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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    One for you here queen-bee; may have met these chaps at one of your pro-Palestine events at Kings. Cultural enrichment ftw :borat:
    I think I left uni,the same year these guy started their course and they were located at strand campus if they were studying maths or physics. They're tarnishing KCL! Argh! Wasn't there a similar situation at UCL,and their ISOC? The delta airline bomber kid,whose plot was foiled. I did meet a lot of friendly fellow KCL students at the free Palestine events the uni held but I didn't expect anything extreme was going on behind the scenes :dontknow:
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I think I left uni,the same year these guy started their course and they were located at strand campus if they were studying maths or physics. They're tarnishing KCL! Argh! Wasn't there a similar situation at UCL,and their ISOC? The delta airline bomber kid,whose plot was foiled. I did meet a lot of friendly fellow KCL students at the free Palestine events the uni held but I didn't expect anything extreme was going on behind the scenes :dontknow:
    if you asked my personal op, i would always be suspicious of someone that joins an Isoc - they are generaly very self-promoting and also political groups that enjoy preaching to each other and bad mouthing anyone else. perfect for attracting these sort of nutjobs

    i think if you are genuinally religious and committed to your beleifs and emotionally sound, you dont need to braodcast the fact every day or seek validation form likeminded individuals
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    if you asked my personal op, i would always be suspicious of someone that joins an Isoc - they are generaly very self-promoting and also political groups that enjoy preaching to each other and bad mouthing anyone else. perfect for attracting these sort of nutjobs

    i think if you are genuinally religious and committed to your beleifs and emotionally sound, you dont need to braodcast the fact every day or seek validation form likeminded individuals
    I agree but you wouldn't necessarily think anything extreme is going on when you hear of Isoc at British universities,you would think it's just Muslim students getting together to talk about their faith,raise money for charity and promote certain non violent events,I think the cases mentioned like the one in this thread are very rare or maybe not?
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    anyway Daesh aren't really Muslims, they only think they are
    Yeah, not true Muslims are dying for not true Islam on battlefields. Error in self-identification. How sad. :cool:
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    Just to make it clear. Christians follow the teachings of Christ.

    If Christ isn't evident in their lives then they are not Christians.
    Disappointing Racoon - you are not "qualified" to say who's a Christian or not, surely.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    you wouldn't necessarily think anything extreme is going on .. would think it's just Muslim students getting together to talk about their faith
    Not convinced you understand their faith, and how seriously many of them take it all (including the violent/oppressive commandments) vs. the unique set of sociological challenges they face

    I think the cases mentioned like the one in this thread are very rare or maybe not?
    Active plots, mercifully rare, at present, for sure
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Not convinced you understand their faith, and how seriously many of them take it all (including the violent/oppressive commandments) vs. the unique set of sociological challenges they face

    Active plots, mercifully rare, at present, for sure
    Perhaps,most of my Muslim friends seem just fine to me :dontknow:
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    What do you expect. Most Muslims are stuck in the middle ages culturally - they are barbarians the lot of them
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    You have no argument, so have to resort to memes?

    Okay
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    Really not surprised by this. The Islamic Societies at some of the London universities are scary!
    You say it like the societies alone are a problem? Problem is faaaaar wider than that.
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    Terrorism has no religion! The IRA were christians, anyway Daesh aren't really Muslims, they only think they are

    (Just like protestants aren't catholic, and catholics aren't protestant, even though they follow the same book, the interpretations are different)



    They probably faced a lot of Islamophobia and racism too. Don't try and tell me that these people had the same privileges as their white counterparts
    So much bias. What privileges do you mean?
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Disappointing Racoon - you are not "qualified" to say who's a Christian or not, surely.

    Genuinely sorry you find this disappointing.

    I stand by what I said though "If Christ isn't evident in their lives then they are not Christians". I think there's truth in that, would you disagree?


    John 13 v 35 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

    1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death....

    1 John 4:20 We love, because He first loved us. If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Perhaps,most of my Muslim friends seem just fine to me :dontknow:
    1) We both know that's not true, there are elements of the behaviour of most of them that are shall we say 'not neutral' and somewhat dubious

    2) You mix with a certain class of people. The majority of Muslims in the UK are not from that sort of (comfortable/enlightened) background, including those who make it into KCL. Unfortunately Blair et al. encouraged millions of Muslims to emigrate from relatively backwards regions

    3) Outward appearances can be deceptive, and it doesn't take much to tip e.g. a young, hot headed, placeless, sexually frustrated/starved person who finds it difficult to establish common ground with the host population of disparate 'infidels' vs. a strong tribal/civilisational affinity with 'brothers and sisters' who (s)he sees suffering - apparently as a direct consequence of the actions of the infidels, who may have been subject to discrimination, may not feel rewarded in life, and may be drawn to the seemingly rich and righteous glamorised propaganda of groups like ISIS
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    1) We both know that's not true, there are elements of the behaviour of most of them that are shall we say 'not neutral' and somewhat dubious

    2) You mix with a certain class of people. The majority of Muslims in the UK are not from that sort of (comfortable/enlightened) background, including those who make it into KCL. Unfortunately Blair et al. encouraged millions of Muslims to emigrate from relatively backwards regions

    3) Outward appearances can be deceptive, and it doesn't take much to tip e.g. a young, hot headed, placeless, sexually frustrated/starved person who finds it difficult to establish common ground with the host population of disparate 'infidels' vs. a strong tribal/civilisational affinity with 'brothers and sisters' who (s)he sees suffering - apparently as a direct consequence of the actions of the infidels, who may have been subject to discrimination, may not feel rewarded in life, and may be drawn to the seemingly rich and righteous glamorised propaganda of groups like ISIS
    What do you mean by dubious behaviour?

    Well,I would think that those who grew up in the UK and studied at our educational institutions are open minded and reject being radicalised. They enjoy the freedoms that we have in the UK,surely?

    I agree with you last point. If you've seen the ISIS adverts,we can see why. They glamourise this sort of thing and make themselves look masculine and strong and it attracts certain type of young people who feel withdrawn from society or feel like they been discriminated against in some way. We really should also be doing more to tackle home grown terrorism. A lot more! By,why do people always suggest these kids going off to join Isis do it because they're sex starved?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    What do you mean by dubious behaviour?
    Anything that seems unbalanced/inequitable, abnormal, uncomfortable or unsettling to you and/or to British citizens more generally

    I would think that those who grew up in the UK and studied at our educational institutions are open minded and reject being radicalised
    You can be a well educated, open minded radical. Heck, I'm probably regarded as a radical myself. The more a Muslim learns of Islamic orthodoxy a la Koran/Hadiths and about the (policies/actions of) Anglo-American establishment, and the more one is exposed to Western (mal)culture, the more they are somewhat naturally inclined to view the West as malevolent and their religious duty, Jihad, as akin to that espoused by the likes of ISIS. If the tables were turned, can we seriously say that we would certainly not form similar views? We cannot

    They enjoy the freedoms that we have in the UK, surely?
    The 'lucky' (subjective) few do. Many of the rest feel lost, hence a steady stream of youngsters ripe for radicalisation. We've touched on this in prior conversations about mixed heritage and loss of sense of self/personal identity a la politics of identity. Being as c.50% of male Muslims are economically inactive, and they often live in relatively closed societies, forbidden from enjoying the vices of the kafir, one must conclude that their enjoyment of our freedoms is rather limited indeed

    it attracts certain type of young people who feel withdrawn from society or feel like they been discriminated against in some way
    Indeed so, as per the above

    We really should also be doing more to tackle home grown terrorism. A lot more!
    Maajid Nawaz et al. would like us to "control the narrative", but that's very paternalistic, and difficult to achieve, across the board, in a meaningful sense (particularly against the grain of the above understandable hangups)

    why do people always suggest these kids going off to join Isis do it because they're sex starved?
    It's an important part of understanding the psychological and psychosocial factors often at play. Young guys are full of sexual, egotistical, and emotional energy. If they cannot find release/purpose/validation here is it so surprising that they should look elsewhere and be seduced by promise of an arranged bride, a 'fantastic' cause, and the joys of Islamic brotherhood and prospect of a virtuous death a la martyrdom in the name of Allah? It's very potent. Indeed, if you watch the final moments of the Paris Porte de Vincennes supermarket siege, you can see just how potent it is when, instead of massacring hostages, or really trying to maximise police casualties, Amedy Coulibaly opted to rush the infidels for extra martyr points (knowing he would be met by a wall of bullets)
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Disappointing Racoon - you are not "qualified" to say who's a Christian or not, surely.
    Christian literally means "follower of Christ", I agree with Racoon on this. A person who lives their life by the principles taught by Jesus, or tries to, would be a Christian. It's literally in the name.

    Islam means surrender/submission to Allah....
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    (Original post by le_darkhorse)
    You say it like the societies alone are a problem? Problem is faaaaar wider than that.
    Far too presumptuous. Making an anecdotal observation about the ISocs in London does not mean I have a view on the wider issues.
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    (Original post by leavingthecity)
    Christian literally means "follower of Christ", I agree with Racoon on this. A person who lives their life by the principles taught by Jesus, or tries to, would be a Christian. It's literally in the name.

    Islam means surrender/submission to Allah....
    Christian is someone who identifies as Christian - end of. It's non of your or anyone else's business apart from that.

    And why is it "surrender/submission"? Because it's different to your own beliefs?
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    Incidents like this will only become more common as Islam continues to grow in the UK.
    Our tolerant society actively encourages insular Islamic communities to develop and grow. Yet it is these type of closed-off communities that provide the fertile grounds for extremism.

    England in particular is setting itself up for some dangerous times ahead. We seem to be turning a blind eye to the poorly integrated Islamic communities that have developed over recent years. Instead we're just appeasing such groups by accommodating their cultural and religious practices regardless of how incompatible they may be. And the liberals are celebrating this growth - despite the fact that the religion practiced by these communities also happens to be the same religion underpinning our biggest global terror threat.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Christian is someone who identifies as Christian - end of. It's non of your or anyone else's business apart from that.

    And why is it "surrender/submission"? Because it's different to your own beliefs?
    No, to repeat myself; I have given you the literal meanings of the words 'Christian' and 'Islam'. 'Muslim' means one who submits to Allah.

    Now, after having disagreed with Racoon on a thousand things (again, a couple of mouse clicks and you could have used my previous posts to answer your own question; I am an atheist, as could you have understood that the definition I give of Islam is a translation from Arabic, not in fact, just whatever I want it to be) I was able to pick up on a subtlety in Racoon's point; that the radicalisation of these Isoc members may have something to do with the murder and intolerance Muhammad advocated, whereas in the Christian religion, to be a Christian means to be encouraged (key word there, no I'm not the judge of anyone's walk with Christ, apparently neither are they, God is their judge as says the bible at the end of the day) to live as Christ lived. He did not incite hatred of other races or violence against unbelievers.
 
 
 
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