Pay at the Bar
I'm conscious that pay varies hugely at the Bar, between practice areas, sets, and individuals (even the same individual in different years), so it's notoriously hard to say much concretely about pay at the Bar. However, I'm looking for any loose rules of thumb or anecdotal evidence regarding the below, that could form the basis of some high level financial planning.
Pay is by no means my main focus, but I would like to plan my finances to the extent possible. In case relevant, my focus is on the Employment law Bar (albeit likely with some Commercial work).
My questions are:
1) What relation does the pupillage award bear to expected earnings for very junior practitioners? I assume baby juniors would generally be expected to earn more than what they were awarded during pupillage, but I don't have a sense of how much of a jump (proportionally speaking) one would expect, and I know baby juniors unlike pupils start incurring costs e.g. rent. After accounting for costs, would it be fair to assume a 30-50% increase in income for a baby junior in their first few years of practice?
2) How much less would (generally respondent-focused) employment law barristers expect to earn than their commercial and commercial/chancery counterparts, assuming similar levels of activity etc? I know they will earn less, but I don't have a sense if that means e.g. 25-30% less or more like e.g. 75% less.
3) Do very junior practitioners have scope to build their practice towards more lucrative areas of work, or is that only generally possible several years down the track?
Pay is by no means my main focus, but I would like to plan my finances to the extent possible. In case relevant, my focus is on the Employment law Bar (albeit likely with some Commercial work).
My questions are:
1) What relation does the pupillage award bear to expected earnings for very junior practitioners? I assume baby juniors would generally be expected to earn more than what they were awarded during pupillage, but I don't have a sense of how much of a jump (proportionally speaking) one would expect, and I know baby juniors unlike pupils start incurring costs e.g. rent. After accounting for costs, would it be fair to assume a 30-50% increase in income for a baby junior in their first few years of practice?
2) How much less would (generally respondent-focused) employment law barristers expect to earn than their commercial and commercial/chancery counterparts, assuming similar levels of activity etc? I know they will earn less, but I don't have a sense if that means e.g. 25-30% less or more like e.g. 75% less.
3) Do very junior practitioners have scope to build their practice towards more lucrative areas of work, or is that only generally possible several years down the track?
Original post by 10111994
I'm conscious that pay varies hugely at the Bar, between practice areas, sets, and individuals (even the same individual in different years), so it's notoriously hard to say much concretely about pay at the Bar. However, I'm looking for any loose rules of thumb or anecdotal evidence regarding the below, that could form the basis of some high level financial planning.
Pay is by no means my main focus, but I would like to plan my finances to the extent possible. In case relevant, my focus is on the Employment law Bar (albeit likely with some Commercial work).
My questions are:
1) What relation does the pupillage award bear to expected earnings for very junior practitioners? I assume baby juniors would generally be expected to earn more than what they were awarded during pupillage, but I don't have a sense of how much of a jump (proportionally speaking) one would expect, and I know baby juniors unlike pupils start incurring costs e.g. rent. After accounting for costs, would it be fair to assume a 30-50% increase in income for a baby junior in their first few years of practice?
2) How much less would (generally respondent-focused) employment law barristers expect to earn than their commercial and commercial/chancery counterparts, assuming similar levels of activity etc? I know they will earn less, but I don't have a sense if that means e.g. 25-30% less or more like e.g. 75% less.
3) Do very junior practitioners have scope to build their practice towards more lucrative areas of work, or is that only generally possible several years down the track?
Pay is by no means my main focus, but I would like to plan my finances to the extent possible. In case relevant, my focus is on the Employment law Bar (albeit likely with some Commercial work).
My questions are:
1) What relation does the pupillage award bear to expected earnings for very junior practitioners? I assume baby juniors would generally be expected to earn more than what they were awarded during pupillage, but I don't have a sense of how much of a jump (proportionally speaking) one would expect, and I know baby juniors unlike pupils start incurring costs e.g. rent. After accounting for costs, would it be fair to assume a 30-50% increase in income for a baby junior in their first few years of practice?
2) How much less would (generally respondent-focused) employment law barristers expect to earn than their commercial and commercial/chancery counterparts, assuming similar levels of activity etc? I know they will earn less, but I don't have a sense if that means e.g. 25-30% less or more like e.g. 75% less.
3) Do very junior practitioners have scope to build their practice towards more lucrative areas of work, or is that only generally possible several years down the track?
1) There is some correlation between practice areas in that, for example, pupillage awards for criminal pupillages tend to be lower than other more lucrative areas, and the larger criminal pupillage awards aren't generally as large as the largest awards in other areas. But as a correlation between a specific award in a specific set and what an individual pupil might expect to see as an increase when they become a tenant, it is nearly impossible to say. Not just because that comes down to individual circumstances, but because you'll find sets that offer one pupillage award despite taking on multiple pupils in different practice areas that will naturally probably pay differently. Very broadly, sets that offer higher awards are likely to provide greater earning capacity for new tenants, but that's a rule that mainly sets the very best sets (mostly in London) apart from the others. It doesn't help when you get into more moderate awards where the awards themselves don't really tell you anything. So no, apart from potentially denoting broadly better sets, the awards themselves aren't an accurate reflection of how you early earnings might go in my view.
2) Again, this just varies so wildly depending on where you are practising, how good you are, the specific opportunities available to you etc. It's not the case that every employment practitioner will earn less than an equivalent commercial practitioner. Again, a set like Littleton or 11KBW will probably offer employment work that could rival more moderate commercial sets in terms of new tenants and earning capacity. For equivalent sets, again the variables are so wide. It could be 25%-30%, or it could be 75% in some circumstances. You just can't generalise with it.
3) Depends on the set. If you're at one of the bigger London sets you will be involved in big cases from the start to one degree or another, and will get opportunities to be lead etc that most other sets don't offer. That work can be lucrative despite you not doing work on your own account. At most sets, though, you will be expected to do your fair share of the lower paying work early on in your career, though again what 'lower paying' means varies from set to set. There are opportunities to broaden your practice now and again, but it's very difficult to predict them. For example, a friend of mine did a personal injury pupillage but got an opportunity to do an inquest pretty early on in his career, and now he specialises in them. Equally, a relatively new tenant at my set has started to do some of the niche work that I do in my practice (because I can't handle it all), and the hearings in that area most certainly pay her a lot more than you'd expect from someone in her situation generally. But that's extremely context specific. Being a barrister generally is about making the most of opportunities that come your way, but no one can really predict what those will be.
Just as a general note, if you're aiming for an employment practice, I don't think you need to be worried about the amount of money you'll be making, even in the context of long term financial planning. The fact that you're thinking about long term financial planning at all is a really good sign, because so many barristers do not handle their money well at all, let alone plan for it in the future. With even a half decent employment practice you will almost certainly be earning enough money that if you manage it even half competently, you won't realistically have to worry about money unless you have a pretty lucrative lifestyle. As a very general rule of thumb, with an employment practice I'd expect you to get up to £100,000+ gross earnings certainly within five years (but probably quicker) and £200,000+ within ten years (but probably quicker). Those are fairly conservative estimates for a decent employment practice, but at the better sets (both in London and regionally) you may well exceed those comfortably. But that sort of money will allow you to decide year to year what to do in terms of long term financial planning. For example, once you start to earn higher levels you may just want to pay into a particular pension or fund by way of a direct debit, but earlier on if you can predict that your earnings will be around the £100k-£120k level, you might want to put more money into a pension to take advantage of the tax benefits and that level, so it might be better to wait until you know your income up to the end of March (assuming an April year end) and can roughly estimate your outgoings to decide how much to put into a pension all in one go before the new tax year. You can also, obviously, get someone to help you with all of this as well, depending on how knowledgeable you are personally.
So yeah, it's not something that I think you need to worry about. Unless you come from money or have a lot of money and have particularly lofty ambitions as to how much you want to accumulate, just about any decent employment practice will give you more than enough money to comfortably hit your goals.
On comparison with commerical law, I would say that using Jamie's figures, you would expect earnings of the following roughly for a london band 1 comemrical / commerical chancery set gross of everything:
Year 1: £100k
Year 2: £150k
Year 3: £200k
Year 4: £250k
These are rough levels, and will fluctuate depending on whether you are doing more trials, etc, and with how much work you take on over the year. This is with reasonable work life balance and also on the more conservative side - I know people who hit £250k gross on year 2 for example (I did not, but I also saw my family...). The increase generally comes from the fact that your rates signficaintly increase over the first few years. The bigger issue is also when you actually get the money...
On the penison poins:
Do speak to a financial adviser - once you get to the high amounts, pensions become less tax efficient as Jamie indicated. Similarly, you can rollover your pension allowances, so if you don't put any in at the start, its not the end of the world - if I recall you can use hte last three years and still get the tax relief.
Year 1: £100k
Year 2: £150k
Year 3: £200k
Year 4: £250k
These are rough levels, and will fluctuate depending on whether you are doing more trials, etc, and with how much work you take on over the year. This is with reasonable work life balance and also on the more conservative side - I know people who hit £250k gross on year 2 for example (I did not, but I also saw my family...). The increase generally comes from the fact that your rates signficaintly increase over the first few years. The bigger issue is also when you actually get the money...
On the penison poins:
Original post by Crazy Jamie
For example, once you start to earn higher levels you may just want to pay into a particular pension or fund by way of a direct debit, but earlier on if you can predict that your earnings will be around the £100k-£120k level, you might want to put more money into a pension to take advantage of the tax benefits and that level, so it might be better to wait until you know your income up to the end of March (assuming an April year end) and can roughly estimate your outgoings to decide how much to put into a pension all in one go before the new tax year. You can also, obviously, get someone to help you with all of this as well, depending on how knowledgeable you are personally.
So yeah, it's not something that I think you need to worry about. Unless you come from money or have a lot of money and have particularly lofty ambitions as to how much you want to accumulate, just about any decent employment practice will give you more than enough money to comfortably hit your goals.
So yeah, it's not something that I think you need to worry about. Unless you come from money or have a lot of money and have particularly lofty ambitions as to how much you want to accumulate, just about any decent employment practice will give you more than enough money to comfortably hit your goals.
Do speak to a financial adviser - once you get to the high amounts, pensions become less tax efficient as Jamie indicated. Similarly, you can rollover your pension allowances, so if you don't put any in at the start, its not the end of the world - if I recall you can use hte last three years and still get the tax relief.
(edited 5 months ago)
Original post by Blayze
On comparison with commerical law, I would say that using Jamie's figures, you would expect earnings of the following roughly for a london band 1 comemrical / commerical chancery set gross of everything:
Year 1: £100k
Year 2: £150k
Year 3: £200k
Year 4: £250k
These are rough levels, and will fluctuate depending on whether you are doing more trials, etc, and with how much work you take on over the year. This is with reasonable work life balance and also on the more conservative side - I know people who hit £250k gross on year 2 for example (I did not, put I also saw my family...). The increase generally comes from the fact that your rates signficaintly increase over the first few years. The bigger issue is also when you actually get the money...
On the penison poins:
Do speak to a financial adviser - once you get to the high amounts, pensions become less tax efficient as Jamie indicated. Similarly, you can rollover your pension allowances, so if you don't put any in at the start, its not the end of the world - if I recall you can use hte last three years and still get the tax relief.
Year 1: £100k
Year 2: £150k
Year 3: £200k
Year 4: £250k
These are rough levels, and will fluctuate depending on whether you are doing more trials, etc, and with how much work you take on over the year. This is with reasonable work life balance and also on the more conservative side - I know people who hit £250k gross on year 2 for example (I did not, put I also saw my family...). The increase generally comes from the fact that your rates signficaintly increase over the first few years. The bigger issue is also when you actually get the money...
On the penison poins:
Do speak to a financial adviser - once you get to the high amounts, pensions become less tax efficient as Jamie indicated. Similarly, you can rollover your pension allowances, so if you don't put any in at the start, its not the end of the world - if I recall you can use hte last three years and still get the tax relief.
Yeah it's not my area and barristers don't tend to talk to each other about the amount that they earn, but anecdotally from barristers that I have known well enough to talk pay with, I know of two commercial barristers outside of London (one doing more standard commercial work, and one with a more niche chancery practice) who were making over £300k by the time they hit ten years call. One of them has since moved to a top tier London set for the type of work that he does, and his earning capacity has, accordingly, increased.
There are other variables to mention here as well outside of your actual practice. Blayze has referenced at least vaguely having a work/life balance, and that seems to be something that is becoming much more prominent at the Bar at the moment. There at least seems to be a growing view since the pandemic among quite a few barristers that I know who have children that we can and should be working less and earning less to strike more of a balance, because frankly we can afford to do that and there comes a point where spending more time with your children and supporting your other half is more important than pushing yourself and earning another £50,000. That's never as easy as it sounds at the Bar, but you can make it easier by planning with your clerks. You can also diversify your practice by becoming a part time judge, for example, which is a role that will likely earn you less money pound for pound, but may help you with the work/life balance, and it does have the benefit of getting you a decent pension on the amounts you do earn as a judge. I've held various part time judicial roles for about five years, and it really helps if, for example, I can sit at my local county court, because I know I'll be able to take my kids to school, and will be done in time to get home and make dinner. I won't earn as much as in private practice, but as I say, some things are more important. And you might find that being a judge suits you. I really enjoy it personally, and there's at least one chancery barrister in London who was in my cohort who sits quite a lot as a judge because even though he earns a lot more money in his practice, he doesn't find it interesting any more, so uses the sitting as a way to diversify his work life. All of these things are examples, but just underlines how many different directions your work can go in when you become a barrister.
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