Leeds Met will not charge £9000, but £8,500 fees

Original post by llys

True, but I also read somewhere that Oxbridge are actually less affected by the cuts than other universities (so they would need less income from tuition fees to make up for the cuts). I'll try to find a link.

Edit: England's newer universities face biggest cuts as teaching budgets slashed

(I'm not sure though if they are confusing research funding and teaching funding in this article - Oxford may well have more research funding but I thought that research funding cannot normally be used to plug holes in teaching funding (depending on the fund).)

have they factors things in like Endowment, as oxford gets about £3billion a year
where leeds met is not even a million

endowment is a massive thing, a few of the colleges in the USA get some much they could pay for everyone fees, but don't :p:

Reply 22

L i b

19

Original post by Diffusion

I laughed. Then I cried.

So I suppose that's the Coalition's claim that universities can only charge above £6000 in exceptional circumstances blown out of the water then eh.

Not in the least - because no-one has allowed them to do this.

Indeed, I don't think they'd even be making these sorts of announcements if they thought they could get away with it. They know fine well that charging fees of this amount is going to put students off. What they do want, however, is to irritate the government into giving them more cash.

Original post by robinson999

have they factors things in like Endowment, as oxford gets about £3billion a year
where leeds met is not even a million

endowment is a massive thing, a few of the colleges in the USA get some much they could pay for everyone fees, but don't :p:

You don't understand what an endowment is.

An endowment in the billions is unusual - and is restricted to Oxford and Cambridge. I believe the third largest endowment of a university in the UK is Edinburgh with around £200 million.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 23

WelshBluebird

16

Original post by L i b

Not in the least - because no-one has allowed them to do this.

Indeed, I don't think they'd even be making these sorts of announcements if they thought they could get away with it. They know fine well that charging fees of this amount is going to put students off. What they do want, however, is to irritate the government into giving them more cash.

Well it isn't going to change unless the government makes a huge U-turn. They government (and the office of fair trading) have said that the only criteria to be able to charge £9k is that the university does things to widen access. What the hell that means, **** knows, and it is something so vague that they can essentially mess with some figures and say "look, we are".

And I seriously doubt universities would be making these announcments, only to backtrack later on.

Reply 24

llys

Original post by robinson999

have they factors things in like Endowment, as oxford gets about £3billion a year
where leeds met is not even a million

endowment is a massive thing, a few of the colleges in the USA get some much they could pay for everyone fees, but don't :p:

Oh yes, I forgot about this.

Reply 25

hypocriticaljap

2

It is believed that Trinity College Cambridge alone is the fourth wealthiest landowner in the UK behind the Crown Estate, the National Trust and the Church of England.
In 2005 it was reported the college earned more than £20 million in rent from its properties.
Indeed it a "proud" boast that it could educate its undergraduates for free from such income and still make money.

Reply 26

wdywuk

9

Original post by nexttime

So you think such unis as Leeds Met are genuinely meeting the cost of what they have lost in government funding? As opposed to trying to save face against other unis and get a bit more cash? (not saying you're wrong, just wondering. We'd need pretty detailed financial breakdowns in order to tell definitively)

I could give you the exact figures if you wanted them! We currently get just over £7k per student from fees plus Band B funding. THere was also various reports out last week showing how much better off unis would be in a few years time....

One thing that really upset the apple cart is if the rumored changes in capped numbers comes into play.

Reply 27

The Leeds Met financial statement makes for interesting reading They got £79.6million in government funding and £51.5million in tuition fees and educational contracts in 2008 for 31,235 undergraduate students. They would have to be losing every penny of their government funding for this to be close to being a move to break even (assuming they were charging the maximum they could from undergrads before - their income average only about £1600 per student per year for some reason).

Original post by wdywuk

I could give you the exact figures if you wanted them! We currently get just over £7k per student from fees plus Band B funding. THere was also various reports out last week showing how much better off unis would be in a few years time....

One thing that really upset the apple cart is if the rumored changes in capped numbers comes into play.

Ah you can give exact figures? That would be very progressive to this thread! How much government funding are you losing? Are the figures for 2008 representative of now? Thank you.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 28

WhatTheFunk

Original post by L i b

You don't understand what an endowment is.

An endowment in the billions is unusual - and is restricted to Oxford and Cambridge. I believe the third largest endowment of a university in the UK is Edinburgh with around £200 million.

i know in the UK to have a endowment that high is rare, and may only be allowed allowed to paid it in certain way, or invest

Reply 29

llys

Original post by L i b

Not in the least - because no-one has allowed them to do this.

That's true. I do wonder how many of those wanting to charge more than 6k will be allowed to do so... and if some will, why others won't...

They know fine well that charging fees of this amount is going to put students off.

I don't really think the difference between 6k, 7.5k and 9k is going to put students off. Especially if the university is bad enough. In that case it knows full well that its students won't ever have to repay the loan, and its students will eventually figure that out also.

What they do want, however, is to irritate the government into giving them more cash.

I don't think so. Or if they are, then it's going to backfire, because if this level of fees is accepted, the government has already said that it is going to slash funding some more to find money for the student loans. I think (like someone else said) that universities are probably already taking this into consideration in their fee estimates.

Reply 30

Original post by Philosopher-of-sorts

But Oxford did already lose a significant amount on each domestic/EU undergrad. "We also calculate the cost of educating an undergraduate at Oxford to be in the region of £16,000 a year" So maintaining current funding wouldn't really be sufficient anyway.

Yes they do say that sort of thing all the time, and yet their financial statements don't show any losses! I think they only make a loss in the sense that they have to rely on donations to keep standards up, not an unsustainable 'loss' in real terms.

Reply 31

wdywuk

9

Original post by nexttime

Ah you can give exact figures? That would be very progressive to this thread! How much government funding are you losing? Are the figures for 2008 representative of now? Thank you.

That's the problem, We know what Band B funding would become if the average fee was £7500, but as its likely to above this its further likely that the government will reduce teaching funding further and we may end up with next to nothing from them!

Reply 32

Original post by llys

I don't really think the difference between 6k, 7.5k and 9k is going to put students off. Especially if the university is bad enough. In that case it knows full well that its students won't ever have to repay the loan, and its students will eventually figure that out also.

I do agree with you, but it would seem figures in authority at unis do not - one of the key ways in which unis intend to 'improve access' is fee waivers for the less wealthy (despite these being covered by the student loan). Oxford intends to spend £5.16 million of this, for example.

Reply 33

wdywuk

9

Original post by nexttime

I do agree with you, but it would seem figures in authority at unis do not - one of the key ways in which unis intend to 'improve access' is fee waivers for the less wealthy (despite these being covered by the student loan). Oxford intends to spend £5.16 million of this, for example.

Remember though, if you charge £9k you only need to "give away" fee waivers of 10% of the difference between £9k and £6k ...ie £300 quid. So if you charge £9k you end up getting £8.7k net

Reply 34

llys

Original post by nexttime

The Leeds Met financial statement makes for interesting reading They got £79.6million in government funding and £51.5million in tuition fees and educational contracts in 2008 for 31,235 undergraduate students. They would have to be losing every penny of their government funding for this to be close to being a move to break even (assuming they were charging the maximum they could from undergrads before - their income average only about £1600 per student per year for some reason).

That is indeed interesting... maybe they are planning to let in some students without paying fees to meet potential "access agreements" ? They already seem to be doing something similar to this if their average tuition income per student currently is that low. If so, based on these numbers, the projected number of "free" students would have to pretty high though.

Reply 35

*Liana*

1

Original post by hypocriticaljap

It is believed that Trinity College Cambridge alone is the fourth wealthiest landowner in the UK behind the Crown Estate, the National Trust and the Church of England.
In 2005 it was reported the college earned more than £20 million in rent from its properties.
Indeed it a "proud" boast that it could educate its undergraduates for free from such income and still make money.

I am a student at Trinity and I have no idea what it does with all its money - our rents are certainly not any cheaper than the rest of the university, for example. Also, the colleges seem to be separate from departments - it doesn't matter if a college has loads of money (and most don't to be honest, Trinity and John's are an exception), that doesn't mean the university as a whole has.

Reply 36

JW92

18

A lot of degrees are Leeds Met are not worth anywhere near that kind of money. Perversely, universities like Leeds Met will probably find it easier to tick the government's accessible education boxes since it already has a more diverse student base.

Reply 37