firm ranked No. 100 by Legal 500 (Withers) still has 200 fee-earners. Number 78 (Bevan Brittan) has over 300. If you extrapolate those numbers ery roughly, it works out that the top 200 firms might account for nearly half the profession of 120,000 (or so) solicitors. The wages at those top 200 firms will be good. So it simply doesn't make sense to say that those a few top dogs on big money but everyone else is on 35K.
Being smart enough to get through a degree/bar exam is not the same as being practically good at being a lawyer. Other skills are needed, which I'm sure is self-evident and these cannot be tested until you actually turn your hand to being a lawyer. I'm by no means asserting that I will have it or whatever, just saying that until you actually try you can't know.

Further, they may have got through the JD/state bar but if they were low end family lawyers they can't exactly have aced it from a top law school. No offence like, but I can see why people would want to go into some lower areas of law for personal reasons but family... why would you want to have bickering spouses in front of you every day and kids trying to emancipate themselves, unless of course you were like doing it for celebs and getting decent returns from it.

As chalks said above, clearly the number in the UK at least, do not match your estimations. Bear in mind chalks that when he said 35/40k he was also talking in USD so in current market conditions that's like 20/23k GBP. Hardly any solicitors will be on that little.
Reply 39
Lewisy-boy
Being smart enough to get through a degree/bar exam is not the same as being practically good at being a lawyer. Other skills are needed, which I'm sure is self-evident and these cannot be tested until you actually turn your hand to being a lawyer. I'm by no means asserting that I will have it or whatever, just saying that until you actually try you can't know.

Further, they may have got through the JD/state bar but if they were low end family lawyers they can't exactly have aced it from a top law school. No offence like, but I can see why people would want to go into some lower areas of law for personal reasons but family... why would you want to have bickering spouses in front of you every day and kids trying to emancipate themselves, unless of course you were like doing it for celebs and getting decent returns from it.

As chalks said above, clearly the number in the UK at least, do not match your estimations. Bear in mind chalks that when he said 35/40k he was also talking in USD so in current market conditions that's like 20/23k GBP. Hardly any solicitors will be on that little.


Actually, I assume Howard meant 35K sterling. If he's in the US then, like me, he doesn't have a sterling symbol on his keyboard....

As for figures, there's actually only 105,000 solicitors with practising certificates. Of those, 80,500 are in private practice. Interestingly, only 1.3% of firms have 26 or more partners. Yet those few firms employ 39% of those practising solicitors. Kinda backs up my original argument I reckon.

Source: http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/secure/file/160453/e:/teamsite-deployed/documents//templatedata/Publications/Research%20Publications/Documents/keyfactsforweb06.pdf

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