EU Constitution - yay or nay

hmm not immediately but give it 10, 20, 30 years then you'd start seeing the erosion of democracy.

I don't have to wait - I'm seeing the erosion of democracy right around the globe now.

meh well vote conservative then

meh well vote conservative then

So you are saying you don't have conservative views?

Why? So they can support it even further?

that was kind of what i was pointing out when he objected to centralisation of power.

At the risk of making the same point twice in the same afternoon, I really don't think libertarianism in confined to either "left wing" or "right wing".

no.

How would you class your views then?

nah they are the only of the 3 parties
1) against the constitution
2) against the euro
3) for locally elected police chiefs

etc.

how is this a point of libertarianism?.

you implied that it was incompatible to be both left wing and against greater centralisation.

They're also one of the three main political parties who are ALL in favour of neo-liberalism, ie the globalisation of economic power.

To have political power on the local level and economic power on the global level is always going to be fundamentally anti-democratic as corporations get so powerful they are able to bully democratic governments into submission.

I'm in favour of political AND economic power being held at the local level. But, arguably, if economic power is going to be global, then it is better that political power is too, so that democracy can be maintained.

All or nothing.

thats generally one of the points of left wing political ideology, so yes i would say its pretty incompatible. and libertarianism is right-wing in terms of political economics and the state.

But, arguably, if economic power is going to be global, then it is better that political power is too, so that democracy can be maintained.

All or nothing.

bully, or pay?

then we simply have an issue of definitions.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secF1.html#secf11

economic power is nothing without political power. political power reigns supreme. dont forget that corporations are composed of individuals subject to the laws the same as the rest of us. in that sense they can never threaten the primacy of a parliament.

Flawed. When corporations can travel the globe, playing local governments off each other to get them to repeal yet more legislation concerning wages, working conditions, environmental standards, etc, that is corporations overrunning democracy. The result is that those companies are powerful enough to see themselves as above the law, and even if they were ever called in on it, they could simply move to another country, leaving a wrecked economy in their wake.