premier league restarted with black lives matter on jersey and kneeling before KO

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GARLAND102
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The only things I kneel to are my Queen and my God
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IanDangerously
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It’s a marketing stunt. If it helps that section of the audience who support companies based on their displays of “ethics” to feel more connected to the league, watch more games, post more social interactions about the games etc then it’s perfectly fine.

Anything that grows the audience and keeps football strong can’t be a bad thing
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Hudds999
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Guess what? Racism still exists, you know what I’m absolutely staggered that racism still exists when multi-millionaire premier league footballers have black lives matter on the back of their shirt and they kneel at the start of the game. It’s almost like it’s just pointless virtue signalling which has done absolutely **** all to end racism. Keep politics away from football, don’t shove BLM down our throats when it’s clearly a Marxist, political uprising.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by HucktheForde)
Do you think that was necessary? I always thought BLM is an American thing.

I mean in the UK police rarely kill people.
It's not just an American thing, nor is it solely about police brutality - it's about systemic racism as a whole and the UK very much has a problem there. Particularly football - people will try to make excuses for how the bloke who flew a "white lives matter" banner over the ground last night doesn't represent football fans, but the truth of the matter is he does; it's not that long ago black players were regularly getting individual abuse from crowds with acts like bananas being thrown on the pitch. The incident that happened to Raheem Sterling last season at Chelsea shows it still happens now. I've been to several away games with Leicester and heard chants with racial slurs directed at the city's high Indian population, and most fans who've been to games have stories of hearing racist remarks. The name on the shirts and taking a knee doesn't resolve that, but it starts a conversation that is very much needed within the UK and within football as well
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PizzaMan2989
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(Original post by Hudds999)
Guess what? Racism still exists, you know what I’m absolutely staggered that racism still exists when multi-millionaire premier league footballers have black lives matter on the back of their shirt and they kneel at the start of the game. It’s almost like it’s just pointless virtue signalling which has done absolutely **** all to end racism. Keep politics away from football, don’t shove BLM down our throats when it’s clearly a Marxist, political uprising.
How can you keep politics away from football when racism is an issue within the sport itself?? Are you just going to turn a blind eye or what?? Or maybe it’s not as big an issue for you to care, idk
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Hudds999
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(Original post by PizzaMan2989)
How can you keep politics away from football when racism is an issue within the sport itself?? Are you just going to turn a blind eye or what?? Or maybe it’s not as big an issue for you to care, idk
Black footballers are extremely well represented in football. Every team has numerous black players, there really isn’t that big of an issue in football these days. Times have changed. Of course you’re going to get a few isolated incidents, there’s always going to be a few bad eggs in a crowd of 30000+. If someone was being racist at a football match, I’d report it. I would not turn a blind eye, what I’m saying though is that kneeling and having BLM on the back of the shirts has likely not done anything to solve racism. A racist guy isn’t just going to stop being racist because they had a little kneel at the start of the game, you can’t magically change how people think. It’s pointless.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Hudds999)
Black footballers are extremely well represented in football. Every team has numerous black players, there really isn’t that big of an issue in football these days. Times have changed. Of course you’re going to get a few isolated incidents, there’s always going to be a few bad eggs in a crowd of 30000+. If someone was being racist at a football match, I’d report it. I would not turn a blind eye, what I’m saying though is that kneeling and having BLM on the back of the shirts has likely not done anything to solve racism. A racist guy isn’t just going to stop being racist because they had a little kneel at the start of the game, you can’t magically change how people think. It’s pointless.
Having black players in a team doesn't immediately equate to reduced racism.

Unless I'm mistaken, players kneeling and having BLM on their shirts has never been and is not currently presented as a solution to racism. I would be interested to see any source that suggests otherwise. Actions like these are not taken to eliminate an issue, they're taken to raise its profile.
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Hudds999
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Having black players in a team doesn't immediately equate to reduced racism.

Unless I'm mistaken, players kneeling and having BLM on their shirts has never been and is not currently presented as a solution to racism. I would be interested to see any source that suggests otherwise. Actions like these are not taken to eliminate an issue, they're taken to raise its profile.
No it doesn’t, but come on it’s not nearly as racist as people make it out to be. I’ve been watching Huddersfield for 10-15 years and I’ve never ever heard racism ever. I’ve been to many away games too. I’ve heard every other phobia under the sun, but that’s for another time.

I think people are very aware of what’s going on with racism, I really don’t think kneeling and having BLM on the back of the shirt is going to do anything. That’s just my opinion, plus I struggle to see who’s who as there are no names on the back 😂.
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quasa
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(Original post by HucktheForde)
Do you think that was necessary? I always thought BLM is an American thing.

I mean in the UK police rarely kill people.
racial discrimination exists in the UK, although from personal experience, brown people tend to be as affected as black people (I have had a few run ins with police despite being a health professional with a clean enhanced DBS). it is worse however at work and schools (even the NHS, or healthcare providers arent a safe haven from racism).
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04MR17
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(Original post by Hudds999)
No it doesn’t, but come on it’s not nearly as racist as people make it out to be. I’ve been watching Huddersfield for 10-15 years and I’ve never ever heard racism ever. I’ve been to many away games too. I’ve heard every other phobia under the sun, but that’s for another time.

I think people are very aware of what’s going on with racism, I really don’t think kneeling and having BLM on the back of the shirt is going to do anything. That’s just my opinion, plus I struggle to see who’s who as there are no names on the back 😂.
Well I'm not quite sure exactly how racist "people make it out to be", but I can recall consistent news stories about racist comments from footballers themselves and from fans in most of the last 10 years.

I disagree, without survey data and some proper research I don't think it's fair to make conclusions about the general awareness the population has about issues of race. And by awareness I don't mean a knowledge that BLM protests are happening, but an understanding of the extent of racial discrimination that black people face on a day-to-day basis.

I think the names on the shirts and the kneeling is doing a very important thing, it's not allowing anyone watching a game of football to forget about the problem during those 90 mins, because the reminder is ever-present on the backs of every player.
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Zerforax
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(Original post by Hudds999)
Black footballers are extremely well represented in football. Every team has numerous black players, there really isn’t that big of an issue in football these days. Times have changed. Of course you’re going to get a few isolated incidents, there’s always going to be a few bad eggs in a crowd of 30000+. If someone was being racist at a football match, I’d report it. I would not turn a blind eye, what I’m saying though is that kneeling and having BLM on the back of the shirts has likely not done anything to solve racism. A racist guy isn’t just going to stop being racist because they had a little kneel at the start of the game, you can’t magically change how people think. It’s pointless.
Your first statement is wrong. Black footballers are well represented in playing numbers. Black and other ethnic minorities are not well represented in the rest of the footballing community - from coaches, to managers, to the board room etc.

Ignoring racism or pretending it doesn't happen in modern society also isn't going to change how people think. Footballers (rightly or wrongly) are obviously role models for a lot of young people and so they have more influence than you think. Even if you encourage one youngster to think twice before making or using a racist term means you're making a difference.
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Zerforax
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(Original post by Hudds999)
No it doesn’t, but come on it’s not nearly as racist as people make it out to be. I’ve been watching Huddersfield for 10-15 years and I’ve never ever heard racism ever. I’ve been to many away games too. I’ve heard every other phobia under the sun, but that’s for another time.

I think people are very aware of what’s going on with racism, I really don’t think kneeling and having BLM on the back of the shirt is going to do anything. That’s just my opinion, plus I struggle to see who’s who as there are no names on the back 😂.
White person doesn't hear or notice racism. Cool story bro - I'll alert the national press.

Why don't you try asking an ethnic minority who watches Huddersfield or lives in Huddersfield if they've ever noticed any racism. Their experience will be very different to yours.
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Hudds999
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(Original post by Zerforax)
Your first statement is wrong. Black footballers are well represented in playing numbers. Black and other ethnic minorities are not well represented in the rest of the footballing community - from coaches, to managers, to the board room etc.

Ignoring racism or pretending it doesn't happen in modern society also isn't going to change how people think. Footballers (rightly or wrongly) are obviously role models for a lot of young people and so they have more influence than you think. Even if you encourage one youngster to think twice before making or using a racist term means you're making a difference.
No you’re right, we should have quota systems. Absolutely ridiculous, people should be hired because of their skills and merit, not because of their race. People are just actively seeking out discrimination these days like honestly.

I’m not ignoring it, in fact I’ve said that there have been numerous racist incidents over the past couple years, but come on. There’s going to be a few bad eggs in a crowd of 40000, that’s just going to happen. Unfortunately that’s always going to happen, you can’t change how people think.

You’ve got a good point about youngsters actually, so thank you for raising that point.
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Zerforax
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(Original post by Hudds999)
No you’re right, we should have quota systems. Absolutely ridiculous, people should be hired because of their skills and merit, not because of their race. People are just actively seeking out discrimination these days like honestly.

I’m not ignoring it, in fact I’ve said that there have been numerous racist incidents over the past couple years, but come on. There’s going to be a few bad eggs in a crowd of 40000, that’s just going to happen. Unfortunately that’s always going to happen, you can’t change how people think.

You’ve got a good point about youngsters actually, so thank you for raising that point.
The quota system has flaws but when change is not coming from within then it's not the worst way to try and force some change. Once the doors open, more people will be treated fairly on skill and merit.

It's funny that you're against positive discrimination but instead hit the nail on the head as to why racism is bad. Why shouldn't a black person be given the same opportunity to be a manager at a top club is an obvious one and yet it doesn't happen.

Racism comes in many different forms. The easiest one is when someone is shouting racist terms at someone. But when a black person, who on skill and merit, should get the job but instead gets turned down in favour of a white candidate - because the hirer says "it just feels a better fit" - you don't think that's racism?

Well in that case, you continue to persevere until racism is stamped out or shunned by society as a whole. Of course you can change how people think or how they behave. You can draw a distinction between those who are actively racist and believe they are superior/others are inferior or different and those who might have racist behaviours because that is all they have seen around them and think that is normal or acceptable.

Racism is a learned behaviour - no one is born a racist. If you can learn racism, thenyou can learn how to be tolerate and fair to all people.

Black people aren't asking to be treated better or more postively than anyone else. They just wanted to be treated for what they are, just another human who probably has the same dreams and aspirations as the next person (regardless of colour).
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Hudds999
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(Original post by Zerforax)
The quota system has flaws but when change is not coming from within then it's not the worst way to try and force some change. Once the doors open, more people will be treated fairly on skill and merit.

It's funny that you're against positive discrimination but instead hit the nail on the head as to why racism is bad. Why shouldn't a black person be given the same opportunity to be a manager at a top club is an obvious one and yet it doesn't happen.

Racism comes in many different forms. The easiest one is when someone is shouting racist terms at someone. But when a black person, who on skill and merit, should get the job but instead gets turned down in favour of a white candidate - because the hirer says "it just feels a better fit" - you don't think that's racism?

Well in that case, you continue to persevere until racism is stamped out or shunned by society as a whole. Of course you can change how people think or how they behave. You can draw a distinction between those who are actively racist and believe they are superior/others are inferior or different and those who might have racist behaviours because that is all they have seen around them and think that is normal or acceptable.

Racism is a learned behaviour - no one is born a racist. If you can learn racism, thenyou can learn how to be tolerate and fair to all people.

Black people aren't asking to be treated better or more postively than anyone else. They just wanted to be treated for what they are, just another human who probably has the same dreams and aspirations as the next person (regardless of colour).
A quota system is never fair. Positive discrimination is not a good way of stamping out racism, surely positive discrimination is actually racist.

Big clubs are going to hire managers that have merit, that have experience, their race wouldn’t come into it at all. We have to look at the bottom if we want to change this, the internet says there are less black managers in the manager academy and we need to find out why this is. Positive discrimination is never the way to go, but instead solving issues from the bottom, we have to find out why there’s an under representation first of all, and tackle it from there.

Yes it does. You’re going to have to find an example of that happening, I’d love to hear it. I’m not saying it’s bull****, but still, find me an example of when that actually occurred.

You can change how youngsters can think sure, but if you think kneeling at the start of the game is going to cause a 40 year old male to do a complete u turn on his racist thoughts then you’re sadly mistaken I’m afraid.

Agreed.

Fair enough. Thank you for understanding and having a civil debate.
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04MR17
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This doesn't need to be personal folks.
Debate the point not the user.
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Zerforax
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(Original post by Hudds999)
A quota system is never fair. Positive discrimination is not a good way of stamping out racism, surely positive discrimination is actually racist.

Big clubs are going to hire managers that have merit, that have experience, their race wouldn’t come into it at all. We have to look at the bottom if we want to change this, the internet says there are less black managers in the manager academy and we need to find out why this is. Positive discrimination is never the way to go, but instead solving issues from the bottom, we have to find out why there’s an under representation first of all, and tackle it from there.

Yes it does. You’re going to have to find an example of that happening, I’d love to hear it. I’m not saying it’s bull****, but still, find me an example of when that actually occurred.

You can change how youngsters can think sure, but if you think kneeling at the start of the game is going to cause a 40 year old male to do a complete u turn on his racist thoughts then you’re sadly mistaken I’m afraid.

Agreed.

Fair enough. Thank you for understanding and having a civil debate.
Well I think in the ideal world, you would see a long term average which is similar to general population statistics. So if 20% of the general population are from ethnic minorities, you would want a broad number across society. Sure sometimes it may be 10% and sometimes it may be 30% but that would then be the individual merit of each candidate. But we don't live in an ideal world and certain corners of society are, outwardly or inwardly, racist and therefore sometimes a less ideal situation could be how you rectify the situation for the long term. The quota might be wrong but isn't living in a racist world also, if not moreso, wrong?

Haha well that is not true on manager appointments. You see plenty of managers, who have had footballing careers, being given opportunity without experience. In recent years we've seen Gerrard, Lampard, Gary Neville etc all be given manager roles at big clubs without prior managing experience.

A few black ex-players have said that they've found the door closed to trying to get manager jobs. Obviously they are not being treated the same.

Example of what happening? I'm not clear what part you are responding or refering to?

Well sometimes change has to be slow. If you can change the youngster to think differently, his dad may be the 40 year old who is the racist one. So you break the cycle by prompting change.

Let's also not ignore the fact that by all the players taking the knee, it has prompted discussion and debate (whether here or otherwise). That means there is attention being given to the fact that racism does or can exist. Ignoring the problem just feeds the ignorance and makes the problem grow.

Haha no problem and thank you for responding and engaging.
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IanDangerously
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Lancashire Police have issued a statement on Twitter regarding the “White Lives Matter” banner last night. They claim the matter was “investigated” and it was found that no criminal offence has been committed.

Im sure they tried really hard to find a law that makes it illegal to express an opinion and then realised there isn’t one. Looks like the people who got their feelings hurt will just have to suck it up and deal with it.
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difeo
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It's all a bit hollow isn't it. In a couple of years, these players will be off to play a world cup built on the deaths of thousands of slaves.
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