Transgender women banned from women's chess events

It's not at all a problem for them to play together. They've always able to play together in mixed tournaments, and still are.

The problem is simply that women are very underrepresented in the sport, and women-only tournaments are a way to try and raise their profile and encourage more of them to start playing. It's probably not a big deal if trans-women take part too, but that makes it very difficult to enforce the main restriction that men can't take part.

Yes well, that would be great in an ideal world, and if it's achievable in practice then I'd agree with you.

Is that how being trans works? I thought they socially identify as women in terms of gender, but still recognise that they are biologically male. Surely they cannot identify as biologically female; if they did, they would simply be mistaken, wouldn't they?

I suppose the justification is that a women's category isn't really a women's category at all if there's no restriction on who can compete. If any man can make himself eligible just by uttering the words "I identify as a woman" (with no challenge or verification needed), then the competition is effectively open to all who wish to take part, and so it may as well just be billed as open-entry. But as I say, the more fundamental issue here is whether the women's category should even exist at all. If we decide that it shouldn't and all competitions should be gender neutral, then the issue regarding trans-people solves itself.

It's not at all a problem for them to play together. They've always able to play together in mixed tournaments, and still are.

The problem is simply that women are very underrepresented in the sport, and women-only tournaments are a way to try and raise their profile and encourage more of them to start playing. It's probably not a big deal if trans-women take part too, but that makes it very difficult to enforce the main restriction that men can't take part.

This is besides the point now. Your claim was that by allowing transwomen into chess tournaments you "also effectively allowing any male person (trans or not) to compete if they want to". This is not necessarily true. If you applied restrictions to entry you can make it harder for non-trans people ("fake" transgender people, if you will) to participate. It wouldn't simply be the case that anyone could turn up, say "I am a transwoman" and be granted entry.

I can see how in that case why the trans woman should have to be established in the choice of a féminin gender, but I really can’t imagine that the vast majority of men would be willing to declare themselves trans just to participate in a féminin competition where we have already established that the prize money is lower. And even if it could be argued that it might permit some men who weren’t sufficiently highly ranked on the male circuit to earn a living on the women’s no one can believe that a cis male would fake a trans identity just to make a living on the chess circuit. I’d find that really hard to believe given the implications for their personal life.

Tbh if it’s just a question that women aren’t at the men’s level yet due to historic factors, I’m afraid I still believe that there shouldn’t be men’s and women’s events but just one category. Publicity campaigns and increasing the number of chess clubs in schools etc should be used to encourage girls to play. If short term they loose out on financial gains I’m afraid it’s just up to them to up their game and I would have thought the prize money would be a motivating factor . There is no biological or societal reason in todays world (maybe not the case in some Muslim countries) to main male and female competitions and as such the trans issue shouldn’t even exist in chess.

Then why only have the decision apply to transwomen and not transmen? I.e why not make the Open Category cismen only and make transmen have to compete in the Women's category (if things are more about grouping people based on biological sex even when it's hard to see or tell what biological advantages biological men would have over ciswomen in sport such as this one unlike rowing, cycling, boxing, weightlifting etc)

I'm not saying that biologically transwomen are female, in saying that they identify as female i.e their gender is female and not male so I can see how it excludes them especially for a sports like chess where there's no biological advantage that they have AFIAK but someone who knows chess or biology or psychology, might know better (when it comes to biological advantages that transwomen have over ciswomen and how those biological advantages are a problem when playing chess like how they are for many other sports).

I personally think that for a sport like Chess, it shouldn't exist at all as beyond lack of representation of women in chess, I fail to see the need to have separate categories but then again, I don't play chess competitively. I'd like to think that (most) people aren't going to change their gender to simply win a chess competition and that they'd be genuine.

Unless are you saying that people in sports should be grouped based on sex in all cases and not gender? I.e transmen should play in the Women's category under all circumstances (scrap the open category and make it male again) as they are not biologically male and transwomen should play in the men's category under all circumstances as they are not biologically female.

But that relies on a set of restrictions actually existing, that can reliably distinguish between the "real" and "fake" trans person. But there isn't one. You can't prove what someone does or doesn't identify as when it's purely a matter of their own subjective experience.

I can see how in that case why the trans woman should have to be established in the choice of a féminin gender, but I really can’t imagine that the vast majority of men would be willing to declare themselves trans just to participate in a féminin competition where we have already established that the prize money is lower. And even if it could be argued that it might permit some men who weren’t sufficiently highly ranked on the male circuit to earn a living on the women’s no one can believe that a cis male would fake a trans identity just to make a living on the chess circuit. I’d find that really hard to believe given the implications for their personal life.

But you can apply restrictions that prevent 'effectively anyone' from participating in women's chess. GRCs, for example, would immediately limit participation to only people who have them.

But based on what you're proposing, "effectively anyone" who wants a GRC can get one within a few months. The hurdles are so low that even a person who isn't trans could clear them quite easily if they wanted to.

I think the decision does apply to transmen i.e. they are allowed to compete in the female category, They're also allowed to compete in the open category, but that is of course because everyone is allowed to compete in that.


I think my point is that this decision doesn't deny or invalidate their gender identity. They can still identify as women and live like women as much as they like. All this decision says is that it's biological sex that we're categorising people by, not gender identity.


Well that's the thing. I think the lack of representation of women in chess probably is the only reason why these categories exist. If there was equal representation I think all tournaments would be mixed.


Almost. I'm saying that people in sports should be categorised by sex rather than gender identity (just because sex is verifiable and gender identity isn't), so a male tournament would be for men and trans women, whilst a female tournament would be for women and trans men. But at the same time, in a sport like chess, there's nothing wrong with having mixed tournaments, and there might not always be a need for male-only or female-only tournaments.

The hurdles are higher than merely saying "I am transgender" at a chess tournament and playing against other women.

If the goal was to categorise based on biological sex in this sport as opposed to making things fair and equal then why have an open category at all/make the men's category open? (As opposed to male and female). Why allow transmen to compete against cismen in chess but not allow transwomen to compete against ciswomen in chess (considering what type of sport this is compared to the likes of rowing for example where biological differences matter)?

Part of me also now wonders why women (I say this as woman) should be entitled to their own categories in sport to the point where they only compete against ciswomen but cismen aren't always getting same entitlement and the male category becomes "open" even in sports where biological differences don't seem to matter or give one side an unfair advantage in the sport. I'm not a man though so I can't speak for men when i comes to this decision.

I’m not really following. Trans women can compete against cis women. Trans men can compete against cis women. Anyone can compete against anyone, because we have open categories.

We just have a female category in addition, in an attempt to help increase female participation and the profile of women in the sport. Apart from that, sex/gender doesn’t matter in chess.



Well because men aren’t the ones who are underrepresented in the sport. The top chess players are almost all men already. So there isn’t much to be gained from having a “male only” category.

They can't compete against ciswomen in the Women's category whereas as a transman would be able to compete in the mens/open category AFAIK i.e transman is given more of a choice/a choice in the first place, transwoman is not despite there being no proof (at the moment) that biological men have unfair advantages over biological women in a sport like chess.

This is why I find that the decision doesn't make much sense (unlike when it comes to banning transwomen in other women's sports). If transwomen had a biological advantage over ciswomen and/or FIDA finds that to be the case for a sport like chess then be it, I'll understand the rationale behind this decision to ban transwomen from women's chess. Others in the thread also seem to agree that the decision doesn't make much sense.

I think that encouraging more girls to get into sports in the first place is better. I fail to see how banning transwomen in women's chess will make sure that ciswomen are more encouraged to play chess competitively (unless it's found that transwomen have advantages over ciswomen in chess for example) unlike for other sports. I don't play chess competitively though.

There is no “men’s category”. The vast majority of chess is mixed. There are some women-only tournaments and titles, but their purpose isn’t specifically to equalise a biological disadvantage. It’s more to recognise exceptional females for succeeding in the sport. Because for some reason, a woman needs to be far more exceptional than a man to reach the same level as him. When there have been zero female world champions, only one in the top 10 and only three in the top 100, something strange is definitely happening. But we don’t really know how much of that is biological and how much isn’t.

It’s not so much “banning trans women”, but rather “having a female category” that is supposed to help increase female participation and give them the recognition they deserve. Although yes, I take your point that there might be better ways to achieve this.

Yeah not sure how for chess it'll increase female participation or how the number of transwomen in women's chess is significant enough to discourage ciswomen from playing chess unlike for other sports. Could have things like more chess clubs instead.

I can see this point but I still have to agree with others especially @Euapp that beyond the argument of ciswomen being underrepresented, I can't see the rationale for this decision.

Yeah not sure how for chess it'll increase female participation or how the number of transwomen in women's chess is significant enough to discourage ciswomen from playing chess unlike for other sports.

Could have things like more chess clubs instead if we truly wanted to encourage more ciswomen to get involved in playing chess and entering competitions.

Well I think that is the only reason. If it weren't for the underrepresentation of women I doubt we'd have women-only competitions.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that the presence of trans women discourages women from participating. It probably doesn't make much difference; there are hardly any trans people in chess to begin with. Rather, the idea is that the mere existence of a women's category allows exceptional female players to earn prizes, titles and recognition, even though they may not rank as highly as the best male player as a result of it. We could allow trans women to compete in this category as well; it wouldn't be a big deal. The only problem is that it would make it very impractical to try and enforce the restriction against men competing.

Yes, agree with that.