Breaking news...Oxford vaccine given go ahead

Original post by harrysbar

may book something in May, June, July and August too as back ups :colondollar:

I miss being able to go abroad :frown:

The prices for airfares here have tripled, assuming the flights are going at all, and we have to cough up $3k on return to go into managed isolation.. bloody price gouging :colonhash:

Reply 81

harrysbar

OP

Original post by Napp

I miss being able to go abroad :frown:

The prices for airfares here have tripled, assuming the flights are going at all, and we have to cough up $3k on return to go into managed isolation.. bloody price gouging :colonhash:

That's tough :frown:

These vaccines can't come soon enough for most people, especially the ones who like to travel outside of their own country

Reply 82

fallen_acorns

Original post by harrysbar

I'm booking a trip to Spain in April as a sign of my faith in 2021!

(its got free cancellation though :getmecoat:

)

Optimistic - but fair enough!

I'm planning a summer holiday with the logic that even if 2021 is as bad as 2020, clearly this virus struggled in the warmer months, so summer should be pretty open again.

Reply 83

harrysbar

OP

Original post by fallen_acorns

Optimistic - but fair enough!

I'm planning a summer holiday with the logic that even if 2021 is as bad as 2020, clearly this virus struggled in the warmer months, so summer should be pretty open again.

New Years Day is a perfect time to plan holidays :h:

Reply 84

Rakas21

Original post by Napp

I miss being able to go abroad :frown:

The prices for airfares here have tripled, assuming the flights are going at all, and we have to cough up $3k on return to go into managed isolation.. bloody price gouging :colonhash:

This is what people get for not living in Britannia. :colone:

Reply 85

Napp

Original post by Rakas21

This is what people get for not living in Britannia. :colone:

Hmm as far as losses go i'll take it :wink:

I do love that Britain actually trusts people to isolate when they arrive in the country though :lol:

Reply 86

Rakas21

Original post by Napp

Hmm as far as losses go i'll take it :wink:

I do love that Britain actually trusts people to isolate when they arrive in the country though :lol:

Oh I'd not trust you to do that, simply pointing out that you have the Highlands for skiing and the south west got surfing, Brighton for the funky sunny beaches. Who would need to expose themselves to dangerous foreign climbs.

Reply 87

Megacent

13

Original post by Lucifer323

With a fatality rate of 0.8% the number of infected who are now mostly immune are about 9 Million.

Officially the infected are 2.43M. Most of those have developed natural immunity regardless of the very desperate attempts by the believers in the Covid19 cult to argue the opposite. But these are believers. No much relevance with science or public health they have.

One of the craziest things I've seen is people arguing that you're previous infection doesn't equal immunity while also saying vaccines are the way out. They are the same thing lol! Immunity is immunity whether that comes naturally from exposure tothe virus or the much safer way of vaccination.

As for the people who keep saying "We don't know if vaccines stop transmission". Can I ask is there anything specifically that makes you think they won't, or are you just parroting it because you've heard someone else say it? Vaccines work by making you immune to a virus, I've never known one that doesn't stop you getting it and doesn't stop transmission. What makes you think this one will be different?

For @Thecrazydoughnuthave a a look at this tweet https://twitter.com/DaisyAdeleleo/status/1343983054696697862/photo/1
The reporter is saying ambulances are full but you can literally see around 10 in the background doing nothing. How does that work?

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 88

Original post by Megacent

For @Thecrazydoughnuthave a a look at this tweet https://twitter.com/DaisyAdeleleo/status/1343983054696697862/photo/1
The reporter is saying ambulances are full but you can literally see around 10 in the background doing nothing. How does that work?

The pictures floating around, where ambulances are supposedly 'offloading' patients is quite untrue. There is also a picture of my hospital ambulances parked up but the manner in the way the picture is taken is sparking panic. All those that work in our hospitals are aware that those ambulances are merely parked up, nothing to do with covid patients in the very least. You have to realise that not every patient admitted into hospitals with covid come by ambulance either.

I'm honestly glad you flagged this up because I keep having to explain it to people what the picture means. Photos can deceive the eyes. That's why its good to get verified information. Thank you for this. :smile:

Reply 89

nexttime

Original post by Megacent

For @Thecrazydoughnuthave a a look at this tweet https://twitter.com/DaisyAdeleleo/status/1343983054696697862/photo/1
The reporter is saying ambulances are full but you can literally see around 10 in the background doing nothing. How does that work?

Huh? When ambulances aren't being used, they tend to be out in the community waiting for calls. Ambulances parked like that normally means they either aren't crewed, or they have patients inside, or their crews are inside unable to leave.

Reply 90

nexttime

Original post by Thecrazydoughnut

The pictures floating around, where ambulances are supposedly 'offloading' patients is quite untrue. There is also a picture of my hospital ambulances parked up but the manner in the way the picture is taken is sparking panic. All those that work in our hospitals are aware that those ambulances are merely parked up...

What, your hospital has never had ambulances queuing outside with patients in? That would seem very very unlikely in the modern day, even without covid.

Your work in A&E or ambulance service to know this with that degree of certainty i guess?

Reply 91

Original post by nexttime

What, your hospital has never had ambulances queuing outside with patients in? That would seem very very unlikely in the modern day, even without covid.

Your work in A&E or ambulance service to know this with that degree of certainty i guess?

No, of course, they have. What I'm referring to, however, is not patients being treated but empty ambulances parked up in their designated parking spaces.

Yes. Any information I post on here is verified, and I don't see a point of making things up or the sort.

Reply 92

@nexttime @Megacent

However, I would post a picture of what I'm talking about, but don't really want to make it known of where I work. Id like to remain anon and not be associated with my place of work. :smile:

Reply 93

Lucifer323

18

Original post by Megacent

One of the craziest things I've seen is people arguing that you're previous infection doesn't equal immunity while also saying vaccines are the way out. They are the same thing lol! Immunity is immunity whether that comes naturally from exposure tothe virus or the much safer way of vaccination.

As for the people who keep saying "We don't know if vaccines stop transmission". Can I ask is there anything specifically that makes you think they won't, or are you just parroting it because you've heard someone else say it? Vaccines work by making you immune to a virus, I've never known one that doesn't stop you getting it and doesn't stop transmission. What makes you think this one will be different?

For @Thecrazydoughnuthave a a look at this tweet https://twitter.com/DaisyAdeleleo/status/1343983054696697862/photo/1
The reporter is saying ambulances are full but you can literally see around 10 in the background doing nothing. How does that work?

Precisely!

Most of these arguments are made by those who have no much relevance with science or public health matters. I know I have repeated this argument several times but it is the most important one. They are just parroting what they hear in the news or read online.

For someone who knows even the basics, it is obvious who is parroting what and who doesn't understand what they are saying.

The arguments made are often very unscientific and have no basis in anything that I know of. That's why I challenge them continuously. Some other user has asked me whether I have any qualifications yesterday. The answer is yes I do, and I have spent several years both as an undergraduate and postgraduate reading and doing research. However and I have emphasized it from the start you don't need formal academic qualifications to see the obvious. Simple, high school knowledge will do the job.

I have heard the most amazing claims here.

Vaccines are not rocket science for example.
made by ByEeek
It is obvious nonsense as there are no vaccines for a number of viruses, bacteriums and protists. Examples, HIV, Hepatitis C, CMV, the disease of Malaria, and many others.

The above user has made a large number of claims that are obviously not true. But his is not the only one. There are so many others who are on a regular basis give you the idea that they have never opened a gcse book in biology or any other science as the matter of fact.

A classical argument here is that those who have been infected, and there are many around here, possibly close to 9million or even higher have not developed immunity!!!
I don't know what books or research papers they have been reading... If they were not immune now millions would have ended up in the hospitals and many of those would have died. Those who made the above claim are oblivious to the basic facts.

Another argument is that Schools are safe places, made by ByEeek and a few others. Really?? Schools are the epicentres for the transmission of most respiratory diseases. Already proven to be the case here.

There are so many that I have lost count. But what stands out from all is the one described above when you have gone through by developing antibodies and T cell immunity and still (in their minds) you are not immune. Furthermore given you are not immune or not well-protected you now have to also get the vaccine AFTER you have been infected and developed antibodies but most importantly have had T-cell immunity. Plus that vaccines can create a much better immune response as they support, which is not true in the vast majority of cases with the other diseases.

These arguments show clearly what happens when science and public health matters become matters of political activism & politics.

It also shows the level of education and the level of ignorance in matters of science. Actually in this case not even common sense works.

Whet has worked out very well is the propagation of fear & terror together with hysteria and paranoia promoted and supported by some parts of the media and tolerated by some scientists and academics.

@TCA2b

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 94

nexttime

Original post by Thecrazydoughnut

No, of course, they have. What I'm referring to, however, is not patients being treated but empty ambulances parked up in their designated parking spaces.

Yes. Any information I post on here is verified, and I don't see a point of making things up or the sort.

Ambulances obviously do have to park somewhere when they aren't being used. In most hospitals that is definitely not outside A&E as that's very high priority space, but in some places that might happen I guess.

The fact that this is happening as part of a news story reporting how official figures are saying that was a terrible day, makes me think they were all waiting to offload though. We can't guarantee, but that seems likely.

Certainly, the shot is not proof that things are fine!

Reply 95

Megacent

13

Original post by Thecrazydoughnut

The pictures floating around, where ambulances are supposedly 'offloading' patients is quite untrue. There is also a picture of my hospital ambulances parked up but the manner in the way the picture is taken is sparking panic. All those that work in our hospitals are aware that those ambulances are merely parked up, nothing to do with covid patients in the very least. You have to realise that not every patient admitted into hospitals with covid come by ambulance either.

I'm honestly glad you flagged this up because I keep having to explain it to people what the picture means. Photos can deceive the eyes. That's why its good to get verified information. Thank you for this. :smile:

I appreciate you want people to follow the restrictions but I don't see how you can reasonably expect an entire country to put their life on hold and live in this pretty depressing way without at least giving them some indication of when it will be over. I know they probably can't give an exact date but they must have some idea based on the rate of vaccination. The more they keep moving the goalposts, the more it looks like they're never going to lift lockdowns. That's what I'm starting to think, that the only way out is for enough people to start resisting. We've complied for nine months and we're still in lockdown, what can you say to convince me things will be different if I comply for another nine months? Is there ever a point at which you would say enough is enough, if we are still in lockdown in 2025 for example?

Reply 96

username4986690

19

Original post by Megacent

I appreciate you want people to follow the restrictions but I don't see how you can reasonably expect an entire country to put their life on hold and live in this pretty depressing way without at least giving them some indication of when it will be over. I know they probably can't give an exact date but they must have some idea based on the rate of vaccination. The more they keep moving the goalposts, the more it looks like they're never going to lift lockdowns. That's what I'm starting to think, that the only way out is for enough people to start resisting. We've complied for nine months and we're still in lockdown, what can you say to convince me things will be different if I comply for another nine months? Is there ever a point at which you would say enough is enough, if we are still in lockdown in 2025 for example?

You already have a date, Boris said it would be over by Christmas. Did that not satisfy you?

Reply 97

Original post by Megacent

I appreciate you want people to follow the restrictions but I don't see how you can reasonably expect an entire country to put their life on hold and live in this pretty depressing way without at least giving them some indication of when it will be over. I know they probably can't give an exact date but they must have some idea based on the rate of vaccination. The more they keep moving the goalposts, the more it looks like they're never going to lift lockdowns. That's what I'm starting to think, that the only way out is for enough people to start resisting. We've complied for nine months and we're still in lockdown, what can you say to convince me things will be different if I comply for another nine months? Is there ever a point at which you would say enough is enough, if we are still in lockdown in 2025 for example?

You do realise that it’s not only you in lockdown? We’re in lockdown too, aside from going to work and coming back home, we’re not going elsewhere even on our days off.

I haven’t seen my family members in months like everyone else however you won’t see me complaining about it.

They can’t give a date dependent upon the vaccines. It’s variable. Everyone’s suffering from different symptoms so it’ll be months or even years to know how this vaccines holds up, though I have no high hopes about it.

Reply 98

Lucifer323

18

Original post by Thecrazydoughnut

You do realise that it’s not only you in lockdown? We’re in lockdown too, aside from going to work and coming back home, we’re not going elsewhere even on our days off.

I haven’t seen my family members in months like everyone else however you won’t see me complaining about it.

They can’t give a date dependent upon the vaccines. It’s variable. Everyone’s suffering from different symptoms so it’ll be months or even years to know how this vaccines holds up, though I have no high hopes about it.

I will refer you to my post number 94 and to make the note as in other threads, that a vaccine is part of the solution and not the solution itself.

The lockdown was never an attempt to reduce the number of infections or prevent deaths but rather to spread them more evenly and in a longer period of time.

Lockdowns can only serve as a short-term fix and even this is high debatable. In the long term they are catastrophic.

To be able to achieve what you have been discussing you need to achieve herd immunity regardless of the fact that it has been demonised on the media by reporters who have not a clue about pretty much anything.
The above is achieved through natural immunity & vaccinations. Natural immunity develops when you are getting infected and get over it & when you are exposed to the same family of viruses.

There are currently 9Milllion at least who have been infected and most are immune. Using the 0.8% mortality rate here in the UK. Adding also those who have had immunity already due to exposure in other coronaviruses we a large number of people already immune.
If you add also those who are going to get vaccinated then by the end of 2021 I think the situation would be over (if the vaccines are reasonably effective)

The solution is not just a vaccine.

Here is what you must have:

Primary Heath Care and a very good NHS
Very well trained researchers, doctors and nurses
Natural immunity (i.e having produced antibodies and be able to produce antibodies and have T-Cell Immunity)
Good and effective vaccines
Good and safe medicines for those who have already been infected so those in high risk groups to be spared and not to loose their lives in large quantities.

The idea that millions of people will go and hide indefinitely in their homes until a vaccine is found us certainly not realistic, and not scientific. Is a desperate political decision that has been taken without consensus by scientists and public health officials.

This is not a short term fix as we have had almost a year of this and there is another one coming which is going to be more or less similar.

The collateral damage of the lockdowns outweighs any benefits they produce (highly debatable if they produce any benefits).

Reply 99