MMath or BSC? Manchester (UoM)

OP

I am seeking second opinions as to which course I should do (thinking of switching course). If I want to switch courses, should I do it like now or wait till my course starts then switch?

In general, which course will present me wider options after I graduate, and is "better" (very subjective i know..) in general, in terms of subjects covered etc.. Which one would you choose?
I would prefer to go into banking/IB/insurance/financial markets etc.. after i graduate. What other job prospects do I have with either degree? I get the impression the maths with finance is a bit more towards accountancy and I dont want to go into accountancy too much!

Last, but not least, please post your opinions on this thread! Thanks
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11628736

Maths with finance
Http://www.maths.manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/ugstudies/programmes/maths-with-finance.html

Maths with financial mathematics
http://www.maths.manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/ugstudies/programmes/maths-with-financial-maths.html

Reply 2

OP

Thinking of going to Southampton or Manchester for Mathematics and Finance Mathematics with Financial Mathematics respectively. It is for my firm choice

Southampton is ABB and Manchester is AAB.

Which one is better? In terms of career prospects, overall reputation, maths department etc...

Reply 3

Fillette

14

Pretty much the same reputation wise. Manchester go on and on about how their degrees ensure massive scope in the employment market.
Also, it's about whether you care about having social life, as Manchester is a massive vibrant city with lots to do- and Southampton, well it sin't really. I can't really talk about Maths Departments I'm afraid- as I applied to do a History degree!

Reply 4

The_Goose

18

southampton is higher on the leagues tables but then i ve onyl looked at one tabel to give you that info. Visit both, theres ot much in it

Reply 5

Can't comment on math's department, but all other things equal, I would chose Manchester's overall reputation over Southampton's.

With regards to career prospects, my thoughts are, do as much Maths as possible, because applying it to finance is the easy part. I haven't looked at the two course, but I also think it's important what modules you do. For going into finance, I am going to be doing pretty much all stats modules (a large part of financial maths is stochastic calculus/processes, and you need a large understanding of markov chains to study this), and as many pure modules as possible. The things I haven't decided yet, are whether to do MMath (depends on what modules are available at the time, I think they are highly subject to change), and whether to do a bit of applied maths (physic-sy) because I know PDE's come up in financial maths quite a bit, and they are taught in second year at nottingham in the form of heat equations I believe.

So me personally, I would not go for Maths with finance because IMO you are wasting modules by studying things like Accounting in that much detail. I think you should decide whether you want to do masters nearer the time, most universities expect you to do this anyway. Sorry if you've said this but if you've already applied to do the MMath it's easy to switch back and as long as you get probably a 2.i you'll be able to do both, however if you have applied for the Bsc, it's a bit harder to switch (although I'm not sure if that's from a funding perspective or from gaining admission).

No one can really say whats necessary to get into finance, could you be more specific in reference to what kind of position in a bank?

Reply 6

.ACS.

19

Either do Mathematics or Mathematics with Financial Mathematics... I think it's a bit pointless in doing the Mathematics with Finance. Also, apply for the four year MMath course and if you decide later on you only want to do a BSc, then you can easily switch, although it will be difficult to go from BSc to MMath as for some reason LEAs aren't too keen.

Reply 7

OP

Thanks for all ur replies, really helpful. Will reply in more detail but just to let u guys know I applied for Bsc instead of MMath btw.

.ACS. - you said "Either do Mathematics or Mathematics with Financial Mathematics... "
Could you care to elaborate? As adthegreat said "With regards to career prospects, my thoughts are, do as much Maths as possible, because applying it to finance is the easy part."

So my question is, should I now do the pure Mathematics (G100/G103) or Mathematics with Financial mathematics?

Also, is it possible for me to switch from Bsc to MMath easily now? Or would it be tougher?

last thing, if I want to switch the courses at manchester, should I just email them now and tell them? (to switch courses all I have to do is email them right?) or wait till I start uni & then tell them?

Reply 8

It will be easier to switch now between Bsc and MMath because you (presumably) haven't completed your student finance stuff. If you've started it, you can probably change it relatively easily, but once it's all gone through is when it starts getting a bit difficult.

I stress that my point of view is just that - my own. To justify what I said, when looking at high level economics and financial mathematics journals you tend to see alot of very high level pure mathematics. Similarly, if you look at high level statistics, it's applied pure maths, so my theory is that the limiting factor in people's finance knowledge is pure mathematics study, so i'll do as much as possible, because you can learn job specific applications when you're on the job.

So that's why I'm doing G100 and not financial maths or somesuch.

Reply 9

OP

thank you for your reply! of course, its your opinion, and im very grateful you are telling me what you really think. :smile:

i have been looking thru some stuff, and i really dont understand what is operation research...
"Mathematics, Statistics and Operational Research" at manchester. What are your opinions on operational research maths courses?

Also, is it really nessicary to do MMaths or is Bsc adequetate enough to go start work in the financial sector?

Reply 10

Operational resesrch looks pretty good, seems to be about modelling which is useful, although I couldn't find the course on Manchester's website.

What sort of area are looking at goin into in finance? If it's structuring, you're pretty much going to need a PhD in Maths specialising in something financial to get the best jobs, but if it's trading or risk, then a plain old Bsc will be fine as long as it's got a high quant aspect. There's no use splitting hairs over Maths vs Maths with stats when they let in physicists and economists, your degree choice won't be holding you back, if anything is, it'll be other experience and how you come across in interviews, how they see UoM on their scale etc. Essentially degrees show 'what you can do' rather than tran you to do your job. Every company will train their employees to the way they want to do things, by having a 2.i in Quant degree they are relatively certain that you will able to take the training and apply it to the job. The massive jump comes when you start looking at structuring jobs which are often about research and making new models to make money, and they require very high levels of maths, and the ability to research for extended periods of time independantly. See this thread for more info on that.

Reply 11

OP

hi, thanks for ur help. what do you mean like structuring?

like in the other thread you mentioned, i just want to get a really high financial ranking job. so would a bsc be good enough?

also, when you mean quant degree, what kind of degrees are quantitative? like a pure g100 maths?

srry for being really cheeky and asking alot of questions :biggrin:

, but, what do you think of doing a pure maths degree (g100/g103) and then doing a masters in quantitative finance or financial mathematics at like city uni or lse?

so finally, now that you have given me so much useful information today, what are your opinions on doing a pure mathematics degree (g100) vs a maths with finance or maths with financial mathematics?

just out of curiosity, what do you plan to do after u graduate with ur g100 degreee? :smile:

Reply 12

I actually took the MMath at Manchester, and I graduated last year with a result well above the 70% required for a first. The course is great, I really enjoyed it, some lecturers aren't great, but most are really good, especially the guys who do the financial mathematics courses. Also the social aspect of Manchester is great though.

I too, am looking to pursue a career in the financial sector, however I haven't got anywhere with securing a job. I haven't even got past the first stage of the recruitment process. It hasn't got anything to do with my A-levels, I got 4As, so whether my lack of success is to do with a lack of ECs, relevant work experience or due to Manchester not being a target university, I'm not sure. If I were you, I would try to go to a target university such as LSE or Oxbridge, it'll be much easier to secure a good job in the future.

Reply 13

.ACS.

19

johnheyes91

.ACS. - you said "Either do Mathematics or Mathematics with Financial Mathematics... "
Could you care to elaborate? As adthegreat said "With regards to career prospects, my thoughts are, do as much Maths as possible, because applying it to finance is the easy part."

At Manchester, it doesn't really matter whether you do Mathematics or Mathematics with Financial Mathematics; the former gives you greatest flexibility whereas the latter ensure you study mathematical modules which are related to finance (not necessarily applied directly to finance, but related to).

johnheyes91

So my question is, should I now do the pure Mathematics (G100/G103) or Mathematics with Financial mathematics?

This is really up to you... If it were me, I'd do BSc/MMath Mathematics as it allows more flexibility and maybe you decide certain modules related to financial mathematics aren't to your liking, yet you're pretty much stuck with them if you do Mathematics with Financial Mathematics.

Reply 14

If you plan on taking a masters in financial mathematics after you graduate, do the BSc. Doing the MMath, I did 3 of the 8 modules required for the Msc in mathematical finance, now you can do 4 of them, so there isn't much taking all 4 all of them in the MMath and then doing them again in another MSc course.

Reply 15

Here to look up areas of investment banking.

Depends, you wouldn't be able to get into structuring, but you can get into Trading and Sales with a Bsc in maths. However you need a killer application to get any 'high ranking position'.

Quant degrees are generally thought of as anything with a substantial mathematical element, eg Maths (G100/G103), Physics, Chemistry, Economics, and variations thereof like Maths with stats or Financial Maths for example.

I think it's a good idea, and one that I may pursue depending on how much it costs to do the masters, and if I get onto a grad program straight after uni in a role I would like.

As I've said, I'm doing G100 because I think that pure maths is the hardest part of mathematical finance and by learning alot of it I'll be in a better position than someone who has just learnt cherry picked bits of knowledge about finance, because if something new comes along they may be screwed, whereas if you fully understand what you are doing and more, you'll be more versatile to research developments.

I plan on trying to get into Trading or Risk Management possibly, but definately something financial with a very high quantitative element to it. Also if i excel at uni, I may consider a PhD.

Reply 16

To switch from the BSc to the MMath, all you need is 55% in your second year reults, which isn't too to achieve or attain high in the first semester exams in your third year. I only managed to get 48% in my second year due to illness, but I got 86% in the first semester in the third year, and there was no problem at all in switching from the BSc to the MMath. Also in the MMath course, only the third and fourth year results count towards the final mark, so it can cover up a bad second year result like it did to me.

Reply 17

RumpyPumpy

To switch from the BSc to the MMath, all you need is 55% in your second year reults, which isn't too to achieve or attain high in the first semester exams in your third year. I only managed to get 48% in my second year due to illness, but I got 86% in the first semester in the third year, and there was no problem at all in switching from the BSc to the MMath. Also in the MMath course, only the third and fourth year results count towards the final mark, so it can cover up a bad second year result like it did to me.

Were there any issues with funding, because from what I've heard that's the hard part? :p:

Reply 18

OP

thanks for all ur info guys, really appreciate all of it!! been really helpful!

RumpyPumpy

I actually took the MMath at Manchester, and I graduated last year with a result well above the 70% required for a first. The course is great, I really enjoyed it, some lecturers aren't great, but most are really good, especially the guys who do the financial mathematics courses. Also the social aspect of Manchester is great though.

I too, am looking to pursue a career in the financial sector, however I haven't got anywhere with securing a job. I haven't even got past the first stage of the recruitment process. It hasn't got anything to do with my A-levels, I got 4As, so whether my lack of success is to do with a lack of ECs, relevant work experience or due to Manchester not being a target university, I'm not sure. If I were you, I would try to go to a target university such as LSE or Oxbridge, it'll be much easier to secure a good job in the future.

thanks, i already applied for this year, so i cant apply for Lse or oxbridge.. :frown:

(too lazy in my AS's, which cost me the chances :frown:

)

anyways, ur the perfect person to ask! anyways, do you recommend me to do the maths and financial mathematics course at manchester? or the MMaths course?

btw, does the MMaths course at manchester provide you with adequete knowledge to securing a job in the financial sector?

finally, sorry for asking so many questions, but what can you tell me of manchester allowing me now to switch to maths and financial mathematics now? is it possible for me to switch after i start my course this september? or should i do it now? is it even possible at manchester/easily done?

thanks for all ur help guys.

Reply 19