Applying at Oxford, Cambridge and Russells group
So, I have worked my ass of to get A First Class honours in Computer Science and now I will be applying at Oxford, Cambridge and ICL. How likely would i get accepted?And I have also achieved some other computer science related certificates i.e. CEH and CISSPI'm concerned about my previous qualifications A levels - B(comp sci) C(maths) D(physics) and GCSEs done fairly well - 9(geo), 8(comp), 87(sci), 7(maths), 6(history) ,(6 ,5 english), 4(religious studies )
Original post by Zephyr0221
So, I have worked my ass of to get A First Class honours in Computer Science and now I will be applying at Oxford, Cambridge and ICL. How likely would i get accepted?And I have also achieved some other computer science related certificates i.e. CEH and CISSPI'm concerned about my previous qualifications A levels - B(comp sci) C(maths) D(physics) and GCSEs done fairly well - 9(geo), 8(comp), 87(sci), 7(maths), 6(history) ,(6 ,5 english), 4(religious studies )
Why the obsession with Russel Group? You do know the term only came about because a group of Vice Chancellors from random universities happened to meet up in a bar in Russel Square in London? It is all smoke and mirrors.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/sep/10/is-the-russell-group-still-relevant
What is your ultimate goal because if it is employment, most software recruitment managers couldn't care less what certificates you have if you can't do the job. So if you really want a job, start posting responses on Stack Overflow, or creating a website to show off the projects you have so far completed. That is worth a gazillion Cambridge 1st class honours degrees.
Original post by hotpud
Why the obsession with Russel Group? You do know the term only came about because a group of Vice Chancellors from random universities happened to meet up in a bar in Russel Square in London? It is all smoke and mirrors.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/sep/10/is-the-russell-group-still-relevant
What is your ultimate goal because if it is employment, most software recruitment managers couldn't care less what certificates you have if you can't do the job. So if you really want a job, start posting responses on Stack Overflow, or creating a website to show off the projects you have so far completed. That is worth a gazillion Cambridge 1st class honours degrees.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/sep/10/is-the-russell-group-still-relevant
What is your ultimate goal because if it is employment, most software recruitment managers couldn't care less what certificates you have if you can't do the job. So if you really want a job, start posting responses on Stack Overflow, or creating a website to show off the projects you have so far completed. That is worth a gazillion Cambridge 1st class honours degrees.
Yes, you are right but I’m thinking of doing Masters in these universities. Honestly, if I get a good degree saying in these unis then I’m more likely to be considered by the companies right?
I will work on websites!! Thank you very much for your suggestion
Original post by Zephyr0221
Yes, you are right but I’m thinking of doing Masters in these universities. Honestly, if I get a good degree saying in these unis then I’m more likely to be considered by the companies right?
Wrong. Companies don't care for the colour of your tie. They care for what you can do and specifically what skills you have. All a degree says is that you are good at sitting exams which sadly isn't a skill companies are looking for.
What soft skills do you have? Leadership? Teamworking? Problem solving? etc etc. That is what companies are looking for. Everyone who is anyone has a 1st Masters from Cambridge but it doesn't mean they can do the job.
Original post by hotpud
Wrong. Companies don't care for the colour of your tie. They care for what you can do and specifically what skills you have. All a degree says is that you are good at sitting exams which sadly isn't a skill companies are looking for.
What soft skills do you have? Leadership? Teamworking? Problem solving? etc etc. That is what companies are looking for. Everyone who is anyone has a 1st Masters from Cambridge but it doesn't mean they can do the job.
What soft skills do you have? Leadership? Teamworking? Problem solving? etc etc. That is what companies are looking for. Everyone who is anyone has a 1st Masters from Cambridge but it doesn't mean they can do the job.
So which university should i consider applying? It’s quite shocking that companies don’t look at what uni you come from… then what skills should I learn?
Thanks
Original post by Zephyr0221
So, I have worked my ass of to get A First Class honours in Computer Science and now I will be applying at Oxford, Cambridge and ICL. How likely would i get accepted?And I have also achieved some other computer science related certificates i.e. CEH and CISSPI'm concerned about my previous qualifications A levels - B(comp sci) C(maths) D(physics) and GCSEs done fairly well - 9(geo), 8(comp), 87(sci), 7(maths), 6(history) ,(6 ,5 english), 4(religious studies )
Assuming this is for a masters degree or PhD. Your GCSEs and A-levels are irrelevant. The certificates are probably not relevant for those unis as they focus so much on the academic side of CS really. A first class degree is the main thing you want to have and you have it. Hopefully you had a good result in your dissertation; if you had any additional research experience that would be good as well.
Note that in general taught masters degrees are often somewhat less competitive than undergraduate degrees because the much more limited masters funding means that there is considerable self selection out of those in the first place due to finance limitations. So honestly having a 1st, particularly if from a strong-ish CS department, will probably be largely sufficient - but you'll need to find a way to fund it all.
If you're applying to a PhD a good research proposal or carefully tailored application to an existing project with funding (as applicable) will be quite important I gather. Note that for PhDs, sometimes applying for funding is separate to applying for the PhD, and sometimes you may apply for both but only be offered the PhD but without funding. Generally the funding is the hard part to make a successful application for (I have a friend who applied to Cambridge and was offered a PhD but without funding - he turned it down in the end as he was hoping to continue in academia and a self-funded PhD holds some stigma in that regard).
Original post by Zephyr0221
So which university should i consider applying? It’s quite shocking that companies don’t look at what uni you come from… then what skills should I learn?
Thanks
Thanks
Oh come on. Right now, you are presenting yourself as unemployable. You certainly need to work on your problem solving skills and ability to think for yourself.
What do you want to do? What skills are required to do that job? Get those skills! I will let you figure out which university to go to, but I would suggest doing a degree that helps you get the job you want to do at a university that provides what you are looking for in an environment you will enjoy being in.
Why is it so surprising that employers aren't interested in which university you went to? If you are interviewing a philosophy student for a cyber security job, what does it matter if they went to Oxford of Bolton? Surely the thing they are trying to find out is if they have the potential or the skills to do the actual job?
Some employers will use university to reduce application piles from 100 down to 10 candidates to interview, but I wouldn't touch a company like that and even those companies are getting wise to the fact this method doesn't produce only the best candidates.
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by hotpud
Oh come on. Right now, you are presenting yourself as unemployable. You certainly need to work on your problem solving skills and ability to think for yourself.
What do you want to do? What skills are required to do that job? Get those skills! I will let you figure out which university to go to, but I would suggest doing a degree that helps you get the job you want to do at a university that provides what you are looking for in an environment you will enjoy being in.
Why is it so surprising that employers aren't interested in which university you went to? If you are interviewing a philosophy student for a cyber security job, what does it matter if they went to Oxford of Bolton? Surely the thing they are trying to find out is if they have the potential or the skills to do the actual job?
Some employers will use university to reduce application piles from 100 down to 10 candidates to interview, but I wouldn't touch a company like that and even those companies are getting wise to the fact this method doesn't produce only the best candidates.
What do you want to do? What skills are required to do that job? Get those skills! I will let you figure out which university to go to, but I would suggest doing a degree that helps you get the job you want to do at a university that provides what you are looking for in an environment you will enjoy being in.
Why is it so surprising that employers aren't interested in which university you went to? If you are interviewing a philosophy student for a cyber security job, what does it matter if they went to Oxford of Bolton? Surely the thing they are trying to find out is if they have the potential or the skills to do the actual job?
Some employers will use university to reduce application piles from 100 down to 10 candidates to interview, but I wouldn't touch a company like that and even those companies are getting wise to the fact this method doesn't produce only the best candidates.
Spot on, I’m convinced thanks for the reply!
I’ll see which uni is better for my field 🤝
Original post by hotpud
Oh come on. Right now, you are presenting yourself as unemployable. You certainly need to work on your problem solving skills and ability to think for yourself.
What do you want to do? What skills are required to do that job? Get those skills! I will let you figure out which university to go to, but I would suggest doing a degree that helps you get the job you want to do at a university that provides what you are looking for in an environment you will enjoy being in.
Why is it so surprising that employers aren't interested in which university you went to? If you are interviewing a philosophy student for a cyber security job, what does it matter if they went to Oxford of Bolton? Surely the thing they are trying to find out is if they have the potential or the skills to do the actual job?
Some employers will use university to reduce application piles from 100 down to 10 candidates to interview, but I wouldn't touch a company like that and even those companies are getting wise to the fact this method doesn't produce only the best candidates.
What do you want to do? What skills are required to do that job? Get those skills! I will let you figure out which university to go to, but I would suggest doing a degree that helps you get the job you want to do at a university that provides what you are looking for in an environment you will enjoy being in.
Why is it so surprising that employers aren't interested in which university you went to? If you are interviewing a philosophy student for a cyber security job, what does it matter if they went to Oxford of Bolton? Surely the thing they are trying to find out is if they have the potential or the skills to do the actual job?
Some employers will use university to reduce application piles from 100 down to 10 candidates to interview, but I wouldn't touch a company like that and even those companies are getting wise to the fact this method doesn't produce only the best candidates.
Some warwick grad was saying how a company who hired based from prestige literally couldn't get the job done , also I think I recall blue cow rejecting a cv that had a top uni in it and no relevant projects probably for data analytics..
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by hotpud
Why the obsession with Russel Group? You do know the term only came about because a group of Vice Chancellors from random universities happened to meet up in a bar in Russel Square in London? It is all smoke and mirrors.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/sep/10/is-the-russell-group-still-relevant
What is your ultimate goal because if it is employment, most software recruitment managers couldn't care less what certificates you have if you can't do the job. So if you really want a job, start posting responses on Stack Overflow, or creating a website to show off the projects you have so far completed. That is worth a gazillion Cambridge 1st class honours degrees.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/sep/10/is-the-russell-group-still-relevant
What is your ultimate goal because if it is employment, most software recruitment managers couldn't care less what certificates you have if you can't do the job. So if you really want a job, start posting responses on Stack Overflow, or creating a website to show off the projects you have so far completed. That is worth a gazillion Cambridge 1st class honours degrees.
Sorry for dumping unrelated info, but in many aspects (like let's say you want to be a barrister) there is a strong need for an Oxbridge (and Ivy’s like Harvard, I’m serious) degree - I’ll go as far as saying the UK (both employers and students/regular citizens) has a (rather serious) Oxford fetishism that even overshadows schools like LSE (aka supposedly the IB feeder). Plus 1s would open doors for top-notch PhDs/Masters and Grad Schools. Not everyone wants to stay in the same field.
(Sorry for using too much parenthesis, count it as a sign of low English fluency)
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by honestlywhocares
Sorry for dumping unrelated info, but in many aspects (like let's say you want to be a barrister) there is a strong need for an Oxbridge (and Ivy’s like Harvard, I’m serious) degree - I’ll go as far as saying the UK (both employers and students/regular citizens) has a (rather serious) Oxford fetishism that even overshadows schools like LSE (aka supposedly the IB feeder). Plus 1s would open doors for top-notch PhDs/Masters and Grad Schools. Not everyone wants to stay in the same field.
(Sorry for using too much parenthesis, count it as a sign of low English fluency)
(Sorry for using too much parenthesis, count it as a sign of low English fluency)
Well that's commercial law for you lol
Original post by Destoinyt-etete
Well that's commercial law for you lol
IMO you missed the point. While some fields might be “more in demand”, roughly you need to have the same qualifications for becoming a barrister regardless of what field of law you want to choose, am I wrong? If I am then excuse my rather poor knowledge!
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by Destoinyt-etete
Well that's commercial law for you lol
My point is, in so many fields Oxbridge seems to have an extremely powerful household name (“too” much I would say), even though I’m reluctant that their educations are superior to LSE (or even other top London unis). Seems to me is the only schools that beat them are the HYPSMs.
But I consider CS (and coding) as quite different from “regular” uni courses - much more akin to “craftsmanships”.
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by honestlywhocares
My point is, in so many fields Oxbridge seems to have an extremely powerful household name (“too” much I would say), even though I’m reluctant that their educations are superior to LSE (or even other top London unis). Seems to me is the only schools that beat them are the HYPSMs.
But I consider CS (and coding) as quite different from “regular” uni courses - much more akin to “craftsmanships”.
But I consider CS (and coding) as quite different from “regular” uni courses - much more akin to “craftsmanships”.
interesting.
Original post by Destoinyt-etete
interesting.
Interesting as in BS or genuinely you didn’t know (or observed) that? Tbh as an outsider how I see things might differ from how you Brits do.
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by honestlywhocares
My point is, in so many fields Oxbridge seems to have an extremely powerful household name (“too” much I would say), even though I’m reluctant that their educations are superior to LSE (or even other top London unis). Seems to me is the only schools that beat them are the HYPSMs.
But I consider CS (and coding) as quite different from “regular” uni courses - much more akin to “craftsmanships”.
But I consider CS (and coding) as quite different from “regular” uni courses - much more akin to “craftsmanships”.
That has changed - many companies recruit institution blind. In Engineering they want people who can apply knowledge so a year in inductry is important not Oxbridge,
Original post by honestlywhocares
Interesting as in BS or genuinely you didn’t know (or observed) that? Tbh as an outsider how I see things might differ from how you Brits do.
probably you are right tbh, heard ppl in investment banking really obsess over oxbridge over lse etc..
law is quite toxic in terms of prestige as well especially for training contracts,working for us firms,commercial law tbf
(edited 6 months ago)
Original post by honestlywhocares
Sorry for dumping unrelated info, but in many aspects (like let's say you want to be a barrister) there is a strong need for an Oxbridge (and Ivy’s like Harvard, I’m serious) degree - I’ll go as far as saying the UK (both employers and students/regular citizens) has a (rather serious) Oxford fetishism that even overshadows schools like LSE (aka supposedly the IB feeder). Plus 1s would open doors for top-notch PhDs/Masters and Grad Schools. Not everyone wants to stay in the same field.
(Sorry for using too much parenthesis, count it as a sign of low English fluency)
(Sorry for using too much parenthesis, count it as a sign of low English fluency)
I agree that we are obsessed with Oxbridge. I don't have a problem with Oxbridge or Russel group universities. If I could have my time again, I would give it a go. But people who go need to go for the right reasons and the assumption that going to Oxbridge = getting a good job almost guaranteed just doesn't add up.
Go to Oxbridge to experience what the best higher education in the country offers. Go to hob-knob with the wealthiest in the country. Go to immerse yourself in a culture which doesn't exist anywhere else. Go to an establishment knowing many opportunities for excellent education exist.
But don't go thinking it will automatically get you a top job. The people who get top jobs out of Oxbridge do so because their mum or dad / family made that happen for them. It isn't what you know for them, it is who you know.
For the rest of us, it is down to what you can do and what skills you have.
Thanks to all of the reply,
I will do very extensive research on this, And I have not yet come to a conclusion so I will continue researching. What @hotpud said in above thread completely makes sense "Its not what you know for them but who you know" I have an classic example, My fathers friend is an Associate Director at a very large cybersecurity company and he told me if you want this job, get a masters and I will put you in my team.
So you can see connections and networking is crazy important for everyone just not me. I'm just lucky, but for the sake of solid skill level and foundation I will go to a University which is good for the related field.
Overall, thanks to all of you! Please add anything you have from experience about this
I will do very extensive research on this, And I have not yet come to a conclusion so I will continue researching. What @hotpud said in above thread completely makes sense "Its not what you know for them but who you know" I have an classic example, My fathers friend is an Associate Director at a very large cybersecurity company and he told me if you want this job, get a masters and I will put you in my team.
So you can see connections and networking is crazy important for everyone just not me. I'm just lucky, but for the sake of solid skill level and foundation I will go to a University which is good for the related field.
Overall, thanks to all of you! Please add anything you have from experience about this
Original post by Zephyr0221
Thanks to all of the reply,
I will do very extensive research on this, And I have not yet come to a conclusion so I will continue researching. What @hotpud said in above thread completely makes sense "Its not what you know for them but who you know" I have an classic example, My fathers friend is an Associate Director at a very large cybersecurity company and he told me if you want this job, get a masters and I will put you in my team.
I will do very extensive research on this, And I have not yet come to a conclusion so I will continue researching. What @hotpud said in above thread completely makes sense "Its not what you know for them but who you know" I have an classic example, My fathers friend is an Associate Director at a very large cybersecurity company and he told me if you want this job, get a masters and I will put you in my team.
Yes but... So if you know someone, good for you. But if you don't know someone it does boil down to what you know. The point of Russel Group universities is that if the people you know also went to the same uni as you, the colour of your tie is just another way for you to join the club. However if you are not a member of the club what you know is vastly more important and the colour of your tie is pretty much irrelevant.
But don't be phased. The vast majority of people get jobs based on merit and many of the older institutions that look after their own are fast dying, simply because the talent outside of nepotism is so good, those companies can't afford not to recruit the best rather than those from the clan.
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