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Consultant sued NHS after being told to roll up sleeves like other doctors

An NHS consultant has lost a discrimination case after being told to roll up her sleeves at work.

Dr Fahrat Butt is Muslim and wears a hijab, covering everything other than her hands, feet and face while in public.

She says she was ‘racially profiled’ and ‘bullied’ by managers into exposing her forearms at work but she has lost her case after a judge ruled ‘not everything that happens in the workplace to a Muslim worker will be related to religion’.

Dr Butt stepped out into a corridor on December 6, 2022, and because she believed it was a non-clinical area, she didn’t think she needed to comply with the ‘bare below the elbow’ hygiene policy.


https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/26/consultant-sued-nhs-told-roll-sleeves-like-doctors-20533715/

She lost her case. I know that the UK isn’t like France in that you can wear religious clothing in state buildings but despite this, as a doctor (I don’t know or practice medicine) I’m sure that the policies exist for a reason.
(edited 1 month ago)
Reply 1
It's simple infection control.
So rather than rolling her sleeves up, she got arsey and then started crying about discrimination when things escalated?
Reply 3
Original post by Gazpacho.
So rather than rolling her sleeves up, she got arsey and then started crying about discrimination when things escalated?

And they found that she escalated the situation, too!
Original post by gjd800
It's simple infection control.

I think I read there's apparently somewhat limited evidence base for this policy?

Skimming through some articles the concept seems to be based on evidence that white coats when not regularly laundered at high temperature like scrubs can harbour bacteria in the sleeves which then may be passed on to a patient. I can't see any immediately that compare economically similar regions with or without this policy (e.g. comparing a UK hospital to one in the EU without that policy, or potentially in the US) to see if those not using it see higher rates of nosocomial infections than those that do though.

Also it seems to be assumed that the correlation is due to the length of the sleeves and not the frequency of laundering - as a number of studies seemed to indicate that those when given the option between the two that maintain a bare below elbows dress are more frequent in laundering and also more likely to demonstrate proper handwashing technique. I suppose it's possible then that even if the bare below elbows policy leads to improved outcomes it may not be due to the sleeves so much as putting workers in mind of the hygiene of their hands and lower arms.

There might be some papers out there that did look at those other bits though as I didn't really look that much into it and it seems like something that is a bit of a hot button topic so it would be surprising if there wasn't much follow up on those matters!

Original post by Talkative Toad
https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/26/consultant-sued-nhs-told-roll-sleeves-like-doctors-20533715/

She lost her case. I know that the UK isn’t like France in that you can wear religious clothing in state buildings but despite this, as a doctor (I don’t know or practice medicine) I’m sure that the policies exist for a reason.


In any event the article in question seems to have come to the conclusion that the whole thing was more predicated around confusion of where clinical vs non-clinical areas are due to poor signage, although the lawsuit was due to the doctor seeming to misinterpret this as a religiously motivated prejudice. So probably largely avoidable with better signage and communication. The headline is misleading as it implies it was due to the sleeves and not due to a perceived experience of prejudice (which it was determined by the judge that in the course of the tribunal did not occur in this incident).
Reply 5
Original post by artful_lounger
I think I read there's apparently somewhat limited evidence base for this policy?
Skimming through some articles the concept seems to be based on evidence that white coats when not regularly laundered at high temperature like scrubs can harbour bacteria in the sleeves which then may be passed on to a patient. I can't see any immediately that compare economically similar regions with or without this policy (e.g. comparing a UK hospital to one in the EU without that policy, or potentially in the US) to see if those not using it see higher rates of nosocomial infections than those that do though.
Also it seems to be assumed that the correlation is due to the length of the sleeves and not the frequency of laundering - as a number of studies seemed to indicate that those when given the option between the two that maintain a bare below elbows dress are more frequent in laundering and also more likely to demonstrate proper handwashing technique. I suppose it's possible then that even if the bare below elbows policy leads to improved outcomes it may not be due to the sleeves so much as putting workers in mind of the hygiene of their hands and lower arms.
There might be some papers out there that did look at those other bits though as I didn't really look that much into it and it seems like something that is a bit of a hot button topic so it would be surprising if there wasn't much follow up on those matters!
In any event the article in question seems to have come to the conclusion that the whole thing was more predicated around confusion of where clinical vs non-clinical areas are due to poor signage, although the lawsuit was due to the doctor seeming to misinterpret this as a religiously motivated prejudice. So probably largely avoidable with better signage and communication. The headline is misleading as it implies it was due to the sleeves and not due to a perceived experience of prejudice (which it was determined by the judge that in the course of the tribunal did not occur in this incident).

Yes, you're at least partly right and it is something of a current debate! Bu it's also the case that the meta debate is all fine and well (and has truth to it, my other half is always on about it!) but, practically, it doesn't matter because the infection control policy is nevertheless in place.

This doctor indeed said she knew as much, but disagreed on where counted as clinical area. This whole thing is simply because she didn't like being pulled up and got a bit shouty when the director of nursing held her to the same standards as the rest of the staff. What a waste of everyone's time.
Original post by gjd800
Yes, you're at least partly right and it is something of a current debate! Bu it's also the case that the meta debate is all fine and well (and has truth to it, my other half is always on about it!) but, practically, it doesn't matter because the infection control policy is nevertheless in place.
This doctor indeed said she knew as much, but disagreed on where counted as clinical area. This whole thing is simply because she didn't like being pulled up and got a bit shouty when the director of nursing held her to the same standards as the rest of the staff. What a waste of everyone's time.

Yeah the situation does seem to have been easily avoidable with perhaps better signage and some better interpersonal communication! And it seems unlikely they would have changed this policy across the NHS on the basis of this case alone (or if they felt there was any chance there was discrimination at play that they would have let it go to court anyway - I suspect they would have tried to settle out of court if the trust lawyers felt there was a strong case for that).
Original post by artful_lounger
I think I read there's apparently somewhat limited evidence base for this policy?

Skimming through some articles the concept seems to be based on evidence that white coats when not regularly laundered at high temperature like scrubs can harbour bacteria in the sleeves which then may be passed on to a patient. I can't see any immediately that compare economically similar regions with or without this policy (e.g. comparing a UK hospital to one in the EU without that policy, or potentially in the US) to see if those not using it see higher rates of nosocomial infections than those that do though.

Also it seems to be assumed that the correlation is due to the length of the sleeves and not the frequency of laundering - as a number of studies seemed to indicate that those when given the option between the two that maintain a bare below elbows dress are more frequent in laundering and also more likely to demonstrate proper handwashing technique. I suppose it's possible then that even if the bare below elbows policy leads to improved outcomes it may not be due to the sleeves so much as putting workers in mind of the hygiene of their hands and lower arms.

There might be some papers out there that did look at those other bits though as I didn't really look that much into it and it seems like something that is a bit of a hot button topic so it would be surprising if there wasn't much follow up on those matters!



In any event the article in question seems to have come to the conclusion that the whole thing was more predicated around confusion of where clinical vs non-clinical areas are due to poor signage, although the lawsuit was due to the doctor seeming to misinterpret this as a religiously motivated prejudice. So probably largely avoidable with better signage and communication. The headline is misleading as it implies it was due to the sleeves and not due to a perceived experience of prejudice (which it was determined by the judge that in the course of the tribunal did not occur in this incident).


Yeah it’s an attention grabbing headline from the metro I guess.
Why not have longs gloves that easily be sterilised on the go?
(edited 3 weeks ago)

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