Did you ever question whether or not it is right to eat meat and how it is produced?

I suggest you watch this Ted talk, it addresses your point and so many others.

https://youtu.be/byTxzzztRBU

Nothing in this video is a logical argument, the man just compared hunting sports to female genital mutilation, and eating meat to adopting dogs to torture them.

The dog example was justified because he provided sources to justify that meat is unnecessary first. Regarding female genital mutilation, of course it's not the same, all he was saying is that it's legal in some countries but that doesn't make it moral. So by the same logic, just because meat is legal, it doesn't mean that it's moral.

Due to the speed of your response, you don't seem to have watched the whole video. I highly recommend watching it through, I promise it's one of the most valuable 20 minutes of your life.

As a vegan, I would never question myself on whether it is wrong or right to eat meat, but essentially it is the choice of the individual, and everyone else should remember that.

It shouldn't be because the animals don't get a choice

No I watched the whole video on 1.75, there's no credibility in what he's saying, especially with warped ideas such as his comparisons. He tried to assume in a moral sense that abusing a dog is equal to eating meat -- he didn't mention the implicit and explicit harm being caused, simply that they're the same but one is "paying someone else to do it for you".

I'm not disagreeing with everything he's saying, but the guy clearly has spent the night before revising this speech, and any claims on morals are absolute farcrys from reality. Not the best representative as a pathway to veganism.

True, but I would never push my beliefs onto others. I do not see any reason why other vegans do that, because they are too interfering.

Since we can thrive on a vegan diet, meat isn't necessary, hence it's reasonable to compare it to dog abuse. Livestock get abused so much, it's terrible but true.

I really think everything he says makes so much sense. I'd highly recommend watching it again at normal speed and taking some time to reflect on it. You can't deny the power of his final point, that an animal gave its life for a meal that you will eat and then forget about.

No, it's not comparable to dog abuse. Again, implicit and explicit. There's big mental differences in picking up and cooking sausages from ASDA, and literally adopting a dog just to beat it. Mentally and physically. These are arguments for people who have no reasoning.

Also who is valuing an animals life as more than my meals? I will forever be grateful for every meal I have, however I don't have to remember every animal, farmer or lorry driver who got it to my plate - as no human or animal has ever done. Ever

Buying meat is as bad as killing the animal yourself, it's easy to forget that you're paying for an animal to be killed but it doesn't make it any less bad.

How selfish is it to justify torture, abuse and murder just because you enjoy the taste of your meal a bit more? There's no way that your pleasure from eating meat outweighs the suffering inflicted on the animals.

There's no way that your pleasure from eating meat outweighs the suffering inflicted on the animals.

If your parents bring you up as a meat eater, you don't have any idea where meat comes from when you're a baby - your parents just give it to you. At some point, you realise that animals had to be killed to produce it.

I am curious as to when you first realised that animals were killed to produce meat and when (if ever) you considered whether or not it is right to eat animals. When considering whether or not it is right, did you look into how animals are slaughtered?

Children aren't educated on how exactly meat is produced but most adults think that it's done humanely (even though this isn't really the case in reality) so I am wondering when exactly people first start to think that it's humane, and if most children go through a stage where they imagine it's not produced humanely but just continue eating meat anyway because they don't care about the animals.

I'm actually spending less than ever on my food. I shop at Aldi and buy a lot of tins - 22p for a tin of baked beans, 35p for a tin of cannellini beans of chickpeas etc. And also you can buy a full size loaf of bread for 36p and a 500g pack of spaghetti for 20p. And so much more cheap stuff too. Honestly there's no need to spend a lot and we can get so many nutrients from these things and cheap vegetables (I buy frozen diced onions from Aldi, 65p per pack and it is so easy to prepare them and they provide a lot of servings. And 65p for a huge pack of frozen broccoli). You can prepare so many delicious dishes with minimal effort from cheap ingredients and I honestly find this food so much more tasty than a piece of meat! I do also take supplements just to be on the safe side, these didn't cost too much and I would be happy to help you to find some good value vegan ones.

Meat can be cheap because it's produced on such a large scale and is subsidised by the government - if processed vegan food was produced on the same scale and subsidised too it would be so much cheaper.

It's great to hear that you were vegan in the past and I'm really sorry to hear about you becoming homeless, I hope that your circumstances are more favourable now. I would highly suggest that you think back to why you went vegan before and remind yourself of why it was such a great decision. I would be more than happy to help you to make the switch again, feel free to message me anytime for a friendly chat.

The world's strongest man is vegan https://medium.com/four-pursuits-ventures/worlds-strongest-man-is-a-vegan-c2db543c62c8

For one, you've barely responded to anything I said and I shall duly count that as you not having a contrary argument to any of it.

As pertains to that chap:
- He's not the world's strongest man (he holds some records but others hold more and he has never won WSM)
- That's one man and anecdotal - I'll answer to a proper peer-reviewed and reproduced study
- Diet may be a factor in becoming as strong as he is but it's not the only factor
- It doesn't say what he was eating before he became vegan and whether he could have moved to an improved omnivorous diet instead
- The strongman organisation he competes in does not do doping tests - I can't prove anything here but doping's rife in strongman so it wouldn't surprise me if his muscles weren't entirely plant-based
- The protein he consumes (410 grams per day) is highly processed which I can't help thinking is not as good as naturally occurring animal protein
- Why are there not more vegan strongmen if it's so good?

Look, arguing back is not helping your cause. You want people to stop supporting these industries, I understand.

But you’re presenting all vegans in a bad light. Give out some facts, say hey Eating meat does this to the environment etc and there will be many people who may consider eating it less or maybe not at all etc. But carrying on like this is not going to help your cause at all, in fact it may even put people off veganism and vegetarianism because they view you as being a representation of (lots of) vegans. Cop on.

that's great i'm assuming you weren't homeless while you're buying and cooking all this food.

how much are suppliments and are they cheaper than buying and budgeting non-vegan food?

I'm sorry I didn't address everything from your previous message, this was out of character for me and all I can say is that I was really tired and had shut my computer down but wanted to send you something to answer the question in your message before I went to bed.

Regarding your links that rubbish The Game Changers, yes of course there are always going to be arguments about any documentary but these are one-sided and you have to bear in mind that a lot of these arguments stem from research that was funded by the meat and dairy industry to try to mislead us. Also most people have a misconception ingrained in their mind that we absolutely need animal products. I don't have the time this morning to read through the articles you gave links to and address all the points properly (in view of the fact that this response is already very long and I am really doing my best to address everything for you), however it's certainly worth bearing in mind that the NHS says "With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs".

You can't deny that meat leads to health problems. However, whenever health problems associated with meat are reported by the press, the meat industry very quickly gets involved with other press reports designed to confuse us. The confusion means that people don't know what to believe, and can't see a reason to give up meat. We need to bear in mind that the meat, fish, dairy and egg industries are absolutely massive and regardless of the unnecessary animal suffering, they will do whatever it takes to try to protect their businesses. This is combined with the fact that most people think we need to eat meat and most companies that sell food sell meat and advertise it. So however valid the arguments are for veganism, tragically they don't get listened to properly and it is a vicious circle.

Do also bear in mind that 50 years ago, there were adverts saying that smoking is good for you. People believed this and smoked and think of all the problems this has caused. Maybe in 50 years time meat will be thought of in the same way as smoking is now with regards to our health!

Regarding your idea of getting locally-bred animals from smaller-scale farms due to the issue of future pandemics, we have to bear in mind that half of the world's habitable land is used for agriculture and three quarters of this is used for animal farming. So there simply isn't the land available for everyone to eat meat if it wasn't factory farmed (bearing in mind that 95% of meat comes from factory farming in the UK and 99% in the USA). It just doesn't work to try to produce enough meat to feed humans given how large our population is! So it is inevitable that if we eat meat, we risk future pandemics such as a mutation of bird flu or swine flu. Maybe in 10 years time we'll have 2 years of lockdowns and millions of people will die as a result. Even if there weren't any other negative impacts of eating meat, surely this alone is enough of a reason to give it up! Living with lockdowns, having businesses destroyed, people dying etc. is surely not a price worth paying so that people like the taste of their food a bit more.

You say "We are descended from herbivores but we have evolved to catch animals by evolving to run long distances for long periods". Regardless of whether or not this is the case, it doesn't justify eating meat. Just because it is possible to do something doesn't mean that we should. We can live on a vegan diet, therefore eating meat is a choice for us, but something that is inflicted on animals. Our ancestors did a lot of things that most people disapprove of (e.g. slavery), surely most people today want to do what is right. We can eat animals, but we can also choose not to rather than inflict suffering on them.

If you look it up, lots of athletes have gone vegan.

Re your post from this morning, ok maybe there are other men who can claim to be stronger by another measure and yes one case isn't proof. But maybe those other men would be even stronger if they were vegan. Yes maybe he's doing other things too that not all strong men are doing. But equally maybe other men are doing other things that he isn't. To answer your question of when he became vegan, I have done a quick Google search and he became vegetarian in 2005 and vegan in 2011. Suggesting that a different omnivorous diet might have been better gives no reason to believe that this is the case.

Other men competing with the same organisation are just as likely to have taken dope so I don't get your argument about that.

You say that he has eaten processed protein. What we should realise is that meat is processed protein. Animals are the middle man, if we eat them the nutrients came from the plants but meat contains bad stuff too. It's much better to eat the plants directly.

You say why are there not more vegan strong men? Presumably because only a small proportion of athletes have tried a vegan diet - they have thrived on it and I'm sure that others would if they tried it. However, sadly most still have the misconception that they need meat.