Computer Game Degrees - The next big scandal
As a graduate of a computer game-related degree (achieving a high First), it's my opinion that it's a scandal in waiting. Here's why
The courses are predatory in nature, with universities relying on young people's emotional connection with games to get sign-ups. The people signing up for these courses are generally those who are passionate about playing games, and who have no sense of reality of the workplace or prospects later in life.
The courses are mis-sold and statistics surrounding employment within the industry as a graduate are largely fabricated. The university I went to boasted of a 90% industry employment rate post-graduation. This is not true. In a five-year period, I analysed the employment rate of those who went into game-related careers, with less than 2% of all graduates making it into the gaming industry or a related field from my specific industry. In a class of 30 pupils per year, less than one student (on average) will make it in the games industry. According to data, 25% of graduates had no job at all (in any sector).
Poor overall prospects
Post graduation, my university has an expected salary which is considerably less than the UK average. This is mirrored across most game-related studies. The average salary post-university is listed as £19k.
Numbers are being inflated as they push you towards creating an independent studio. A key selling point for most game courses is that many students go on to create their own companies. This is encouraged throughout your time at university as it helps them inflate numbers in employment. I have yet to come across a single graduate team that has made anything close to a successful game. It is nearly impossible for a team of graduates to compete in this sector as they lack experience and the games sector is extremely saturated.
Selling a false dream
They get you to believe you can make it in industry and never provide any insight into the realities of gaining employment in the sector.
Most worryingly, the amount of students I found to be of Additional Learning needs was extremely high in comparison to other courses. They are taking advantage of those who are less fortunate by selling them the game development dream. The entry level seems to be very low, and even those who miserably fail the course are given multiple opportunities to pass.
A Mickey Mouse course
Game related courses should be not eligible for student funding. They provide little to no chance of working in games as a career. Teaching quality is poor and they are ripping off students. They must surely be aware of statistics from graduates, which makes it even worse.
Take a more generic Computer Science course if you are looking to get into the industry. These courses are a scam.
The courses are predatory in nature, with universities relying on young people's emotional connection with games to get sign-ups. The people signing up for these courses are generally those who are passionate about playing games, and who have no sense of reality of the workplace or prospects later in life.
The courses are mis-sold and statistics surrounding employment within the industry as a graduate are largely fabricated. The university I went to boasted of a 90% industry employment rate post-graduation. This is not true. In a five-year period, I analysed the employment rate of those who went into game-related careers, with less than 2% of all graduates making it into the gaming industry or a related field from my specific industry. In a class of 30 pupils per year, less than one student (on average) will make it in the games industry. According to data, 25% of graduates had no job at all (in any sector).
Poor overall prospects
Post graduation, my university has an expected salary which is considerably less than the UK average. This is mirrored across most game-related studies. The average salary post-university is listed as £19k.
Numbers are being inflated as they push you towards creating an independent studio. A key selling point for most game courses is that many students go on to create their own companies. This is encouraged throughout your time at university as it helps them inflate numbers in employment. I have yet to come across a single graduate team that has made anything close to a successful game. It is nearly impossible for a team of graduates to compete in this sector as they lack experience and the games sector is extremely saturated.
Selling a false dream
They get you to believe you can make it in industry and never provide any insight into the realities of gaining employment in the sector.
Most worryingly, the amount of students I found to be of Additional Learning needs was extremely high in comparison to other courses. They are taking advantage of those who are less fortunate by selling them the game development dream. The entry level seems to be very low, and even those who miserably fail the course are given multiple opportunities to pass.
A Mickey Mouse course
Game related courses should be not eligible for student funding. They provide little to no chance of working in games as a career. Teaching quality is poor and they are ripping off students. They must surely be aware of statistics from graduates, which makes it even worse.
Take a more generic Computer Science course if you are looking to get into the industry. These courses are a scam.
Which university did you attend?
Reply 2
faraway4
OP
1
Original post
by PQWhich university did you attend?
Hi! I studied Game Art at DMU. In 2022 I interviewed for an internship year at a AAA company, and I was offered to stay on for my final year, which my university facilitated (meaning I worked full time while completing my degree, with minimal contact from my university.... which for the record, they charged me full fees for....)
So right now, I'm an associate technical artist with ~2 years exp. at 22. I'm a pretty good success story. My uni's placement team certainly liked to use me as one. I'm saying this mostly to add some gravity to my point which is:
Games degrees do not teach you workplace skills. They often teach you how to make portfolio pieces.... but miss a lot of essential industry skills. I went into industry lacking literally dozens of essential skills. (I had never had to make LODs, or a single destructible asset) A lot of the ones I did have, I'd taught myself outside of Uni. (basic python, basic shader graphs, basic unreal blueprints). I'd worked pretty damn hard, for sure, and I had pretty good social skills/networking skills. But I still got pretty damn lucky. I was the only one in my year to go on a placement year. When my (original year) graduated, there were 5 others employed in games within a year of graduating, to my knowledge. (4/5 of which in more niche roles, like technical art, VFX and lighting... not in the "more arty" 3D modelling roles, that our uni kind of geared us up for.) And then we had 3 others from that year go into games-related education... i.e. teaching the course they had just graduated from.... which leads to this part:
The problem is generally the people that should be teaching games courses are busy ... actually working in games. Sure, there are definitely some people who take career breaks, or lecture part time, but I would say the vast majority of games course educators do not have industry experience. How can we expect people to learn how to go into this industry from people that have never been in it?
The "selling a dream", I definitely agree with. The expectation for graduates to form companies (with next to no business/entrepreneurial advice!) was also very prevalent. Absolutely crazy advice to give young people who have just gained 30k+ of student debt.
And my course had a comparatively high success rate (!) 5 in games out of a class of 55? (not counting myself, because I technically graduate this year) 9%...? It's still not great odds. If we include the educators as well that makes it 14.5%. The 2 years before had notably less (covid graduates).
I'll disagree on your last point. I don't think we should prevent people from being able to study games. If it weren't for my course I wouldn't have my job in games. We don't have a great success rate, but I think we should be working out how to fix that, not just scrapping it completely. I wish there were better ways to identify good games courses... This is definitely improving - Screenskills is alright, but the new Unreal academic accreditation is even better. Doing more generic courses is advised to everyone, ever, but I think had I opted for a more generic course, I would have done something like graphic design.... I kind of doubt I'd be better off for it, honestly. I think there's better answers than making games courses pay-to-win. (hah!) We need better educators, better ways of identifying good universities, better ways of advocating for better games education from inside the industry, without just crushing dreams.
(Feel free to throw me questions. I love questions. I hope any of this was interesting.)
So right now, I'm an associate technical artist with ~2 years exp. at 22. I'm a pretty good success story. My uni's placement team certainly liked to use me as one. I'm saying this mostly to add some gravity to my point which is:
Games degrees do not teach you workplace skills. They often teach you how to make portfolio pieces.... but miss a lot of essential industry skills. I went into industry lacking literally dozens of essential skills. (I had never had to make LODs, or a single destructible asset) A lot of the ones I did have, I'd taught myself outside of Uni. (basic python, basic shader graphs, basic unreal blueprints). I'd worked pretty damn hard, for sure, and I had pretty good social skills/networking skills. But I still got pretty damn lucky. I was the only one in my year to go on a placement year. When my (original year) graduated, there were 5 others employed in games within a year of graduating, to my knowledge. (4/5 of which in more niche roles, like technical art, VFX and lighting... not in the "more arty" 3D modelling roles, that our uni kind of geared us up for.) And then we had 3 others from that year go into games-related education... i.e. teaching the course they had just graduated from.... which leads to this part:
The problem is generally the people that should be teaching games courses are busy ... actually working in games. Sure, there are definitely some people who take career breaks, or lecture part time, but I would say the vast majority of games course educators do not have industry experience. How can we expect people to learn how to go into this industry from people that have never been in it?
The "selling a dream", I definitely agree with. The expectation for graduates to form companies (with next to no business/entrepreneurial advice!) was also very prevalent. Absolutely crazy advice to give young people who have just gained 30k+ of student debt.
And my course had a comparatively high success rate (!) 5 in games out of a class of 55? (not counting myself, because I technically graduate this year) 9%...? It's still not great odds. If we include the educators as well that makes it 14.5%. The 2 years before had notably less (covid graduates).
I'll disagree on your last point. I don't think we should prevent people from being able to study games. If it weren't for my course I wouldn't have my job in games. We don't have a great success rate, but I think we should be working out how to fix that, not just scrapping it completely. I wish there were better ways to identify good games courses... This is definitely improving - Screenskills is alright, but the new Unreal academic accreditation is even better. Doing more generic courses is advised to everyone, ever, but I think had I opted for a more generic course, I would have done something like graphic design.... I kind of doubt I'd be better off for it, honestly. I think there's better answers than making games courses pay-to-win. (hah!) We need better educators, better ways of identifying good universities, better ways of advocating for better games education from inside the industry, without just crushing dreams.
(Feel free to throw me questions. I love questions. I hope any of this was interesting.)
(edited 5 months ago)
Reply 4
18
Original post
by faraway4As a graduate of a computer game-related degree (achieving a high First), it's my opinion that it's a scandal in waiting. Here's why
The courses are predatory in nature, with universities relying on young people's emotional connection with games to get sign-ups. The people signing up for these courses are generally those who are passionate about playing games, and who have no sense of reality of the workplace or prospects later in life.
The courses are mis-sold and statistics surrounding employment within the industry as a graduate are largely fabricated. The university I went to boasted of a 90% industry employment rate post-graduation. This is not true. In a five-year period, I analysed the employment rate of those who went into game-related careers, with less than 2% of all graduates making it into the gaming industry or a related field from my specific industry. In a class of 30 pupils per year, less than one student (on average) will make it in the games industry. According to data, 25% of graduates had no job at all (in any sector).
Poor overall prospects
Post graduation, my university has an expected salary which is considerably less than the UK average. This is mirrored across most game-related studies. The average salary post-university is listed as £19k.
Numbers are being inflated as they push you towards creating an independent studio. A key selling point for most game courses is that many students go on to create their own companies. This is encouraged throughout your time at university as it helps them inflate numbers in employment. I have yet to come across a single graduate team that has made anything close to a successful game. It is nearly impossible for a team of graduates to compete in this sector as they lack experience and the games sector is extremely saturated.
Selling a false dream
They get you to believe you can make it in industry and never provide any insight into the realities of gaining employment in the sector.
Most worryingly, the amount of students I found to be of Additional Learning needs was extremely high in comparison to other courses. They are taking advantage of those who are less fortunate by selling them the game development dream. The entry level seems to be very low, and even those who miserably fail the course are given multiple opportunities to pass.
A Mickey Mouse course
Game related courses should be not eligible for student funding. They provide little to no chance of working in games as a career. Teaching quality is poor and they are ripping off students. They must surely be aware of statistics from graduates, which makes it even worse.
Take a more generic Computer Science course if you are looking to get into the industry. These courses are a scam.
The courses are predatory in nature, with universities relying on young people's emotional connection with games to get sign-ups. The people signing up for these courses are generally those who are passionate about playing games, and who have no sense of reality of the workplace or prospects later in life.
The courses are mis-sold and statistics surrounding employment within the industry as a graduate are largely fabricated. The university I went to boasted of a 90% industry employment rate post-graduation. This is not true. In a five-year period, I analysed the employment rate of those who went into game-related careers, with less than 2% of all graduates making it into the gaming industry or a related field from my specific industry. In a class of 30 pupils per year, less than one student (on average) will make it in the games industry. According to data, 25% of graduates had no job at all (in any sector).
Poor overall prospects
Post graduation, my university has an expected salary which is considerably less than the UK average. This is mirrored across most game-related studies. The average salary post-university is listed as £19k.
Numbers are being inflated as they push you towards creating an independent studio. A key selling point for most game courses is that many students go on to create their own companies. This is encouraged throughout your time at university as it helps them inflate numbers in employment. I have yet to come across a single graduate team that has made anything close to a successful game. It is nearly impossible for a team of graduates to compete in this sector as they lack experience and the games sector is extremely saturated.
Selling a false dream
They get you to believe you can make it in industry and never provide any insight into the realities of gaining employment in the sector.
Most worryingly, the amount of students I found to be of Additional Learning needs was extremely high in comparison to other courses. They are taking advantage of those who are less fortunate by selling them the game development dream. The entry level seems to be very low, and even those who miserably fail the course are given multiple opportunities to pass.
A Mickey Mouse course
Game related courses should be not eligible for student funding. They provide little to no chance of working in games as a career. Teaching quality is poor and they are ripping off students. They must surely be aware of statistics from graduates, which makes it even worse.
Take a more generic Computer Science course if you are looking to get into the industry. These courses are a scam.
I am sorry to hear you have had a bad experience. I think the single mistake undergraduates make is believing that getting a degree one way or another will lead to a job. This is not the case and has not been for many many years. Employers don't really care about the degree you have or the university you went to (another misconception amongst under grads). All they care about is what you know, what skills do you have and can you learn. As a result, students who go to university have skills in critical thinking, essay writing and exam taking. What employers are looking for are people who have interpersonal skills, organisation skills, team working, leadership qualities, problem solving etc etc.
So if you want to go into the games industry you need to find out what skills they are looking for. If you have a degree in gaming, that will help, but if you are not getting interviews, you are probably not ticking the boxes they are looking for. Find out what those boxes are and make sure you have those qualities.
Good luck!
Reply 5
Hi, i have just stumbled across this thread and am also studying a games design course (3rd year) what relevance do game analytics have in the design aspect, as i am struggling to justify why im learning analytics. I would also like to ask if doing a business module on how to run a business is actively helpful when i dont want to run my own business in the industry. i am trying my hardest to justify doing these modules but they make it really difficult.
Original post
by DomechoHi, i have just stumbled across this thread and am also studying a games design course (3rd year) what relevance do game analytics have in the design aspect, as i am struggling to justify why im learning analytics. I would also like to ask if doing a business module on how to run a business is actively helpful when i dont want to run my own business in the industry. i am trying my hardest to justify doing these modules but they make it really difficult.
Hey there,
It's going to be difficult to give you more in-depth advice without being able to read more about what your modules involve. What University are you attending (if you are comfortable sharing)?
Assuming Games analytics is about business decisions around publishing games (i.e. about how businesses make decisions on what games to release and fund) I think this is valuable for anyone in industry to know frankly. You might not need to use it as part of your day-to-day role but it's no doubt that those decisions will impact you as a developer and an understanding of why decisions may have been made (i.e. to cut a feature you've been working on, to cancel a game you've been developing, to move a team to another project etc) will probably make those "hard moments" easier to handle, knowing some of the business decisions that will have gone into making those decisions - so it can feel a bit less personal.
Much along the same lines having some basic information about copyright law and freelancing/financial literacy will help you if you ever do need to work freelance for a period of time - remember this industry is unstable and freelance/contract based work (especially in your early career) is incredibly common. It might not be actively helpful now, but it might be in the future - and even if it's not, it might help you support your friends, or have a better understanding of the wider industry.
Obviously, if these modules are optional and you don't want to do them, then sure - give it some thought, work it out, do other things if that interests you more. But generally all of them will have some kind of applied use to you eventually.
If you want to talk more about this or ask me any other Qs, can I ask you to make a new thread and tag me in it (@aspalax)? As this thread is a year old and it can help other people find threads that are relevant to them. Thanks so much
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