I absolutely hate PBL
I do 100% realise that I am very lucky to have gotten into medicine, but I never expected to hate the course structure this much. When I researched PBL it was about working in groups and having a case based discussion, all of which are okay. What I did not expect is to be teaching myself 80% of the content.I don't understand much and I seem to just be memorising stuff for the sake of the exam, which I forget soon after because I never understood anything properly. I feel so robbed of the opportunity to sit in a lecture and be taught by a lecturer who's an expert in the field and be able to ask questions. it's not even independent study at this point, it is an independent degree. the uni absolutely teaches us nothing. I feel so frustrated with everything. is it too much to expect education from an educational institute? we are expected to teach ourselves everything and when we struggle it is our fault. I'm so fed up. I feel so alone as well. it is very possible that I'm going to fail my exams and idk what to do anymore. it's not even about the content, it's about the teaching. if it was taught, it would be okay. but I'm sick of relying on YouTube videos and books that I don't understand.
Reply 1
Original post by Anonymous
I do 100% realise that I am very lucky to have gotten into medicine, but I never expected to hate the course structure this much. When I researched PBL it was about working in groups and having a case based discussion, all of which are okay. What I did not expect is to be teaching myself 80% of the content.I don't understand much and I seem to just be memorising stuff for the sake of the exam, which I forget soon after because I never understood anything properly. I feel so robbed of the opportunity to sit in a lecture and be taught by a lecturer who's an expert in the field and be able to ask questions. it's not even independent study at this point, it is an independent degree. the uni absolutely teaches us nothing. I feel so frustrated with everything. is it too much to expect education from an educational institute? we are expected to teach ourselves everything and when we struggle it is our fault. I'm so fed up. I feel so alone as well. it is very possible that I'm going to fail my exams and idk what to do anymore. it's not even about the content, it's about the teaching. if it was taught, it would be okay. but I'm sick of relying on YouTube videos and books that I don't understand.
Very sorry to hear you feel this way. I feel that in particular with one of my modules this year too which is all PBL learning. What year are you in? If you are in first year, you might want to consider perhaps transferring to a different university that offers more lecture-based teaching sessions.
If this is not a viable option or you find you really like this university and course but just feel that you aren't provided enough support in your learning, perhaps speak to your Personal Academic tutor or student representative if you have one, or just go straight to the lecturer or course lead and express your concerns to see if perhaps there are ways they can provide more support to you. They are, after all, employed for the benefit of the students and their learning so I'm sure they would be willing to help.
If like me you also struggle to understand abstract or difficult concepts at times, perhaps further discussion with your peers outside of classroom time can aid you in understanding the more difficult topics or joining forums for medical students (particularly if your uni has one) as I'm sure you will find other students who have similar problems with the way the course is structured.
Hope this helps at all
Reply 2
Original post by Amira_Jade
If you are in first year, you might want to consider perhaps transferring to a different university that offers more lecture-based teaching sessions.
I think you will find that transfers from one medicine course to another are exceptionally rare.
Reply 3
Original post by Amira_Jade
Very sorry to hear you feel this way. I feel that in particular with one of my modules this year too which is all PBL learning. What year are you in? If you are in first year, you might want to consider perhaps transferring to a different university that offers more lecture-based teaching sessions.
If this is not a viable option or you find you really like this university and course but just feel that you aren't provided enough support in your learning, perhaps speak to your Personal Academic tutor or student representative if you have one, or just go straight to the lecturer or course lead and express your concerns to see if perhaps there are ways they can provide more support to you. They are, after all, employed for the benefit of the students and their learning so I'm sure they would be willing to help.
If like me you also struggle to understand abstract or difficult concepts at times, perhaps further discussion with your peers outside of classroom time can aid you in understanding the more difficult topics or joining forums for medical students (particularly if your uni has one) as I'm sure you will find other students who have similar problems with the way the course is structured.
Hope this helps at all
If this is not a viable option or you find you really like this university and course but just feel that you aren't provided enough support in your learning, perhaps speak to your Personal Academic tutor or student representative if you have one, or just go straight to the lecturer or course lead and express your concerns to see if perhaps there are ways they can provide more support to you. They are, after all, employed for the benefit of the students and their learning so I'm sure they would be willing to help.
If like me you also struggle to understand abstract or difficult concepts at times, perhaps further discussion with your peers outside of classroom time can aid you in understanding the more difficult topics or joining forums for medical students (particularly if your uni has one) as I'm sure you will find other students who have similar problems with the way the course is structured.
Hope this helps at all
thanks for your reply. I'm first year but most unis don't allow transfers outside exceptional circumstances and I don't think they consider this to be exceptional. my personal tutor just says that I shouldn't be struggling, they've never been helpful, they always blame me they never support me. no one really cares. they all treat me like if this is too much then i'm not cut out for medicine and I should just withdraw. we have discussions in PBL but we are all as clueless as each other so no one's really able to explain anything fully. I don't think I've understood a single physiological process completely since we started. it's all just bits and pieces and it's very hard to put them all together. if I had known it'd be this way I would not have applied.
Reply 4
Original post by Anonymous
thanks for your reply. I'm first year but most unis don't allow transfers outside exceptional circumstances and I don't think they consider this to be exceptional. my personal tutor just says that I shouldn't be struggling, they've never been helpful, they always blame me they never support me. no one really cares. they all treat me like if this is too much then i'm not cut out for medicine and I should just withdraw. we have discussions in PBL but we are all as clueless as each other so no one's really able to explain anything fully. I don't think I've understood a single physiological process completely since we started. it's all just bits and pieces and it's very hard to put them all together. if I had known it'd be this way I would not have applied.
I understand that can be quite frustrating. Also just to add, you may not be able to transfer but seeing as you are only within your first year do you see it a possibility of simply starting fresh from first year with a different university?
It sounds as though the one you are going to isn't what you thought it would be in terms of teaching. It is perhaps the case that either the university teaching style is not akin to how you personally learn, which, if you are a first year and you're already not happy with the course, is a key indicator it might not be the university for you. Secondly, have you considered perhaps medicine isn't the course you'd like to do?
Sounds like a frustrating situation for you. Having said that, you don't need to love it, you just need to get through it.
Does your university have a peer support society where more senior years offer teaching for earlier years? My medical school had this and it was a good opportunity to go over topics and learn useful tips, explanations, mnemonics etc.
If your university doesn't have such a society, maybe see if anyone in the upper years is interested in starting one up.
Does your university have a peer support society where more senior years offer teaching for earlier years? My medical school had this and it was a good opportunity to go over topics and learn useful tips, explanations, mnemonics etc.
If your university doesn't have such a society, maybe see if anyone in the upper years is interested in starting one up.
Reply 6
I think you may be overestimating the quality of lecture based teaching. Sitting in a lecture hall full of students watching a PowerPoint delivered by people who may be experts in their fields but who may have next to zero delivery skills and who buggers off immediately the lecture is over? You still have to do the reading and you still have to learn medicine from the source books and papers.
If you’re struggling now, you’ll be in for a rude awakening in clinical years and beyond. You will have to be really independent with your learning then.
You may want to consider having a chat with your academic advisor about this because it sounds like you need a support plan.
If you’re struggling now, you’ll be in for a rude awakening in clinical years and beyond. You will have to be really independent with your learning then.
You may want to consider having a chat with your academic advisor about this because it sounds like you need a support plan.
Original post by Anonymous
I think you may be overestimating the quality of lecture based teaching. Sitting in a lecture hall full of students watching a PowerPoint delivered by people who may be experts in their fields but who may have next to zero delivery skills and who buggers off immediately the lecture is over? You still have to do the reading and you still have to learn medicine from the source books and papers.
This is also a very good point.
As above, I think this may be a case of "the grass is greener". Many "experts in their fields" don't actually like teaching undergrads and it shows. Most also will have had no formal training in teaching.
Also at degree level in general the expectation is that the student will be responsible for a large part of their learning - even in lectures based courses the lectures are usually only a starting point and iverview and you are exodcted to fill in the gaps and add detail through your own reading. It's not like school where you get taught everything in the exact amount of detail for the exam and with time for further discussions and digressions.
Also at degree level in general the expectation is that the student will be responsible for a large part of their learning - even in lectures based courses the lectures are usually only a starting point and iverview and you are exodcted to fill in the gaps and add detail through your own reading. It's not like school where you get taught everything in the exact amount of detail for the exam and with time for further discussions and digressions.
Sorry to hear you're struggling, I felt very very similar in pre-clinical years (I was in a lecture based uni but to be honest the lecturers just did not explain much). I don't think it's a realistic advice to transfer universities. What you need to do is find the ways to learn and understand the content that works for you and then try to suspend your frustration and just stick with it for a little while. You might find that things will gradually improve over time.
It is very individual but what I found is that some online resources, especially US-focused, can explain stuff really well, just as well (and actually much better) as face to face lecturers. The ones I found particularly helpful (just as a few examples) were AK Lectures on youtube - I used it for biochem but I think that guy has now created videos for loads of topics and he also has a dedicated website, all the content was free last time I checked. He explains from first principles, in a lot of detail, in a way that I found quite systematic.
Another great resource is Pathoma for pathology content but that one you have to pay for (but that guy might be one of the world's best lecturers in medicine, US medical students absolutely worship him). For clinical years Osmosis and Armando Hasudungan on youtube were consistently good quality, and Armando does a lot of videos on basic sciences as well, so definitely check him out.
I don't have a physiology recommendation from the top of my head as it was relatively better taught for us but try googling what resources people recommend for physiology for USMLE prep, there are usually many good recommendations there.
I would probably recommend sticking to the same resources once you find they suit you and not try to boil the ocean with multiple videos / textbooks for the same topic. This can be tricky though as your curriculum might not fully align with a single external source.
In general, sending sympathies again but honestly, it's completely normal and common to feel "what the HECK is going on?" while studying medicine and then slowly and gradually, will lots of hard work, things start falling into place. I am currently at the stage of sitting postgraduate exams (MRCP) and it's still a similar emotional rollercoaster. You get used to it over time though and don't panic as much any more.
You've worked so hard to get to where you are now, don't give up just yet, keep kicking, you can do this xx
It is very individual but what I found is that some online resources, especially US-focused, can explain stuff really well, just as well (and actually much better) as face to face lecturers. The ones I found particularly helpful (just as a few examples) were AK Lectures on youtube - I used it for biochem but I think that guy has now created videos for loads of topics and he also has a dedicated website, all the content was free last time I checked. He explains from first principles, in a lot of detail, in a way that I found quite systematic.
Another great resource is Pathoma for pathology content but that one you have to pay for (but that guy might be one of the world's best lecturers in medicine, US medical students absolutely worship him). For clinical years Osmosis and Armando Hasudungan on youtube were consistently good quality, and Armando does a lot of videos on basic sciences as well, so definitely check him out.
I don't have a physiology recommendation from the top of my head as it was relatively better taught for us but try googling what resources people recommend for physiology for USMLE prep, there are usually many good recommendations there.
I would probably recommend sticking to the same resources once you find they suit you and not try to boil the ocean with multiple videos / textbooks for the same topic. This can be tricky though as your curriculum might not fully align with a single external source.
In general, sending sympathies again but honestly, it's completely normal and common to feel "what the HECK is going on?" while studying medicine and then slowly and gradually, will lots of hard work, things start falling into place. I am currently at the stage of sitting postgraduate exams (MRCP) and it's still a similar emotional rollercoaster. You get used to it over time though and don't panic as much any more.
You've worked so hard to get to where you are now, don't give up just yet, keep kicking, you can do this xx
Reply 10
I hated pre-clinical medicine and was on a course that was part group work (PBL before it was called "PBL") and lecture based. Neither was an effective modality for learning. I hated lectures less because I could at least sit with some notes and learn the material even if I was barely listening to the lecture.
Just do what you need to get through. The clinical years will be better - at least in the sense that you will be autonomous enough to learn how you want for the most part.
Just do what you need to get through. The clinical years will be better - at least in the sense that you will be autonomous enough to learn how you want for the most part.
Original post by Anonymous
I do 100% realise that I am very lucky to have gotten into medicine, but I never expected to hate the course structure this much. When I researched PBL it was about working in groups and having a case based discussion, all of which are okay. What I did not expect is to be teaching myself 80% of the content.I don't understand much and I seem to just be memorising stuff for the sake of the exam, which I forget soon after because I never understood anything properly. I feel so robbed of the opportunity to sit in a lecture and be taught by a lecturer who's an expert in the field and be able to ask questions. it's not even independent study at this point, it is an independent degree. the uni absolutely teaches us nothing. I feel so frustrated with everything. is it too much to expect education from an educational institute? we are expected to teach ourselves everything and when we struggle it is our fault. I'm so fed up. I feel so alone as well. it is very possible that I'm going to fail my exams and idk what to do anymore. it's not even about the content, it's about the teaching. if it was taught, it would be okay. but I'm sick of relying on YouTube videos and books that I don't understand.
Which Uni are you from ,if u don’t mind?
Reply 12
This is a contentious topic, I will say that.
It is no secret that there there is a fair bit of venom directed toward CBL/PBL directed courses voiced by existing doctors who have a fair bit of time in clinical medicine. In various discussions surrounding this I have identified some of the following factoids which you may or may not agree with:
Now, whether you agree with any of the above or not, you would not be the first to state that you find PBL a bit flat or uninspiring. That being said, it is true that sitting in a conventional lecture with a presenter delivering 40-60 power-point slides is a pretty conventional and possibly outmoded teaching modality. I have no problem with lectures per se, it is an established form of learning I have known for a long time and it suits me on a personal level. I'm just not so sure you need to design a course around it with hundreds of people physically sitting in the same room as each other elbow to elbow. I think for the bulk of learners, you could just livestream the thing and have the same effect, particularly if you provide a recording afterwards. Some established American Universities, for example, do post some of their lectures on youtube for the entire world to see.
PBL/CBL type approaches I found a bit clunky. I don't mind teaching myself things, but in reality the main consideration for any medical student will always be time and so it will never surprise me at how popular Passmed or similar resources are. They are by far the most time-conserving resources and study method available.
But this in itself is a problem.
I know people who performed well in medical school at every stage and in any metric you could choose to score them by. But a number of them did not engage fully with learning material, did not attend sessions as timetabled and did not make the most of their time in the clinical environment. My concern for them would thus be, how well do they actually know this material/content when it comes down to the line when they are an F1/F2 and on their own looking after two dozen surgical patients on a Saturday night?
I do not, in all honesty, know the answers to all of the above. But I do know that future doctors must have the best possible grasp of medicine at a physiological/anatomical level and need to learn how to develop real-world leadership skills very early on because they are not the only people about who can 'work' in medicine these days. PBL/CBL basically forces students to learn 'brass tacks' level medicine AND develop discussion, team-working and leadership skills (or it should do). Not everyone in medical school enters with these, I think we can agree on that. But are we all leaving with them?
It is no secret that there there is a fair bit of venom directed toward CBL/PBL directed courses voiced by existing doctors who have a fair bit of time in clinical medicine. In various discussions surrounding this I have identified some of the following factoids which you may or may not agree with:
1.
Newly graduated doctors are appearing that they percieve as not having the 'correct' level of skill/knowledge/clinical acumen that others may have had some years prior.
2.
The idea that somehow medical school finals are easier than they were or that schools X and Y have an easier time of it and their exams are easier than school Z.
3.
The growth of what I have heard termed 'guideline' medicine. I.e. the attitude that one can, quite legitimately practice medicine, by following guidelines or similar, without ever having to resort to using (or even knowing to begin with) a great deal of what could be termed fundamental physiology, anatomy or pharmacology.
Now, whether you agree with any of the above or not, you would not be the first to state that you find PBL a bit flat or uninspiring. That being said, it is true that sitting in a conventional lecture with a presenter delivering 40-60 power-point slides is a pretty conventional and possibly outmoded teaching modality. I have no problem with lectures per se, it is an established form of learning I have known for a long time and it suits me on a personal level. I'm just not so sure you need to design a course around it with hundreds of people physically sitting in the same room as each other elbow to elbow. I think for the bulk of learners, you could just livestream the thing and have the same effect, particularly if you provide a recording afterwards. Some established American Universities, for example, do post some of their lectures on youtube for the entire world to see.
PBL/CBL type approaches I found a bit clunky. I don't mind teaching myself things, but in reality the main consideration for any medical student will always be time and so it will never surprise me at how popular Passmed or similar resources are. They are by far the most time-conserving resources and study method available.
But this in itself is a problem.
I know people who performed well in medical school at every stage and in any metric you could choose to score them by. But a number of them did not engage fully with learning material, did not attend sessions as timetabled and did not make the most of their time in the clinical environment. My concern for them would thus be, how well do they actually know this material/content when it comes down to the line when they are an F1/F2 and on their own looking after two dozen surgical patients on a Saturday night?
I do not, in all honesty, know the answers to all of the above. But I do know that future doctors must have the best possible grasp of medicine at a physiological/anatomical level and need to learn how to develop real-world leadership skills very early on because they are not the only people about who can 'work' in medicine these days. PBL/CBL basically forces students to learn 'brass tacks' level medicine AND develop discussion, team-working and leadership skills (or it should do). Not everyone in medical school enters with these, I think we can agree on that. But are we all leaving with them?
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